[Closed] Lance fessed up to Oprah

Will Lala get the same respect as Millar if he repents?
He should do.

No, he should not. Millar made his choices and paid the price, he was a doper and got caught. For some he will always be a doper and that is a fair opinion.

The difference is that in his case he didn't unduly influence other riders.
There is no evidence that he directly enforced a culture of doping, bullied other riders, ruined careers or destroyed reputations. He was not receiving millions in sponsorship or labeling himself as an all american hero.
He did not bribe officials and take legal action against anyone who questioned him. He did not lie in court to win legal cases and win damages.
He was not the biggest, most influential person in the sport, arguably all sport.
He did not win 7 TdF's and take the credit for these whilst doping.
Once caught he did not lie, he came clean, served his ban and then got on with supporting a clean sport.
He is now part of cleaning up the sport, not dragging it back down.

You should not compare the two, they are in a whole different league.

That's his way out. Point the finger at an even bigger bad guy.

It's turning into an episode of 24 🙂

Though I'd almost be happy to see Armstrong go free if his testimony brings about real change at the top of the sport.

If it helps guarantee that someone will podium at HTN do you think someone will take something?

I doubt it but one can never be sure

Of course. The mind of the cheat isn't always about winning money. Its peers looking upto you as well.

I think you might finally be there Hora.

Thing with LA is for years we have know this and it is good to see justice.
Given he is squealing like a pig on others [ allegedly] it would be interesting to drag up all his quotes about the testimony of liars and cheats is it not.

As for comparison with Milar it is not time to even consider doing this and i dont think they are comparable.

I think it was Roche whpo made a good point about how mIllar could do miore - i did this substance here this way and did this to avoid its detection using this doctor etc

There is still some Omerta going on as well - LA wont mention any riders for example but will go for the officials.

Interesting he has chosen the nuclear option - perhaps he thinks that if the UCI go down he will be seen as a good guy or perhaps its just that he wont be the only one in the firing line.

No, he should not.

You should not compare the two

, they are in a whole different league.

He was not the biggest, most influential person in the sport

Wow wrecker still defending LA eh? (in a roundabout way)

David Millar was World TT champion (taken away from him after doping) and won stages in all major tours. Not a bad palmares.

It is on Sky and Virgin but not sure of channels, 212 rings a bell. I saw it on David Walsh's Twitter feed anyway.

Same "crime", same outcome. Claiming they're in a different league is ludicrous

Any chance you could link to Millar doing anything like this?

If you think these are just the same then you realy need to work on your ability to discriminate

They are both "baddies" but they have behaved completely differently in all aspects of their life except the drug taking cheating bit [ though even here LA was systematic and coereced team mates probably anyway]

I cannot believe you can see no differences

You are free to dislike them both as cheats and not grant forgiveness or redemption but its madness to see them as the same.

Wrecker

If you cannot see the difference between the two cases you either do not really understand them or you are just not very clever.

Given the likelihood of it being the later, I see little point trying to argue the point with you.

[i]Reminds me of hitler at the end, surrounded, not many options... The game is up.
[/i]

So the press will be hoping for that suicide story?
Sounds like some here would be happy for that too.

I think of professional sports like ladders with everyone on a different rung. Some making better livings than others. If any cheater takes up a rung it stops a genuine sports person from getting on the lowest rung. Many many people have been done out of a professional career they deserved due to these weak minded "criminals". 🙁

On a slightly different note. A saying in motorsport is "If you are not cheating then you are not trying".

It is good to see a cheating being recognised but don't expect miracles. Life is one big tough competition.

For all the other careers he wrecked either by bullying riders off the team or denying clean riders a shot at the top prize he should be crucified. If he ends up bankrupt and sleeping on a park bench, tough. He's had a bloody good run at the high life at the expense of others. He is low life scum.

Whichever way you look at it, seeing a knackered rider start going at 120% on a climb and blowing the rest of the field did make entertaining viewing.

Its a shame that it was all as a result of EPO and that as the sport becomes cleaner the excitement of stages as seen in the 90's/00's is unlikely to be repeated.

I hope he does get rinsed, there will be loads of similarly bent [s]lawyers[/s] parasites waiting to take his money now and surely a lifetime of dealing with them on a daily basis is just payment for what he did.

Whichever way you look at it, seeing a knackered rider start going at 120% on a climb and blowing the rest of the field did make entertaining viewing.

God yeah, I'd rather the whole lot were on drugs than watching Sky controlling the race and shutting down any attacks.

If you cannot see the difference between the two cases you either do not really understand them or you are just not very clever.

