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For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions for life.It then makes that transitional moment where you decide to dope a very clear cut choice with no leeway.
In addition you are given a really good kicking by blokes holding billiard balls inside socks.
Sadly you are not the UCI Hora...
Has much changed withing the UCI since September?
Ultimately the whole affair highlights the seismic failures/corruption of the sports governing body IMO...
I said it before and i'll say it again as a body tasked with both promoting and policing cycling the UCI have proven they cannot be trusted to do both. So I'll vote for Hora and his mates from the billiard hall as the new incorruptible governing body of cycling, can I propose you change the name to [I]"The League of cycling Justice"[/I]...
oh and apparently
The interview is set to air Thursday at 9pm eastern time in the US on the Oprah Winfrey Network and will be [U]streamed live internationally on Oprah.com.[/U]
from [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jan/14/lance-armstrong-livestrong-sorry-emotional-meeting ]Here[/url], the guardian seem to be lapping this up...
Anything from the Mail yet? I can't imagine they'd let this one slide by...
Cyclist in performance enhancing products use shocker 😯
Come on STW’ers it was one the worst kept secret in cycling; riders using performance enhancing products.
The real issue is that LA won lots of races/events exploiting the many loopholes in the very amateurish drugs testing programmes whilst being support by the cycling establishment; then sponsors found religion and have become evangelical about drug free sport entertainment.
Irrespective of what other think, LA is still a hero in my eyes; he survived cancer, setup one of the best cancer charities in the world and in a level professional cycling playing field won TdFs 7 times.
Irrespective of what other think, LA is still a hero in my eyes; he survived cancer, setup one of the best cancer charities in the world and in a level professional cycling playing field won TdFs 7 times.
Troll is a bit too obvious, but no doubt some will still bite. 🙂
(please say you weren't serious?!)
Where do you reside Kona? The Rampton Physiatric wing?
Surely your Internet usage is restricted?
I'm not pro or ant lance, just pointing out that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat
Not sure anyone is denying that millar is a cheat just simply pointing out that you can have degrees of cheating from bending the rules to bribing the officials [ all cheating so all the same eh?]
Your view of either good or bad is simplistic.
Take theft
Someone steals some food for their hungry baby which is the same as stealing someone bikes for heroin as they are both stealing.
If you cannot see this huge area of grey you are going to struggle in life.
I assume speeding at 76 on an empty motorway is the same as doing 76 past a school at home time as they are both speeding
International Richard - MemberHe ruined the reputation of his sport.
No he didn't- how does one man do that? It took almost every part of his sport working together to bring it to where it is now.
I totally understand why people will want to make Lance the boss level of drugs in cycling- the whole industry's got a vested interest in pretending it's so, from fans to the UCI. But there's no truth in it and I think everyone knows that really.
Anyone good with photoshop?
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He was from alone in doing this and it cannot all be blamed on him
Anyone good with photoshop?
Sure what part of her body do you want his hands to be cupping?
I dislike both Millar and Armstong in equal measures, the former for being a cheat and sickening hypocrite, the latter for the many many reasons already stated.
What I will say however is that in grassing up everyone else involved (regardless of his motivation for doing so), Lance will do more for Anti Doping than that Weasel Millar ever has. Its something that Millar, if he was serious about anti doping, should have done years ago.
International Richard - Member
He ruined the reputation of his sport.
Northwind - MemberNo he didn't- how does one man do that? It took almost every part of his sport working together to bring it to where it is now.
He ruined it by bringing the sport to the masses consciousness and representing a role model, then cheating beyond all belief. We all are into cycling and can cite story after hyperlink but the average joe public has limited knowledge about cycling other than 'lance Armstrong, what a hero'. Now ask the masses what their opinion of the tdf and it'll be met with 'they are all at it' load of sh!t etc etc
This is why imo he has ruined the sport.... No?
(please say you weren't serious?!)
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance, I could take a full on cocktail of whatever and still not be able to win a stage of the TdF.
He ruined it by bringing the sport to the masses consciousnes
He only did that for America, maybe a little bit in other English speaking countries.
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field
There's certainly plenty of accusations that LA [to a certain extent] controlled who could and who couldn't have EPO in his team.
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field
Why do people keep trotting out this line even though the USADA report (among other things) show clearly that this just isn't true? I don't get it. It's like wearing ignorance like a badge.
Sorry but Millar and Lala are miles apart.
Millar cheated, got caught and held his hands up to it.
Armstrong cheated, pressured large numbers of other riders in to cheating, crushed anyone who might try and question his 'innocence' and generally acted like a bully to everyone while making a large fortune off the back it all.
The famous Paul Kimmage confrontation gives an insight in to how thoroughly unpleasant the bloke is.
