[Closed] Lance is still the man

that's the thing with being betrayed by someone you looked up to though, kudos100, you don't just shrug and carry on - you feel aggreived.

You really thought lance won 7 TDF clean?

The mind boggles.

As soon as a sport attracts lots of money, PED's are pretty much par for the course.

Hopk1ns - Member

I guess people feel like supporting someone who is being made a scapegoat for a sport that is rotten to the core. I guess that's what money does to a sport.

Lance took it to a higher level than anyone else, bullied people who threatened him, and made himself an idol by focussing on never having a +ve test.

The sport was rotten, but he took it way beyond anyone else.

wrecker, how am I on any bandwagon? Is this incorrect?:

different people respond differently to doping, different racers doped differently, LA probably had the "best" doping going etc...

He is not inspirational, lots of people beat cancer.
He is not a scapegoat, others cheated and are / will be caught.

Get over it.

If he was your "hero" you will just have to realise that you were misled, like a lot of other people.

Im amazed that anyone believed he could do 7 wins without cheating, thats a bit naive.

He doesn't stop being inspirational for this IMO.

I suppose not... if you can see past his cynical use of cancer (I don't mean his own) for his own self-enrichment

http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/05/31/exclusive-interview-matthew-wilson-greenedge/

How about taking inspiration from Matty Wilson then? He survived cancer, won a national championship, was viewed as an invaluable domestique for his teams and has never been accused of doping

Inspiration?

LeMond won a tour got shot almost died returned and won twice more. His family and his business got threatened by Lance/Trek but he carried on regardless.

Let's be honest in road cycling the main 'skill' is just being mega mega mega fit (very simplistic I know but essentially true)

Fabian Cancellara wants a word with you about this.

Lance was still first on the ground in seven tours. I am impressed.

I'm with alex222 - LeMond is a far better role model. Lance made sure his business was buried.

He survived cancer and went on to become a top athlete. Drug fuelled or not he achieved far more in life than virtually anyone here.

So your idea of achieving something in life is by cheating and doing it dishonestly then?

I was never a fan of his anyway, or the entire Discovery team. Everything was always so easy for them at the Tour.
Always remember Hincapie winning a mountain stage after dropping all his companions (including some decent climbers)

Lance is nothing but a conman, and as well know, conmen always think they're untouchable.

Good riddance Lance. Idiot.

Atlaz mine was not a trite statement but a question , hence the question mark 😉

*if* everyone was dopiing then he still won/beat them on an even playing field..

he better have some cash squirrelled away as lots of people are going to be after it!

rootes1 - Member

*if* everyone was dopiing then he still won/beat them on an even playing field..

AS above, how was it an even playing field?

^ if everyone was doping then surely even? - bit like everyone having carbon wheels.

Whether lance did or didn't most people are missing the point. This is about the sports persecution of one person and is wrong.

Bit carry on hating and missing the point

LOL

Yes USADA exists simply to get LA they will be closing next week now they have their man
YE HA

Imagine if the next rider could have afforded Dr Ferrari's skills as much as Laarrrnce and co.

Trimix - Member
He is not inspirational, lots of people beat cancer.
He is not a scapegoat, others cheated and are / will be caught.

Get over it.

If he was your "hero" you will just have to realise that you were misled, like a lot of other people.

Well, the person seeking inspiration is the only one that can say whether he is inspirational or not.

LA put himself on the pedestal and has further to fall so he only has himself to blame for appearing to be made a scapegoat.

Even in full knowledge of what has now been revealed (and a lot of people would have had the savvy to know that LA was likely to have been doping as much or even more than other riders), to some LA may still be a hero despite your assertions.

Im amazed that anyone believed he could do 7 wins without cheating, thats a bit naive.

Are you suggesting Eddy Merckx may have been a cheat?

.

easygirl - Member
Amazing cyclist, inspiration to millions
Scapegoat of the century

That's is soooooo spot on, sums it all up really.

All the bs spouted by most of the stw massif, who if they were in a similar position they would all be EPOd up to the eyeballs. It get so tiresome listening to most of you.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, never been so apt than now. The Robert Millar piece about it so spot on.

if you want to look up to a cheating, lying, bullying, manipulative, fraudulent, arrogant criminal, and see these personality traits as inspirational, then good luck to you.

whether other people did it too, whether other people were involved, it doesn't excuse what he did.

Are you suggesting Eddy Merckx may have been a cheat?

[i]Let he who is without sin cast the first stone[/i]

I've never taken drugs to attain my mediocre Strava times.

Where do I start lobbing?

I'm ready.

[img] [/img]

Are you suggesting Eddy Merckx may have been a cheat?

Is anyone suggesting Eddy was clean? I honestly don't know but didn't think he was part of a clean era..

psling, I think you make a good point about people finding inspiration anywhere they want to - flaws or not, people are often inspired by certain aspects of character alone, and no-one is saying Lance should be made a saint )

As a cyclist however, I have little to no respect for Lance, level field arguments or anything else considered. He had some things going for him on a bike but nothing that isn't found in clean, honourable riders and racers. Same for all the others that dope - they choose to step over that line, mass participation does not make it excusable. Racing should have a basis in sportsmanship whether it's a job/career or not, and cycling is about more than just racing at the top level. Call me idealist but who goes into racing at that level without conbsidering that dope will raise it's head?

