[Closed] Knee issues on cross bike - last ditch attempt!

Set up is wrong for you if you can ride other bikes without this pain

Have you been for a sport massage recently? I get tight leg muscles and that gives me slight knee pain, I go for a massage every month or so to loosen them off.

Edit: I only get this pain on my road bike as well.

ITB is not necessarily flexibilty, its about having properly firing glutes and other supporting muscles. Even if flexible maybe glutes arent firing properly?

I'm sorry but something is not "correct" for you if you have pain... regardless of other bikes or fitters measurements.

The fit is only correct when the pain goes away. My left knee and lower back are very sensitive to very minor fit changes, yet despite very different positions I can get comfortable on both my MTB & CX for extended periods.

Compared with my MTB, my CX bike setup has:
- slightly higher saddle height
- longer seated reach, and much more drop (to the hoods)
- shorter crank arms
- cleats further forward (feet further backward relative to pedal spindle)

I'd suggest you look at two things:
1. your saddle height
2. your saddle offset & cleat position

My thinking is you might be too far over or behind the pedals. Make one small change and test. If it's better make another small change, if it's worse revert and make a different small change. Don't go changing loads of things all at once.

Ive had this knee play up on one MTB before (slightly different spot), but simply moving the saddle up and back fixed it.

For me it sounds like your body is not happy with CX position. It seems most peoples mtbs are typically higher bar and saddle slightly further back compared to their CX bikes. If the guy setting you up for CX has adopted a typical approach and you felt comfortable at the time (no back pain etc.) it could be you need to re-visit the fit with your new issue.

For me an aggressive CX position will exhibit as back pain, I can imagine tension through the front of the knee coming from that too. If you are not used to running rigid and skinny tires or even racing you might be doing all sorts of things you dont notice that could be causing the issue. Maybe have someone who knows you watch you riding both bikes to pick up difference in your style, you can then take that back to the fitter.

Just to expand on the ITB/Quads (and glutes stuff) Had a physio confirm my hips/knees/legs are fine and the ITB isnt a problem just before buying the bike, this area is the best hes seen on me in years thanks to a program of squats/lunges plus glute exercises and stretches over the last two years. I did have problems when I started a job that includes sitting down all day (the original MTB knee pain), but nothing he could see at the time. Could be a good idea to go back and get him to have another look though, as this knee pain is different to last time.

May follow up the sports massage therapy as well, I do have a good therapist that makes me wince and feel like swearing a lot...

If the guy setting you up for CX has adopted a typical approach and you felt comfortable at the time (no back pain etc.) it could be you need to re-visit the fit with your new issue

I went for the set up specifically to address the knee pain in case Id set something up wrong, he went through as much as possible and I left him scratching his head as even on all the software recording there didnt seem to be anything that would normally result in knee pain. Id got the bike pretty much correct in set up terms as well before seeing him... 🙁

Compared with my MTB, my CX bike setup has:
- slightly higher saddle height
- longer seated reach, and much more drop (to the hoods)
- shorter crank arms
- cleats further forward (feet further backward relative to pedal spindle)

I'd suggest you look at two things:
1. your saddle height
2. your saddle offset & cleat position

My thinking is you might be too far over or behind the pedals

Before I went to the fitter I marked up my seatpost and went through a process of moving it up/down 2mm at a time, the same with saddle back/forwards, only changing one thing at a time, with no joy. I then also shortened the cranks (originally 175 as on the mtb), which did alleviate a bit but not eliminate the issue, and started again with the seat height/position combinations. The fitter tried several combinations of fore/aft and saddle height changes by a few mm at a time with no joy either. He has sent me away with the 'ideal' fitting from a combinations of measurements and video footage/power metering. I've also tried three different stem lengths, 3 different hood positions (each time only changing by mm), and have tried around 10 different cleat positions, each time only changing by mm to try and alleviate, with no success. Ive also tried shims and wedges, even though Id been told I didnt need them previously, as I wanted to rule them out before shelling out on a bike fit.

Really have been through everything obvious after a LOT of research, I dont think its one of the 'normal' reasons, otherwise the bike fitter would have picked it up... I did go to a professional fitter, not a bike shop, and I trust he did everything correctly. Its a bit of a tricky one 🙁 Unless anyone can see something in the above I may have missed trying??

I'd say you have a problem with your knee. Your getting away with it on the Mtb for some reason, you should be able to ride more or less any bike that is close to fitting. But for you the pain appears almost immediately on a different bike ? I'd see a physio or your Gp before anything else.

If it were me i'd go back to square 1.
If you have no pain on the MTB then take all the measurements from the MTB and set up the CX bike to have an identical position on the hoods. Same shoes, same shorts, same everything.

- Cleats set up correctly

Almost certain that one of them must be wrong if you are. Q-Factor is typically, at least 15-20 mm narrower on a road bike crank than an MTB crank. (just checked XT-Ultegra is near enough 30mm.........)

Pedals also have different axle lengths (so compounding the issue, but only a bit)

So you may be in the middle of the float and comfy on one, but at the extreme end of the float on the other and topping (or bottoming) out.

Unfortunately theres no way of telling if its the extra resistance or the lack of resistance thats causing the issue. So we can't tell which one is right.