I see little point trying to argue the point with you.

Wrecker, you're Lance's Dad, right?
He cheated methodically, deliberately and callously for years, attacking anyone who questioned him. He cheated honest athletes out of fame and livelihood. He ruined the reputation of his sport. You need to do some serious recalibration of your moral compass.

And what of the people that he destroyed with his actions? What of the clean cyclists he bullied? What of the cyclists in other teams that were deprived of their livelihood? What of the people that brought cases against him for cheating and lost (isn't the Times asking for the return of over one million dollars that they had to pay him for losing a libel case?)

I'm sorry, but this isn't just about Lance cheating his way to a $100 million bank balance.
In my mind, he stole money that should have gone to other people. So he should be treated like any criminal that [b]steals[/b] from others. And surely the sums involved would mean nothing else than a life sentence.

I think it will be an interesting few years while LA is slowly roasted in both the legal courts and the court of popular opinion.

He's got a lot of people wanting their pound of flesh (or Millions of Dollars in damages) not just us fair weather interweb watchers who've suddenly come over all indignant...

The people who he intimidated and ran out of the cycling, Sponsors who's name he's tarnished by association, and probably some of those involved with Livestrong who've attempted to do good work, only to find the whole thing is essentially built on the extended, false reputation of a lying bully.

I reckon there will have to be a renaming of Livestrong, and steps taken to distance themselves from their founder at the very least, but more likely is that the foundation will be wound up and pass it's remaining assets out to other organisations...

Lance's demise won't be a quick process, and an appearance on Oprah sure as shit will not get him reinstated as "Saint Lance"...

I really would like him to just dissappear from view now TBH...
Do we need to hear anything more from him publicly?
I think quietly stepping out of the limelight and letting cycling "clean house" would be better. He's already managed to take a bit of the shine off of the best summer for British Cycling simply through the timing of the USADA publications and his association with the sport.

Will Lala get the same respect as Millar if he repents?
He should do.

Bollox!!

Millar is no saint, and I'm sure he'll never be able to completely remove the blot from his name, but I doubt there are many stronger anti-doping advocates, simply because he is living proof that in the long term it does not benefit the athlete either professionally or personally.

LaLa's Doping has some minor parallels to Millar's, but what went with LaLa was a Grand conspiracy, with intimidation and coersive tactics that many dictators would be proud of...
LaLA did it on a bigger scale for longer and lied through his teeth long after it was done to preserve the lie and the fortune it built.

Both millar and armstrong are cheats.
But armstrong is also a vindictive bully and a drug pusher.

The big difference between Millar and Armstrong is that David cares about the sport that gave him so much, Lance only cares about Lance and will do whatever it takes to keep Lance happy no matter what the cost to the sport of cycling or other people.

franksinatra - Member
He was not the biggest, most influential person in the sport, arguably all sport.

Er, no.
In road cycling perhaps, but as a very keen sports person I do not see his influence in many other sports. I think you are overestimating the impact of the dope pedalling peddler.

@Wrecker - both are despicable individuals for cheating, but only one has gone on to wreck the lives and careers of others to protect themselves.

Its on Discovery HD - Sky channel 520 & Virgin TV Channel 214 at 2AM Friday 18th Jan
Non HD channels are 536 (Sky) & 212 (Virgin)
Its also repeated on the same channels at 8.00pm Friday 18th Jan & 6.30PM on Saturday 19th.

It is was reported that he had personal phone numbers for President Obama, Bush and Clinton. Not trying to argue he was the most influential sportsman, perhaps that is too much, but he certainly wielded some power.

Millar is no saint, and I'm sure he'll never be able to completely remove the blot from his name, but I doubt there are many stronger anti-doping advocates, simply because he [s]is living proof that in the long term it does not benefit the athlete either professionally or personally.[/s] got caught

Both millar and armstrong are cheats.
But armstrong is also a vindictive bully and a drug pusher.

That's it in a nutshell.

Both millar and armstrong are cheats.

That may be true but they is well funny when they do the world war II pilots sketch. Surely we can cut them some slack for that?

The 'omerta' was in effect long before LA came along.

The venom spewed forward by some on this forum is laughable, the peleton has always turned on those who have tried to speak out.
Other doped professionals cheated methodically, deliberately and callously before LA started winning.

The hysteria around this one man is a joke, the peleton doped before he arrived and there are still riders failing dope tests now....but as long as big, bad Lance is nailed to the wall we can all happily turn a blind eye to the facts right?
Dr Ferrari was issuing EPO to riders before LA won his first tour, cross country skiers (Finland i believe?) were the first to be involved in blood transfusions for performance gains and Europe was so far ahead of the Yanks with regard to doping in cycling that it beggars belief....read 'the death of Marco Pantani'....doping in Italian cycling was endemic and virtually state sponsored.