Show me someone who walked away from a pro career rather than dope, or finished as a tired-out low-pack clean rider in a Grand Tour and I'll show you someone I have a lot of respect for.

bit like everyone having carbon wheels.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/13/doping-cycling-level-playing-field-fallacy ]Nothing like that really.[/url]

He doesn't stop being inspirational for this IMO.

no, but sending a text message to a woman dining alone in a restaurant saying "run, dont walk" might take the shine off the halo a little...

edit:

Show me someone who walked away from a pro career rather than dope

I assume youre referring to Scott Mercier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514

Are you suggesting Eddy Merckx may have been a cheat?

Well he tested positive 3 times and got kicked off the Giro

...and [url= http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/riders/2003/interviews/?id=ferrari03b#equipe ]Eddy introduced Dr Ferrari to Lance[/url]

Are you suggesting Eddy Merckx may have been a cheat?

Is anyone suggesting Eddy was clean? I honestly don't know but didn't think he was part of a clean era..

when merckx started there were no rules in place about doping and some riders would use all sorts of combinations of amphetamines, cocaine, painkillers and even heroin to keep themselves going. Tragic cases like Tommy Simpson dying on Mont Ventoux led to the introduction of drugs laws and eventually testing.
EPO only started in the 80's, initially with riders doping themselves and guessing what they needed before enlisting doctors like ferrari and puerto for programmes. The LA case is even more extreme than most due to the scale of the organisation and coercion that took place and his massive media persona turning him into one of the biggest sports stars on the planet and thus making him 'untouchable'

Merckx in all likelihood didn't ride clean, neither did Indurain (my boyhood hero).

legalise the drugs then nobody can cheat!

Lance is still one of my hero's.

Your hero's what? You've still not told us who your hero is.

Sorry, cheap shot

when merckx started there were no rules in place about doping

not sure about that. He turned pro in 65* and first tested positive in 69

* The same time anti doping laws started in France

[i]This is about the sports persecution of one person and is wrong.[/i]

Simeoni?

Lance is still one of my hero's.

He was never one of mine and Indurain isn't anymore

Tragic cases like Tommy Simpson dying on Mont Ventoux led to the introduction of drugs laws and eventually testing.

nope, Laws passed in 1965, testing began in the tdf in 1966 and tommy died in 1967

I assume youre referring to Scott Mercier.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19930514
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Not in person, but I'll read that, thanks.

RE Eddy, I'd read + been told he wasn't on just water as per most top racers, but didn't know the real details. I love the old pics of that era and the stories of epic breaks, the style, but I'm not sure what I think about doping in the USPS way compared to the Simpson/Merckx days. That's another pub debate.

This is about the sports persecution of one person and is wrong.

Simeoni?

Bassons? Which 'one person'? 🙂

@trickydisco

you're right. I knew he was on the bubble of the anti-doping rules coming in, But they were laughable for the first few years

there's a really interesting bike show podcast from some point in the last year or two that went through the history of doping from the 1950's through to the present day and epo.

There's a big difference between the doping of the pre-EPO era and the stuff that happened post-EPO, especially once the likes of Armstrong and Bruyneel industrialised the process. Both are wrong, but the former made riders feel much better, whereas the latter made riders much better.

Scott Mercier.

Respect. A wiser and braver man than many in that messed-up sport.

Im amazed that anyone believed he could do 7 wins without cheating, thats a bit naive.

Surely if that's your attitude then every single rider must be doped? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Lance trained harder for the tour than any other rider. Even doped up to the eyeballs he was still out there scouting the mountain stages day after day in the snow. Ullrich was at home just hoping the dope would work!

I was never a fan of his anyway, or the entire Discovery team. Everything was always so easy for them at the Tour.
Always remember Hincapie winning a mountain stage after dropping all his companions (including some decent climbers)

Lance is nothing but a conman, and as well know, conmen always think they're untouchable.

Good riddance Lance. Idiot.

You realise that Hincapie was one of those pointing the finger at Lance and using his testimony as a way to admonish himself of any wrongdoing?

"Yes I doped, but a bigger boy made me do it" - corking defence. I liked him, but to be honest he went down a good chunk in my estimation for that.

Lance has been destroyed because his Livestrong brand was becoming too powerful and influencing mainstream consumers.

The mainstream health message is corporate controlled. This is a VERY powerful industry.

Why else would they go to the lengths they have to expose him?

He is a hero to me. But then I was never naiive enough to think he got his wins without drugs. I think most top athletes take drugs.

[i]Lance trained harder for the tour than any other rider[/i]

Evidence please?

[i]I think most top athletes take drugs. [/i]

I do too. But how many of them control a huge system of distribution, coercion, obfuscation, corruption, and witness intimidation, on the scale of the USPS setup? That's why he's banned for life when others get 6 months or a year or two years. Have you read the reasoned decision?

theendisnigh - Member
Lance has been destroyed because his Livestrong brand was becoming too powerful and influencing mainstream consumers.

The mainstream health message is corporate controlled. This is a VERY powerful industry.

So it was big pharma?

Gold!

Why else would they go to the lengths they have to expose him?

Because it's their job.