What I will say however is that in grassing up everyone else involved (regardless of his motivation for doing so), Lance will do more for Anti Doping than that Weasel Millar ever has. Its something that Millar, if he was serious about anti doping, should have done years ago.
LA will only do this to try and save his sorry hide, not for any love of the sport, guilt or compassion for what he did.
International Richard - MemberNow ask the masses what their opinion of the tdf and it'll be met with 'they are all at it' load of sh!t etc etc
And they'd be right. Public opinion in based on fact shocker.
The attitude seems to be that it's alright for a sport to be dirty, as long as the public don't know? And that if it becomes known, it's the fault of one person not the sport?
Wonder what this is gonna do to Discovery Communications share price?! Funny how they were one of the major team sponsors and they co-own the Oprah Winfrey Channel.
LA's dad walked out on his Mother didn't he? I know to a degree we are a product of our up bringing but does nature also play a part? Alittle personal but you've got to think- where does his mindset come from.
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field
1) if it was true it would only be so amongst dopers, not everyone doped. Didn't the retrospective analysis of samples from '99 (which identified several connected to LA) give a doping rate of approx 9%?
2) its not true. Different people react differently to PEDs, and different people (with more $$$) would have access to better PEDS and more sophisticated regimes.
This argument has been comprehensively dismissed ad nauseum in numerous LA threads on here and the references contained within.
http://fraudbytes.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/lance-armstrong-investigation-expert.html
Ashenden goes on to explain the tests that were conducted in 2005 on 1999 Tour de France riders when better EPO tests came out. At the time, 87 samples were tested from 1999 and 13 of them were positive, meaning they showed EPO was in the urine of Tour riders. Of the 13 positives, almost half (6), turned out to be Lance's urine.
[url= http://www.happyplace.com/20355/bingo-game-for-lance-armstrongs-interview-with-oprah ]Handy game you can play.[/url]
NORTHWIND - Yes but the sport is driven by money. The sponsors want the masses to buy the sponsors products and not to be associated with lala, therefore the uneducated opinion of a none cyclist is very important. The fact the masses didn't know about it is the very reason Armstrong is more culpable than other cyclist cheats (bullying, suing, denying, hiding behind charities)
Debating on a forum is like pissing in the wind so I'm jut gonna read here on out
Ps- MSP my uk none cycling friends had never heard of tdf until Armstrong did what he did
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance,
Not everyone cheated so it was in no way a level playing field- widely is not univerally and it was cheating. In what way does some people cheating create a level playing field?
Its not a great argument its laughable
Northwind you are bing unfair just taking that quote his overall statement was reasonable and explained why he thought LA ruined it - he is not suggetsing anything like that and you must know that
Discovery Communications share price
Oprah owns it (I believe / so R2 told me).
International Richard - MemberNORTHWIND - Yes but the sport is driven by money. The sponsors want the masses to buy the sponsors products and not to be associated with lala, therefore the uneducated opinion of a none cyclist is very important. The fact the masses didn't know about it is the very reason Armstrong is more culpable than other cyclist cheats
Rubbish. The sponsors are as complicit as everyone else. If you want to get behind a clean sport, you help make it clean and keep it clean, you don't complain when it becomes known how dirty it is. Sponsors were happy to ride the wave of Lance's success.
Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers.
...taking his cue just a few posts later
hora - Member
For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions for life.
As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance, I could take a full on cocktail of whatever and still not be able to win a stage of the TdF.
That's as maybe, but you suggested he "setup one of the best cancer charities in the world" - surely nobody could make that suggestion with a straight face?
Sponsors were happy to ride the wave of Lance's success.
yes but many were sucked into to beleieving
Look at the reaction to USADA there was still many many folk defending him
Yes they wanted to ride his wave but they all ditched him sharpish once it was in the open -they did not want to be associated witha drug taking lying cheat for reasons that should be so obvious i dont need to state them
[Oprah owns it (I believe / so R2 told me).
/quote]
I think you'll find it's the Newhouse family that have controlling stake in Discovery Communications and they own half of Oprah Channel. May stand corrected though. Whoever it is, they will still have shareholders to please.
I think you'll find it's the Newhouse family that have controlling stake in Discovery Communications and they own half of Oprah Channel. May stand corrected though. Whoever it is, they will still have shareholders to please.
I knew that there was some link.
This springs to mind (I hope it's the right video as I am at work and have no speakers to listen to make sure it's the right video).
well he's hardly doing it for altruistic reasons is he? He's not trying to clean up the sport he's trying to save his arse. Besides due to his previous behaviour he's in a pretty ****ing big deficit regards the sport, he's gonna have to do some serious grassing to get into positive marks.What I will say however is that in grassing up everyone else involved [b](regardless of his motivation for doing so), Lance will do more for Anti Doping[/b] than that Weasel Millar ever has. Its something that Millar, if he was serious about anti doping, should have done years ago.