Interestingly Ferrari claims he was introduced to LA by Eddie Merckx, that gives you some idea of how dirty this whole sport is and how far back the systematic and medically supervised use of PEDs goes....when police raided the home of Dr Fuentes they found steroids, blood products, machines to transfuse and a list of cyclists who were 'working' with this doctor.

To suggest LA is THE bad guy in cycling is to bury ones head in the sand....there are many more like him, he didnt have access to any secret potions, he took the same drugs they all took....his misfortune if you like is to have won the TdF so many times and to have the spot light on him....

....what about the pros who doped to the extent LA did but didnt respond in the same way?....some of them made a very comfortable living from cycling and have largely passed under the radar because they never won a Grand Tour, i hope the same vilification finds it way to them....perhaps we'll see some middle of the road washed up pros dragged to court because of their doping?....probably not because LA has become the bogey man that everybody wants to get at the moment.

I like his attitude to this, he could have kept quiet, moved out of the US and never had to answer to anybody but instead he is going to name and shame all the way through the highest levels in cycling....its about time everybody involved, the directuer sportifs, the team owners, the doctors, the UCI etc all got a good kicking too.

blood innit

Some people need to calm down. It's only road biking, not real biking or owt.

😉

[i]his misfortune if you like is to have won the TdF so many times and to have the spot light on him....[/i]

He tried to ruin people. Ask Emma O'Reilly whether she thinks he's the same as any other doper, but for a bit more success. You can't just put aside the fact that Lance, more than pretty much anyone else, has been on the offensive in terms of shutting up his critics in some of the harshest ways.

[i] but instead he is going to name and shame all the way through the highest levels in cycling.[/i]

Or he could be adopting the penitito model so beloved of mafia trials. Show remorse while obfuscating the story in a mish-mash of implicating new and old people and confusing the story enough that we'll still never really know everything that went on.

We'll see.

I like his attitude to this, he could have kept quiet, moved out of the US and never had to answer to anybody

I've just spat my lunch out in a fit of coughing.

Lance Armstrong will admit to some cheating, because his position has become untenable. Everyody just knows he has been lying about not doping. Right now he is in limbo, famous but a non-person. To become somebody again, he has to admit at least a little bit of what he did

He should have gone into politics, that way he could continue his deception and never be caught

blood innit

Isn't it?

I like his attitude to this, he could have kept quiet, moved out of the US and never had to answer to anybody but instead he is going to name and shame all the way through the highest levels in cycling.

You seem to be somewhat confused about his motivation for this "admission". He's not doing it for anything other than his own benefit.

Have to admit to being a little out of touch with all this but has he actually been tested positive now if not is it not all hearsay? has some actual physical proof come to light?
Not trolling its a genuine question I always thought actual proof was req for someone to be guilty
Does having a spliff and a beer after a ride constitute doping?
G

I know his actions arent altruistic, that isnt how the man operates.

I'd have just taken the money and gone to live outside of the US but then i'm Mr Average compared to the typical pro sports person, i dont have their Ego so would be very happy with a quiet life and millions in the bank and to hell with the doping conviction...he wants to be rehabilitated as a celebrity however so he is deciding to do this instead.
The man has balls thats for sure.

[i]Not trolling its a genuine question I always thought actual proof was req for someone to be guilty[/i]

Why? If twenty people see you steal a car, but you manage not to leave fingerprints, that doesn't make you innocent. Witness testimony is not the same as hearsay (which is more like "I heard X say that Y did it")

The man has balls thats for sure.

😀

That was a good one right?!

Is anyone deliberately planning on not watching this farce of an interview like me? I never would say that this cheat was a hero to me but I carried a lot of respect for him from his on road exploits and, greater for me, the cancer work (something that I, like many, have been impacted by). It's actually this side of it that has disappointed me the most, how can anyone going through that battle carry any sort of hope or inspiration from this lying, bullying PoS.

No real point to this post, just having my say.

wrecker - Member

Millar is no saint, and I'm sure he'll never be able to completely remove the blot from his name, but I doubt there are many stronger anti-doping advocates, simply because he [/s]is living proof that in the long term it does not benefit the athlete either professionally or personally[s] got caught

Correct me if I'm wrong but Millar wasn't caught doping. The police found 2 empty EPO ampules in his bedroom. There was no evidence that they were his or that he had used them. He didn't fail a blood test either, and wouldn't have because they were months old and he hadn't reused.

