[Closed] king or FSA Orbit XLII or alternatives.....

ive had an orbit XLII fitted for about 5 years, no problems whatsoever, a quick grease every now and again.

This question is really about want not need.
You need a headset, so a XL11 is perfect, £20, proven, super smooth spares available.
But you want a King - bling! what 4 times the price?

What i'd say is could you spend the differance on something better on the bike?

wot they said

orbits are fine, kings are finery. you get to decide all by yourself

Can't see why anyone would spend more than the £20 for an XL II

XL2 is the easy choice for me - cheap, reliable, last ages. What more does a headset have to do?

If you want it to be flash then CK but don't try and justify the cost "as good value because it'll last 10 years" because you're fooling no one 😉

The continual advocacy of XLIIs above Kings and the like baffles me. They have all the resistance to water ingress of a teabag.

If you want a headset that won't require new bearings every 6 months, a Cane Creek S3 is much better sealed. In particular it has a rubber o-ring in the top bearing cover, so water can't just trickle down the steerer.

The XL2 has that too or at least all three of mine do...

6 months? Mine are years old...

Mine didn't. It was trashed after a year, I spent a while futilely cleaning brown gunk out of it every month, then I had to go and order a new bearing, which lasted another few months.

don't try and justify the cost "as good value because it'll last 10 years" because you're fooling no one

What can I say, I'm cut to the quick. But at least my bike has a nicer headset than yours. 😉

King or orbit XL11 - yeah they're similiar!!!! NOT

It's like shall I buy a 1k bike of a 4K bike!

For what it's worth my XL11 lasted a couple of months before it was heamoraging rusty fluid from the bearings. I wouldn't entertain another unless it was on a road/commute bike.

Buy once - buy King

Water down the steerer thats a new one!
Its probably better to make sure stuff fits properly.

Water down the steerer thats a new one!
Its probably better to make sure stuff fits properly.

Well, it came from from somewhere. Aside from tightening up a headset in the normal fashion (which it's obvious if there's a problem with) how do you suggest I "make sure stuff fits properly"? That's all taken care of at the manufacturing stage, surely?

I wouldn't recommend people get Kings either if they're running long travel forks.

i stick an XL2 on most frames I've built, have done for years. I've not had to touch any of them ever, and some are 5+ years old. I've tried others over time, just to see, but they just don't compare and I end up going back to an XL2. They are ace.

I've gone somewhere in the middle ground, partly 'cause I like the colours, with a Hope headset. Bish bash bosh - haven't had any issues in a year to date.

To the XL11 lovers - 'you cannot be serious'!! Said in a John McEnroe stylee 🙂 😉

Ditto to the CK lovers 😉 🙂

i run a king on my roadbike but wouldnt put one in a mountain bike again , infact i wouldnt buy another one at all tbh unless they change the design.

ive xl11 on my both my mtbs and i cant fault them for the money

I quite like my hope.

Actually I'm now quite interested... What's actually gone wrong with the XL2s that people have had problems with? I just struggle to understand why my experience is so different to theirs...

I have a XL2 headset that's lasted years. Its been used and abused on a daily hack, downhill rig and long travel hardtail - never any issues - I always wipe out old grease after prior to winter and smear a load more in for winter. I use Silkolene fully synthetic grease that sticks like shit to a baby's nappy. Bearings are still like new.

However...

...If it was for my bestest loveliest bike I would always go for a Hope. They're easily as good as CK (which I have had for direct comparison), they give you none of the rubbing isues that CK give with long travel forks, they look good, work faultlessly, they're not expensive, and they're British. How many reasons does anyone need?

XLIIs only last me a few months before the bottom bearing goes all 'gritty' & rusts up
Kings have a bit of a rep for damaging long forks

I like Hopes

Are you sure you're not spending too much time in the clubs, instead of riding Mr Clubber! 🙂 😉

Have a great weekend - I'm outa-here.

Pete

XLII is no better than any other headset. Its got no sealing other than the cartridge bearing which manages to withsatnd a few months of riding but no more.

