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I demoed a 1x12 bike. I was surprised how well it all worked having been a skeptic.
I don't think 1x11 would work as well for me.
I've never found two shifters a problem. But it's not like I missed front shifting.
I think a real benefit is on FS bikes where designers know where the chain forces well be with greater certainty
Adjusting front mechs? Yep, I can do that. I have a gravel bike I can do that on.
I can set up a front mech. I can operate a front mech...
BUT I'D RATHER NOT!!
As said, it's very subjective and down to personal preferance.
For me, I've been on 1x for the last 10 years. It just suits my ridding and location. I hated the cluter & weight.
1x11 was the first time I feelt like I didn't needed anything else. The range was plenty.
Alas, new bike was 1x12 and the range is too wide for my riding. It's been more reliable than 1x11 though!
I used to be able to use the big ring on 3x9 to retain the chain on bumpy, fast track. Once I got going, I could think "ooh my chain might bounce off" and shift into big ring, low sprocket to keep the chain tight. Or do that gentle front mech trim, pedal technique to get the chain back on the front rings when it had bounced off. I could do that.
BUT I'D RATHER NOT!!
It depends doesn't it. Obviously the manufacturers like it because it's the latest new thing to sell and also full suspension bikes you can designed around chainline and pivot points a bit better.
I prefer it but it's not a panacea. For sure other people may prefer 2x or even 3x systems.
My riding is almost exclusively off-road. The only time I hit tarmac is crossing it to get to other off road trails. I don't really care about matching cadence with gear ratio because the nature of my riding is too choppy in its power demands to worry about it. Its all about Range.
1x12 10-50 with a 30t up front is the first integrated system that doesn't require some kind of alterations that meet my needs.
I'm not fooling myself though. The claims of lighter weight aren't really there now with these massive cassettes, but it is simpler, it's a neater package, there's less to think about, it is less prone to mud interference and SRAM x-sync2 stuff at least, wears really well.
Simplicity (and low cost) is the main goal plus it's an experiment.
I've done the maths and where my fancier (lighter) Road bike currently has 50/38 with a 12-30 cassette I'll get as near as damn-it the same bottom ratio and only lose the very top gear, however I do have the option of going for a bigger cassette (say a 36t, maybe even a 40t?). As I'm using an old XT mech and a friction shifter so I'm not tied to any specific number of sprockets (although I'm not sure I fancy trying to twiddle my way through 11 gears with a friction shifter), obviously it needs me to think about shifting increments Vs Range Vs cost (Ahem... compromises).
Like I said it's an experiment and hopefully by the end of winter I can decide for myself if I think a 1x road bike is a viable option (for me) and equip the posher one accordingly.
I'm convinced because I'm too stupid to use a front shifter.
Side benefit: the chain covers the front ring so no more big ring trying to slice your calf open when you crash.
Like everything in life, there is no doubt a compromise for most people and situations.
I had 3x5 iirc on my first iron gate, and it was a godsend to have such a low gear for climbing.
Function wise, I think 2x10 was about the best in terms of gear spread but it only takes one nasty chain suck moment to damage a frame, and this happened to me a couple of times. Despite being finnicky about keeping it all running sweetly, sometimes things happen and crunch - the chain is off and tangled.
Not had a dropped chain once since going to a 1x system.
Looks a lot better, performs very well and the only time I miss a seriously low gear was when I reminisce about a fat bike I had with 22 and 36 rings up front and a 11 to 46 on the rear. Far in excess of regular 2x and 3x offerings in their time so not really a valid argument.
A flip side is Di2 and other electronic shifting systems. It works so well on road bikes (my other half has it). Never missed a shift and programmes itself to change front rings to give the correct spread of gears when going up and down. If it works as well off road in all conditions then that could be the best option - but at a cost, and how will it cope with random chain suck scenarios - do they still happen?
Hmmm. I'm still using 3x9 on both my bikes.
My Inbred gets used as a bit of a jack of all trades, but quite a lot on local road jaunts with my Wife & daughter on her WeeRide.