OP says he tried flat pedals but could still be Q factor if he was keeping his foot inboard as much as possible still on them. When I had a roadie before I had bad knee pain so got some 20mm pedal extenders which sorted it.

Ah, missed that.

But still could be an issue, as you say.

There was an article in Cycling Plus magazine a good few years where they looked at different areas of knee pain (for example, in front, left side) and discussed the remedies for each. I've had a quick look online for the article, but didn't see it, but perhaps someone might be able to point you to it.

I ride a recumbent these days, and a fixie before that. I've never really suffered from knee problems other than during one audax riding a recumbent trike. It was agonising, and I ended up pedalling with one leg, and finished at the same time as a guy who'd just had a hip replacement! I used the aforementioned article to try and work out what was wrong, and in my case I angled my cleats slightly. Although not for everyone, I tend to use fixed cleats.

Recumbent riders seem to suffer from pedalling problems, so they often end up trying different cures such as short cranks, oval chain rings, and mid-foot cleats.

I once had a 'professional' bike fit, but wasn't happy with the results - in fact they were completely weird. When I later queried the results with the manufacturer of the measuring jig, it turned out that the fitter hadn't assembled the jig correctly, and it was missing a 2.5" base, making all their height measurements completely wrong! Surprisingly, I wasn't the first person they'd 'set up'! It sounds like your bike fitter knows his stuff, though.

Have you seen the articles by Steve Hogg? There's [url= https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/11/knee-pain/ ]this one[/url] on knee pain.

Also, when riding a new bike I find it very helpful to ride it on a turbo trainer at first. I find it allows me to analyse my position without having to think about other things such as keeping upright, which isn't always easy on a recumbent!

How's your pedalling form with respect to the knee that's sore? Get on a turbo or static bike and watch your knee as you pedal, is it wobbling at the very top of the stroke?

That's the sort of thing you can get away with on an MTB, but easily shows up on a more fixed position.

Just a quick Q, how tall are you.

I use 5mm longer cranks on the MTB than i do on the road. Even now i'm thinking of going shorter again. Just for efficiency and reducing the bend in the knee at TDC. If i try for the same length (lengthening the road crank), i get knee pains. Have you gone just over the threshold for the sort of riding you do on the CX, where the XC bike is ok?

Double post

Anything you can gain from here? Might be worth a read.
http://bikedynamics.co.uk/kneepain.htm

I advised a pal to buy a cross bike to use as a winter bike and wished I hadn't; firstly it wouldn't take mudguards and secondly, no matter how hard he tried, he couldn't get comfortable on it.

My guess is that a proper cross bike is designed for throwing around, jumping on and off and squelching through mud for one hour and not for long road trips. Since then gravel bikes have arrived in the shops and they look more comfortable.

in basic terms, sore front knee can indicate you need to raise saddle. Also, what about Q factor ?

Even Pro bike fits can need personal adjustment by the rider - I need my saddle on road bike about 3mm lower than the fitter reckoned, otherwise I get sore left knee.

I now have all dimensions in a book, and stick with them when I change bikes, seems to work for me. Road and cx and MTB all different though

anniison - Member

...have been through a bike fit (by a very highly rated fitter), and even hes a bit stumped.

Even with proper set up my right knee is niggling at me after just a few km (as in 5km!)...

So far we have ruled out the following:

...

- crank length correct

how tall are you/ what's your leg length?

seeing as how it's really quite hard to buy cranks outside the 175-165 range, and that's only a 5% difference anyway, it's quite possible that you don't have 'the correct crank length'.

basically, when it comes to cranks, we're offered 'one size fits all', i can't think of any other component offered in such a small range of sizes*.

i'm 6'2", i've got a 36" inseam, my knees are happier with 165's than 175. my 5foot wife uses 140mm cranks.

(*frames, saddles, stems, bars, grips, pedals, etc. all available in a choice of sizes much bigger than 5%)

My right knee problem turned out to be caused by my right hip. Had an MRI on Friday so waiting for the consultant to take a look and report back.

They gave me a disc with the full scan so much fun over the weekend looking at slices of my leg, hip, ball sack and 'old fella' should have worn him on the other side but once you in the scanner you can't move 🙂

Over three months this year, I had developed a wonky pedal stroke on the right side as my body compensated for the lack of hip rotation.

This also meant that I started to walk funny and put even more pressure on the knee.

I get something similar when I ride a road bike and try to put a lot of power down for any length of time. The physio reckons that the hip flexors etc on my right side are not up to the task of keeping my knee running true and it eventually wanders inboard.
Since starting the exercise plan I've noticed how much more stable my right knee feels.

May have already been said (i n r a t s)

How does the set up compare to bikes you ride without problem?

Which fitter did you see, out of interest?

Also, how do you pedal? Push hard gears, or spin? How tight do you have your shoes? Seems strange you don't require any wedges or arch support; no one is perfectly symmetrical!

Any pics of your bike set up as it is?

Probably obvious but have you tried rotating the cleat position, there's a formula for which direction related to knee pain but I can't remember now - sure it's online though. I had similar problems on my road bike about 6 months into owning it. Rotating the cleat on that side fixed it

Speedplay frog pedals

As you have covered every thing else it must be q factor. Plus you were putting your feet further apart on flats

Can you put MTB cranks on just for a test? Even if you can't run a front derailleur