If you cannot see this huge area of grey you are going to struggle in life.
That's a bit low, even for you.
Teh Fedz are a comin' to get him now...!
is this some weird coincidence or is LA only gonna admit after the deadline has passed?The deadline for the Justice Department to join the suit is Thursday, the day Armstrong’s much anticipated interview with Oprah Winfrey is scheduled to air
The deadline for the Justice Department to join the suit is Thursday, the day Armstrong’s much anticipated interview with Oprah Winfrey is scheduled to air
Apparently the interview is going to air over two shows now (reported by Telegraph), what is the bet the incriminating part is in the second show
If you cannot see this huge area of grey you are going to struggle in life.That's a bit low, even for you.
I did not mean it as an insult, as its a shade of grey I can see why you took it that way but , ironically, its not black and white is it 😉
I merely meant if you wish to see everything as either or then you will experience some problems as life is more complex than that.
It was not meant to be some sort of personal insult so sorry - a defence you dont have btw as you meant your insult whilst getting upset about an insult- oh the ironing.
Why would we have different sentencing for the same offence if they are all the same? Why do we give time off for good behaviour i it is all the same? why do we give reduced sentences for admissions ?why do you need to accept and be contrite for your offence to get parole etc?
All cheats are not alike in the same way as all thiefs are not alike. If you cannot make this distinction you will struggle as it pretty obvious.
FWIW - a 16yr old lad i knew who raced on the euro cx scene independently, was approached, and raced against racers who were, abnormal on race days, after chatting with his dad about his options he turned his back on the sport and went into engineering.
For me, this is the real tragedy of the doping culture. talented, committed young people turning their back on the sport they love because they refuse to cheat. We've lost hundreds, if not thousands of very talented cyclists to doping.
And as Nicole Cooke so rightly said, it seems that dopers win on the way up, and again on the way down.
oh and for the record i do think millar is a cheat and his reputation is tarnished and he could have done more as was suggested in naming names etc - perhaps here still an omerta there.
I suspect he did all he could whilst still remaining a pro cyclist and is part of a team with a no doping policy and has tried to leave a better legacy for future riders and create a better future for cycling*.
Currently I could not say that about LA but i do believe in redemption However LA has a very long path to walk to achieve that.
*That is laudable but it is not as laudable as having never cheated.
LA is a narcissist. End of. His motivation for this interview is purely driven by his own ambitions. Namely.... politics. At the very least, he wants to be Governor of Texas and lets face it, the USA electorate will have short memories and rose coloured specs in 15 years time.
After that stint, it's mere bagatelle to run for the top job.
Afterall, he is eminently qualified, what with sewer rat morals...
Anyone good with photoshop?
Calling TJ - oh there he is on FB (hope you don't mind me reposting, Jeremy?)
[img] 
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Liar, liar, pants on fire
oh and for the record i do think millar is a cheat
You mean there's enablers who think he didn't? 😯
1) 'Fes up
2) Beg the "fans" for forgivness
3) Plea Bargain . . . .
4) Sorted
🙂
Northwind - Member
Rubbish. The sponsors are as complicit as everyone else
So it's everyone's fault then as you keep trying to point out. That's utter bull crap. One person made that decision to inject drugs that was mr Armstrong, not Oakley or Trek
I wondered if LA was following millars leadmodel to redemtion?
Confess to it [sih] not take any riders down with you, take down the UCI and then try and build a clean one with ex dopers in it to make sure it never happens again- perhaps with his as the lead 😯
I hope he sticks to US politics and never gets out of Texas as i dont want to see him influencing cycling
Why would we have different sentencing for the same offence if they are all the same? Why do we give time off for good behaviour i it is all the same? why do we give reduced sentences for admissions ?why do you need to accept and be contrite for your offence to get parole etc?
All cheats are not alike in the same way as all thiefs are not alike. If you cannot make this distinction you will struggle as it pretty obvious.
I'm not distinguishing too much as I don't really see the "crimes" as too different. Both took drugs (should we distinguish as one took less drugs than the other/wasn't as good at it?) to gain an advantage. Both got caught. One got caught red handed and was still able to make a comeback and has said sorry and has been a positive (sorry) influence on the sport. One has been caught retrospectively and the dust hasn't really settled and has not had the opportunity to be all "oops sorry, it's really bad etc".
I think that there's a lot of this "I hope he goes bankrupt and homeless" stuff not because he cheated but because people don't like him, which is fair enough; he's a total ****.
Wish him the worst by all means but don't disguise it as faux outrage at his doping. You'd think he invented the stuff! Loads have, do and will continue to dope.
If Millar hadn't got caught by the rozzers, would he have become Mr anti-doping? Suppose we'll never know.