It probably spends most time in the big ring. I could swap to 2x, I suppose but all the kit currently works & I'm not convinced that 2x is much of an advantage over 3x...
My full sus is still 3x9. I would consider swapping to something else, but:
- it all still works, so I would be changing it for the sake of it at quite a high expense.
- I don't have a dropper, so don't need more space on the bars for the remote.
- I can operate both levers fine & set-up a front mech, so don't find it a problem.
- Whenever i do go riding in hilly locations, I always see one or two riders struggling up climbs using 1x set-ups where they could probably do with a few more spinny gears. Living in the fens, I don't have hill climbing legs & find super-spinny useful for those situations.
3x9 does look pretty archaic on the bikes, when they are sat next to 1x systems.
– it all still works, so I would be changing it for the sake of it at quite a high expense.
I was definitely of the same mindset. Only changed when it needed to be, glad I did.
Whenever i do go riding in hilly locations, I always see one or two riders struggling up climbs using 1x set-ups where they could probably do with a few more spinny gears
There does seem to be a bit of a macho thing with 1x riders using big chainrings, but I've noticed that getting off and pushing up hills is generally more common these days anyway.
It's always interesting to see Chain Suck come up as a big issue. It must be very location-dependant. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've experienced it in 30 years of riding.
it’s quite astonishing the number of folk who seem to lack the coordination required to operate two shifters and/or can’t set up a front mech.
Except that I did it for 20 years, and I continue to do it on three of my bikes. But I still prefer not doing it. That's not a proper argument, just a dig.
It’s always interesting to see Chain Suck come up as a big issue. It must be very location-dependant.
It is. Mud is a very complex substance and varies greatly. There's a particular kind of wet gritty paste that you get on certain trail surfaces, in certain landscapes and with certain rates of rain that really ****s up drivetrains and you can be fine one day and basically unable to pedal the next due to more (or less) rain.
Whenever i do go riding in hilly locations, I always see one or two riders struggling up climbs using 1x set-ups where they could probably do with a few more spinny gears
I'm a reasonable rider and I run 30/46 on my race bike because I don't like pushing and our hills are steep. 30/11 top gear is not very high, but on my local rides there are only a few spots on the road to and from the trails where I spin out, and only for a few seconds. So on that bike, for its usage, it's such a minor issue I learn to live with it for the benefits. First few times I span out I reached for a taller gear and it was slightly annoying, but I got used to it. It probably makes the ride home about 30s longer.
But like I say it would be more of an issue on other bikes that get used for different rides.
Even then though I virtually never use 42/11 on my 3x9, and only very very rarely use 42/13. I should add though that all of the above refers to 29ers.
That's sort of what I was eluding too scotroutes, as I never had a major problem with it - until I did and it made a complete mess of a frame.
Only takes one such event to make you think about options and for me 1x took away any chance of chain suck so was a bonus.
Possibly looking through rose tinted glasses as it is that long ago now. I seem to remember the late 90s, early 2000s being the worst as this was just before I went 2x.
edit- and for me the rides were all in Yorkshire mud when problems happened. Very slippy, sloppy, gloopy mud and the entrance and exit route to the rides was generally a sandy in fill from cobbles placed on a path down into the woods. Esholt woods if anybody lives near Yeadon ;o)
Ahh the memories.
What DezB said. And now that the front mech is dead on proper bikes* the frames can stop being compromised to make room for them.
*obvious troll is not serious
Plus, wasn’t it the accepted wisdom that more weight on rear wheel was a bad thing from a suspension point of view? Surprised 50 tooth cassettes have been accepted so readily…
Yes, and is the reason I prefer 2x. Recently built up a Stanton switchback and went 2x because I much prefer a lighter rear end on a hardtail as well so it can skip over rocks more readily rather than thumping into them.
150g saving at rear wheel, 100g heavier overall.
..Chain Suck come up as a big issue. It must be very location-dependant...