A king headset on the other hand had good sealing and the bearings dont need replacing every 12mths.

Personally i would buy a king or just buy the cheapest one available cos there isnt much inbetween. Possibly that Crane Creek one

I like my Hope too. Not silly money, they've licenced the proper design, they'll be making spares for them for decades to come, and you get a free expanding wedge thing that you can flog to someone with a carbon steerer.

Venturing under the bridge for a second, being stingy about finishing kit is a false economy. Drivetrains, I can understand, because even fancy stuff wears out. If someone came up with a drivetrain that lasted for 5 years at a stretch without needing anything doing to it, even paying the extra expense would be a no-brainer. And to the bloke above who says his XLII headsets last for 5 years - not looking inside them, or never riding your bike in the rain, isn't the same as not having any problems. 😛

For those whose XL2s go gritty, are you loading the lower cup with grease before fitting or just putting it all together 'dry'?

Also, I often hear people complaining that their headset's knackered (just generally, not talking about specific headsets here) but when pushed they'll admit that it doesn't actually cause any problem out on the trail - it's just one of those things that feels crap in the car park. A few years back I deliberately ran a cheap headset to near destruction (took about 4 years) just to see and right up to the point that the balls actually started falling out of it, I could never actually feel any difference when riding though it did feel terrible when just turning the bars while not riding. Obviously you need to ensure that there's no play but that's usually quite possible though it adds drag (again not noticeable out on the trail).

I guess what I'm getting at is that a lot of people get very precious about headsets when in fact, they have almost no bearing on the actual ride of the bike even when well past their best. CK and the like are nice to look at but really add very little to the bike beyond that (in fact, CK have a fundamentally compromised design with the o-ring seating for the top cap).

Mr A - sounds like you are trying to convince yourself. 😉

May be we are seeing the old maintain or replace divide here.
Some people maintain stuff others replace it when its ****ed.
I have a 05 s-works which has been riding at least once a week 52 weeks a year since it was new, still on the same XL2, still using the same cheap silicon grease, still buttery smooth.
Shropshire and wales. Crap hosed off after every ride.
Serviced spring and autumm (maybe over xmas last year from memory)when i service my forks.
"how do you suggest I "make sure stuff fits properly"? That's all taken care of at the manufacturing stage, surely?"
No at assembly, if somethings made wrong ie doesn't fit, why fit it.

come back Pete! You're wrong!

sounds like you are trying to convince yourself

Not at all. My bikes are generally creaky sheds, and maintaining them takes up far too much time, but at least I'm not fannying around putting grease in my headsets.

This debate is getting tedious now. Don't all you XLII people have to go and sweep a Chris King owner's chimney? 🙂

For those whose XL2s go gritty, are you loading the lower cup with grease before fitting or just putting it all together 'dry'?

I never put anything together dry 😉

I guess it could be some bike/fork combos throw the crap in the right place to cause problems?
This is one I took off after 4 months use - it had gone all gritty & the rust was obvious

[img] [/img]

And to the bloke above who says his XLII headsets last for 5 years - not looking inside them, or never riding your bike in the rain, isn't the same as not having any problems.

if you are referring to me, my bike gets used regularly in all kinds of weather.

if you want to justify your CK headset by talking down cheaper alternatives fine but dont tell me i don't ride my bike enough or can't look after equipment.

can't see the pic but did the gritty/rustiness actually affect the ride or just the car park section of the ride? 🙂

can't see the pic but did the gritty/rustiness actually affect the ride or just the car park section of the ride?

It affected my mechanical sympathy gene 😀

So basically it still worked fine 😉

I'll admit, I love the feel of a smooth headset bearing as much as the next CK Fanboi but I'm glad to say that I can set that aside enough if I can also logically see that it makes no difference to the primary purpose (eg riding the thing)... YMMV.