Millar could have quite easily claimed they were soemone elses etc etc and that he was clean. In all likely hood he would have suceeded if he had wanted to take this route. [u]BUT[/u] he chose not to, he came clean very much to his own detriment.

I'm not saying Millar is a Saint but he sure as hell cannot be comapred to Lance!

but has he actually been tested positive now

Twice, I believe

Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers. Doesn't really compensate for their gullibilty in the first place but hey-ho that's human nature I suppose.

He didn't fail a blood test either

Actually having thought about it I can sort of see Wreckers point to a certain extent;

"A cheat is a cheat" - It's a pretty black and white way of looking at it, but if one cheat can find some degree of "redemption" then it follows that another should be able to also...

Millar will always have the doping episode hanging over whatever else may achieve. I think the true measure of anyone involved in the sort of activities that both men have been is how they then conduct themselves in the aftermath. If they can manage to follow the negative impact they've had on the sport and people involved with something positive.

Some would say that Millar has acquitted himself well over the last 6 years or so, but then his was a "shorter road" to track back over than LaLa's; fewer Victims, less money involved, not quite the same public profile (outside of cycling) as Lance...

LaLa has close to a decade of "false dominance" over the sport to make up for, as well as various individuals lives and careers irrepairably damaged by his actions.

TBH If he can rebuild anything like half the reputation that Millar has Scraped together he'll be doing very well.

Perhaps there is a danger of everyone with a twitter account or STW login "Judging" him before the whole story is finished, just like Millar he could still manage to make amends. But that is probably an even bigger task than winning 7 TDFs clean would have been and I don't think there is any performance enhancing substance or shortcut available for the task, Oprah certainly isn't one...

Correct me if I'm wrong but Millar wasn't caught doping. The police found 2 empty EPO ampules in his bedroom. There was no evidence that they were his or that he had used them. He didn't fail a blood test either, and wouldn't have because they were months old and he hadn't reused.

Millar could have quite easily claimed they were soemone elses etc etc and that he was clean. In all likely hood he would have suceeded if he had wanted to take this route. BUT he chose not to, he came clean very much to his own detriment.

You are correct, it was more that he gave in to the pressure of questioning and heavy leaning from the French Police I think...

[I]...Millar eventually confessed to police on 24 June 2004. He admitted using EPO in 2001 and 2003. He blamed it on stress, in particular losing the prologue, the opening time-trial, in the 2003 Tour, and being beaten by Jan Ullrich in the 2001 world time trial championship. Under cycling rules a confession equates to a positive test. British Cycling suspended him for two years in August 2004. He was disqualified as 2003 world time trial champion, fined CHF2,000 '(approx. €1250)', and disqualified from the 2003 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré and 2001 Vuelta a España. Cofidis fired him and dropped out of racing while it investigated other team members....[/I]

[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Millar#Doping [/url]

That pretty much summarizes it...

For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions [b][i][u]for life[/u][/i][/b].

It then makes that transitional moment where you decide to dope a very clear cut choice with no leeway.

In addition you are given a really good kicking by blokes holding billiard balls inside socks.

Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers. Doesn't really compensate for their gullibilty in the first place but hey-ho that's human nature I suppose.

I think these fell into two camps though, Those that would not believe and those that wanted evidence.

I sat on the fence until the evidence came out. I really wanted to see multiple positive tests. I was not going to label him a cheat on the basis he won more than anyone else.

I wonder how he'd fare if his samples were tested now as LAs were?
I'm not pro or ant lance, just pointing out that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.

Well they'd find EPO. As he already admitted to. In print. On TV. On radio. It's quite clear his admission to police was down to them putting pressure on and it's hard to say if he'd have confessed if they hadn't raided his home after arresting him and found the vials.

Again though, he's not QUITE the same as Lance despite being a cheat.

I very much doubt that LA gave any evidence under oath to the Grand Jury, but if he did and now has changed his story, a perjury charge will be forthcoming.

Does he not escape the perjury charge by courtesy of it being outside the US statute of limitations?

I suspect with LA he's just taking down the big guys with him. They'll sink without a trace. LA will have a new book out shortly, presumably he's been keeping quiet for a bit whilst he jots down a few notes about his' crimes'. Accountant will have worked out the money he is likely to owe plaintiffs and how much he has at the moment and he'll have enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life.

And to be frank, as others have said, if he does have one redeeming benefit then we might get a serious root-and-branch overhaul of the sport (or even sports).

And them DM might be able to name and shame a few people himself on the way to redemption...