Maybe, but mostly frame-type-dependant. And how-long-you-run-a-worn-front-ring-for-dependant. And maybe (according to the wise LBS owner I seem to have mentioned a couple of times this week) how-you-shift-dependant (as this effect the wear-ness of the chain ring - which means it is eliminated with 1X )
Depends on where you live and ride
When I lived and rode on the Moray coast the biggest climb might have 50m of ascent tops, so 1x8 (36t with 11-28t) giving a 254% range was fine.
Now I live in south Aberdeenshire and can ride into the mountains from my doorstep I'm grateful for my 3x8 setup ( 22-32-42 with 11-30t) which gives a 526% range, I still grind to a halt on some climbs and spin out on the way down.
I suppose I could still get up the hills with 1x11 34t 11-46t setup, but I would miss blasting the descents at 60kph.
Oh god… rides ruined by chainsuck… I’d completely blanked those out of my memory. Thank you Sram for moving things on for us all… even if I still use Shimano myself.
The real question is , is 1x 11 better than 1 x 9 as invariably the front mech gets full of crap and doesn’t work.
I’ve never heard of that happening. Do you clean your bike, ever? 🤔
I’ve never heard of that happening.
It happened to me after I did a really muddy ride and put the bike away dirty, then didn't ride it again for months. I fixed it by scraping out all the dried mud and spraying it with CRC.
The new MTB i got in March has 1 x 12 on it. My last MTB was 2 x 10 (originally 3 x 10) and i was sceptical about going 1x for a number of reason. My commuter has 2 x10 on and something that i used to take for granted now annoys me is the huge jump when changing on the front (ok its more exaggerated on a 50/34). I had got used changing down a couple of gears when changing to the smaller chainring with out noticing that this is what i was doing to maintain a cadence i liked. With the 1 x 12 there is no need to do this as the changes up are of a decent gap.
On a side observation it is funny how things become normal, i was looking at old photos and thought how odd the 3 Chang rings look even the 2 look a bit funny where as i used to think that the 1x chainring look very odd and small.
Hmmm. So looking at bit more into this...
It looks like SLX 1x11 can be had for around £220-£260, while XT is just over £300. Not as bad as I thought; although I'll be replacing an XT crank, XT shifters, XTR rear mech etc. so would prefer to stick with XT spec, rather than going down to SLX on my 'nice' bike. Probably no real-world difference, but.....
And then SRAM NX or GX 1x12 can be had for slightly less, although no idea where they sit in the quality stakes compared to Shimano? Is GX similar to XT sort of level? Their components (shifters & mechs in particular) look a bit plasticky compared to Shimano, although I've got Apex on the road bike and that works OK.
SRAM offers one more ratio, which might be nice....
Do both systems work on my 9-speed wheels? Swapping would be completely unfeasible if I had to replace my wheels at the same time.
It happened to me after I did a really muddy ride and put the bike away dirty, then didn’t ride it again for months.
Damn those faulty mechs! 😉
although I’ll be replacing an XT crank
Sure you need to change that?
I've never ridden 1 x 11 but I've heard people say the big gaps are annoying.
I'm quite happy with 2 x 11 on my road bikes as they give me the full range of speeds.
I loved the 3 x 10 on my Tricross for touring and C2C because it always gave you the perfect ratio with only small changes between cogs.
I’ve never heard of that happening. Do you clean your bike, ever?
A clean bike and half a lap of a cross race rendered one completely useless for me
@stumpy01 - no real need to replace a crank, just use existing crank with a Narrow-Wide chainring
SLX setup is 143 Euro at the link below, then you just need the chainring. Should be a fair chunk cheaper than £220-260
Surely the question should relate to 1x12 not 1x11 as that is where 1x transmissions are these days .11 speed with 420% range of gears is slightly compromised in terms of gear range but 12 speed with 500% or 510% range gives you all the gears you need without all of the aforementioned problems with front mechs .