(FWIW, my wife accuses me of being a geek for appreciating finely engineered products)

Well you didn't show it much sympathy when you hammered out 😀

Well you didn't show it much sympathy when you hammered out

I'd lost all sympathy for it by then 😀

So basically it still worked fine

Yes - in much the same way as a worn out chain works fine - until it fails
IME unusual mechanical noises are a sign of trouble ahead - I wouldn't have fancied a collapsed headset bearing in the middle of nowhere

Worn chains don't fail (at least not more than non-worn ones IME).

Ditto headset bearings. As I said above, they usually just get grittier.

Anyway, I still blame the user 😉 Keep your unnecessary bling to yourself 😉

dont tell me i don't ride my bike enough or can't look after equipment.

This is one of the eternal mysteries of MTB forums. Someone asks for an opinion on part X, you say you had one and it wasn't very good, then proud owner of part X pops up acting like we're 18th century aristocrats and you've just slapped him in the face with a glove. 🙄

Just to clarify, I didn't say cheap headsets were all bobbins, just that I had an XLII, it needed fiddling with on a fairly regular basis, and assuming that scraping brown cack out of little metal cups isn't one of your passions, I've even recommended a cheap 'n' cheerful alternative. Hokay?

Keep your unnecessary bling to yourself

Says the man who once met a complete stranger in the woods on the promise of some free 10 year-old suspension forks. 😉

mr_a - you sir are a boundah! I demand an apology to all my dear XL2 headsets immediately or I'll see you at dawn for a duel to the death.

I think your memory's playing tricks with your mr_a - I went to his house somewhere in Horfield on the way back from a ride to pick them up... still haven't quite got round to using them, mind...

BTW clubber, I have a XLII for sale if you're interested, I've been assured that it's in perfect working order 😉

Shall we say £10 + post?

And to the bloke above who says his XLII headsets last for 5 years - not looking inside them, or never riding your bike in the rain, isn't the same as not having any problems.

and assuming it was me - northern Peak District winters don't come much more wet and gritty! They get taken apart three times a year, before and after winter, and another mid-winter, cleaned and greased. that 5yr old one is on a bike which i had as an only bike for a few years, so it got hammered (read as used most days - at least 1-2 days a week off road as an average).

You're not worth my time you scurvy knave. Although I may send my footman along to give you a thrashing.

Sounds like a bargain but sadly I'll have to turn you down. All three bikes that have Xl2s on seem to be stubbornly refusing to need new headsets so have no need for one 😉

FWIW, I have a knackered CK one (knackered bearings) sitting around spare though. You'd probably be interested in that?

I went to his house somewhere in Horfield

Somehow that sounds even more sordid. 🙂

An idea is germinating.

Can all the Chris King owners on the forum meet up with all the XLII owners in a park somewhere? Then have a massive fight with lots of slapping and hair-pulling? 🙂

This is one of the eternal mysteries of MTB forums. Someone asks for an opinion on part X, you say you had one and it wasn't very good, then proud owner of part X pops up acting like we're 18th century aristocrats and you've just slapped him in the face with a glove.

One of the other eternal mysteries of mountain bike forums is why when someone disagrees with their opinion, people have to make out that it's because they aren't hard enough/as good as you at maintenance. 😉

But the CK owners would be disadvantaged by not being able to use long travel bombers to pwn anyone with - they'd be stuck with weedy 80mm forks though they'd undoubtedly be nice and colourful 😉

But imagine when they got their salt and pepper shakers out. That would sting.

"I went to his house somewhere in Horfield "
Not Horfield in Wolves!!!!!!

Horfield, Brizzle

Grumm, where do I say I'm conscientious at maintaining headsets? I freely admit I can't be arsed with it. That's why I'm baffled by all these XLII owners saying that they do it three times a year. It's not even like they can afford to pay a shop or a butler to do it for them. And they must have precious little free time outside of the workhouse.

As with so many things, I'm quite prepared to believe that the very, very expensive thing is considerably better. But I'm not going to buy it, because the cheap thing is OK. And "OK" is about the level of my riding. 🙂

Horfield, Brizzle
i don't know whether thats better or worse.