A clean bike and half a lap of a cross race rendered one completely useless for me
Yeah, but I’ve ridden many cross races that render the whole bike useless after half a lap. Citing a cross race as evidence for front mechs being useless is ridiculous. And, if you’ve raced cross for any length of time, you’ll know that.
I think it’s great , right thumb for shifting left thumb for dropper post . Simplicity is key for me though , one less thing to look after and maintain.
I quite like the idea of that box 9 speed drivetrain , cheaper cassettes and stronger chains . For me anyway the closeness of the ratios wouldn’t be to much of an issue on a mtb , I can see the need for small jumps on a road bike or maybe a Xc race bike but for normal trail riding I reckon a 10 or 9 speed with the range of eagle would be fine .
DezB
Sure you need to change that?
Nope 🙂
honourablegeorge
@stumpy01 – no real need to replace a crank, just use existing crank with a Narrow-Wide chainring
Ah. So, it would seem.
Might have to look a bit more into this.....
...
- I can operate both levers fine & set-up a front mech, so don’t find it a problem.
– Whenever i do go riding in hilly locations, I always see one or two riders struggling up climbs using 1x set-ups where they could probably do with a few more spinny gears...
Why is it the "front mech preservation society" need to start rubbishing 1x users ability to use two shifters/operate a front mech correctly, setup a front mech correctly, generally imply that it's just a fashion (when it's now a quite clearly established norm on MTBs) or make out that all 1x users were morons all along and breathed a collective sigh of relief when the big corp's suddenly made bikes simpler for their tiny brains to operate...
Isn't it normally a last ditch tactic when you've already lost the argument, to just start badmouthing those that don't share your opinions?
Anyway, you lot are free to carry on dragging about your collection of mostly redundant cogs and the rest of us will keep swanning about with our neat "sequential shifting solution" and I'm sure we'll all muddle by somehow...
last ditch tactic when you’ve already lost the argument, to just start badmouthing those that don’t share your opinions?
Hmm, I've never seen that on STW..! 😆
It looks like SLX 1×11 can be had for around £220-£260, while XT is just over £300. Not as bad as I thought; although I’ll be replacing an XT crank, XT shifters, XTR rear mech etc. so would prefer to stick with XT spec, rather than going down to SLX on my ‘nice’ bike. Probably no real-world difference, but…..
You don't need new cranks, you can re-use the 3x cranks like I did.
I’ve never ridden 1 x 11 but I’ve heard people say the big gaps are annoying.
On an 11-42 no, on Shimano 11-46 like I have then yes the last jump is from 37 to 46. I could get away with 11-42, however since my Salsa is currently bust I am trying to use the Trek for training rides where I don't want too high intensity, so the 46 is on.
1x12 solves all these issues tho by the look of it, with only a 6T jump on the last cog instead of 9. Although I think Sunrace 11sp have a smaller jump?
cokkea - because the issues some folk have with front mechs others of us never have. chainsuck - had it once after putting a new chain on. NO damage to the frame. Front mech stopping working - once in deep snow. I don't drop chains and anyway the front mech holds it on. I use the chainrings as low / high set of ratios ie drop to granny ring at the bottom of a climb so don't have to shift chainrings under load. running granny ring and 3 at the back gives a nice chainline. compared to a 1x on the biggest sprocket and also gives a nice close ratio set of low gears. I have twistshifters so can trim the front mech. I maintain my bikes well and always have a well lubed chain and ride with mechanical sympathy so perhaps this is why I don't get the issues. I haven't had to replace a mech, cassette or chain in thousands of miles.
I prefer 1 X, but I've always suspected it was to a large degree originally driven by the designers' desire for pivot placement, wider tyres, shorter chainstays and lower BB. Might be a chicken and egg thing though.
because the issues some folk have with front mechs others of us never have
But that's down to circumstances as much as anything else.
Chainsuck, for example. The level of wear required to cause chainsuck is different depending on mud conditions. So for example, you ride locally and think that the chainrings are fine, but when you get covered in Brecon Beacons mud which is a very specific type, the chain sucks like a complete bastard.
And if for example you buy an XTR M970 chainset, then the ring will last a few hundreds of miles before sucking like hell.
You're perfectly entitled to prefer 2 or 3x if you want, but there's no need to denigrate people or act all superior. It's my fairly extensive experience of MTBing all over the country that has taught me about different types of mud and their effect on your bike.
If you don't need the range, it's better. I ran 2x for a few years on any bike that might be taken out on serious trails, ground clearance is much better than 3x.
The answers above, particularly the defensive ones from 1x evangelists, prove that is not better, but it's a different compromise that suits a lot of people better a lot of the time.
Currently 2x10, 1x10 and 1x1 on mine. 1x isn't better but it saves a few grams, makes shifting less to think about, and has enough range for xc racing and most rides. 2x for long steep stuff. I could do with a higher top end for road descending on both but I try to avoid that anyway and the 2x could take a much bigger outer ring!
Gunz
I prefer 1 X, but I’ve always suspected it was to a large degree originally driven by the designers’ desire for pivot placement, wider tyres, shorter chainstays and lower BB.
I don't doubt all those things drive adoption and development of 1x, but lots of folks were running 1x10 or even 1x9 before SRAM got involved with XX1.
never had a problem with front mechs and I am sure the drivetrain is alot cheaper this way.
MY actual preference is hub gears!
I've had chainsuck once on a 1x system and that was with the original Raceface chainring after about a year of riding. As @molgrips says chainsuck can depend on kit as well as the mud and grit attacking it.
Narrow-wide chainrings have all but eliminated chain drop so I've never felt the need for a chain retention device - might be different if racing DH is your thing.
Gaps between ratios? Do you complain about the gaps when changing gear when in the middle or big rings? The gaps on a 1x system are the same as sticking in the middle ring on a 3x system and moving up and down the cassette. I've never heard anyone complain about those!
cookeaa
Why is it the “front mech preservation society” need to start rubbishing 1x users ability to use two shifters/operate a front mech correctly, setup a front mech correctly, generally imply that it’s just a fashion (when it’s now a quite clearly established norm on MTBs) or make out that all 1x users were morons all along and breathed a collective sigh of relief when the big corp’s suddenly made bikes simpler for their tiny brains to operate…
Isn’t it normally a last ditch tactic when you’ve already lost the argument, to just start badmouthing those that don’t share your opinions?
HA HA! Crikey - a bit defensive there! Did someone piss on your chips today?
I just went through in my head the reasons for not swapping to 1x. I personally don't give a toss what other people run on their bikes.
There were a couple of comments along the lines of front mech set-up being a pain and/or having one lever being easier than juggling two levers...hence my comment about not finding either of them an issue, so not a reason to swap.
I haven't seen anyone on this post say that 1x is a fashion or make out that 1x users are morons....
I wouldn't know about a last ditch tactic as a result of losing an argument - I am not arguing one way or another. I even indicated a few posts further down that it might not be as expensive as I thought it would be, and is perhaps something I should look into.
My list was roughly in order of priority as to why I haven't swapped, but you chose to omit most of my reasoning from your post;
Just to re-iterate:
- Cost; or perhaps more correctly, perceived cost to swap.
- No dropper; so no requirement to make space for a remote.
- No issues with a front mech or set-up thereof.
- Seeing people struggle with 1x set-ups on hills where perhaps a few more spinny gears would help (perhaps they are happy with the compromise & that's fine). I'm not judging their motives or choices; just seeing it and understanding it as a potentially stumbling block FOR ME.....
And if for example you buy an XTR M970 chainset, then the ring will last a few hundreds of miles before sucking like hell.
Thousands of miles. No chainsuck.
Why is it the “front mech preservation society” need to start rubbishing 1x users ability to use two shifters/operate a front mech correctly, setup a front mech correctly, generally imply that it’s just a fashion
No need to imply anything. There's enough folk on here already admitted to both of the above