[Closed] Just bought a gravel bike. Will I regret it?

You can push it as far as you like, enjoy, feel comfortable with. No idea what that Orange is like (badged mediocrity to appeal to brand loyalists?)

My view is they can make pretty tame terrain quite exciting (by virtue of being unsuitable)
And make road bits tolerable.
You can spin it the other way of course, crap offroad and crap onroad, but you wouldn’t have bought it if you thought that surely?
A compromise, just like every other bike ever made.

TBH my gravel bike is pretty indistinguishable from my early MTB's and trail centres aside, the geography hasn't changed much.

Rigid.

Narrow tyres

Narrow bars (curly but about the same width)

Only difference is with discs, I don't have to send a postcard ahead to advise I want to slow down.

I really enjoy my 'road and tracks' bike. It is totally different to my 120mm hardtail and I use it to take me on totally different rides.

Gravel bike are great for non-technical BWs/tracks that are rideable from home but not worth taking the mtb for. Guess it depends where you live, but there's loads of that kind of stuff within 10 miles of where I live. I've tried some off-piste rooty woodsy single-track but found myself wishing I was on my full suss. I've done a lot of road riding on mine too. Slower than a road bike but being able to shortcut down gravel tracks or just go exploring is great. Gravel bike are a compromise, but if I could only own one bike that would be it.

They can be as fun as you want to make them, fast and nimble, not a chore on tarmac, encourage more exploring etc. etc. Amazingly versatile if you have the legs/technique to push a big gear through the rocky loose stuff.

Come winter stick some CX tyres on and learn to love the mud 😎

I doubt you'll regret it, I went from a Cross bike to Gravel and for me it's a far better bike.

In practice theres a wide range of Gravel bikes out there which means you've hopefully ended up with the bike best suited to your actual riding.

As others have mentioned,  often there best trick is to make tame trails fun and road links faster than an MTB would manage.

Put a dropper on it.

Will make stupid shit seem possible.

theotherjonv
Full Member

TBH my gravel bike is pretty indistinguishable from my early MTB’s and trail centres aside, the geography hasn’t changed much.

Rigid.

Narrow tyres

Narrow bars (curly but about the same width)

Only difference is with discs, I don’t have to send a postcard ahead to advise I want to slow down

Pretty much echo this^

In fact my gravel bike is closer to the road end of gravel bikes and yet still ticks these boxes.

In fact, it has fatter tyres than my first 2 MTBs.

Staying in the Yorkshire Dales seeing my parents this week. Brought the cx/gravel bike rather than the MTB. It's certainly more of a challenge coming down the steeper/rockier bridleways, but for trails like the Cam High road, High Lane, Busk Lane etc it's almost ideal.

Only almost ideal mind you, descending require a big dose of bravery and luck. The trail down from Wether Fell to Crag Side today was a bit........ rideable...... Just!

I bought a sonder camino, so a similar price point and spec to yours and its got to be my most ridden bike now. Sold the road bike, the singlespeed and mtb has not been ridden for 6 months as a result. I think that'll be used just for winter now. The gravel bike is fun to ride straight from the front door, relaxed and more capable off road than I thought it could be. You don't have to faff with a roadbike uniform and feel inclined to follow a set of cycling rules. If I could only have one bike, a gravel would be it. Enjoy!

There's just something about riding on tarmac, seeing a gravel track or lane and heading off where your nose takes you.

Yksion Allroad 30mm tyres for faster tarmac use and a bit of off piste.

Schwalbe Allround 38mm for a bit more gnar.

Did get myself in a twist at first attempting MTB terrain but you soon learn to tone it down a bit. They're very capable.

Convenience of grabbing the gravel bike for a spin and its versatility means it gets much more use than my mtb.

On the right terrain they are a blast. Loads of suitable trails all over England. Not better than MTB or road. Just another great option

As long as you remember, gravel bikes aren’t ‘proper’ mountain bikes because most ‘proper’ mountain bikes get put in a van and are driven somewhere to ride man-made trails.

I am still getting to grips with mine. Last ride out I concluded the front is definitely too low (I need to flip the stem to rise rather than flat) and the tyres are still pumped up too hard (40psi, probably needs to lose 5psi at rear and 7-10 up front) and possibly need setting up tubeless.

Descending in the drops seem to give the best control but I'm struggling to contort myself into the right position to not crick my neck over longer descents. I'm not very flexible and a bit podgy though!

I've done a couple of easy MTB rides on it when other bike has been out of action and it's been fun, quick on the climbs and ok on the descents.

For me its sweet spot is road/easy tracks linking up stuff that might be a bit lacking in challenge/interest on an MTB. It's so much more capable than that but I'd rather be on the MTB once it gets interesting going down.

Depends……………

I have a Mason Bokeh and love it, it allows mr to ride a multi terrain route right from my door.

But I ride narrow tubeless 38 Gravel Kings which are bloody uncomfortable on bumpy / rutted and when I hit these I’d rather be on my Scott Spark RC.

However I’m able to hit decent speeds on tarmac and gravel so for this it’s a fantastic bike. I dare say if I were to fit 650 wheels with wider tyres it would be more suited to rougher trails.

Gravel bikes are great imo.

I bought an RX9 earlier this year second hand. It's probably my most used bike now. I use it for road riding evening session with a local club, lots of Lake District miles mixing road and bridleways. Great bikes and very versatile go pedal and ride anything that looks interesting.

Convenience of grabbing the gravel bike for a spin and its versatility means it gets much more use than my mtb.

Exactly this for me. I can jump on the gravel bike and end up miles away down some path, trail or farm track I've never been to before. Getting to and from these places on the road is much less of slog too (I don't drive).

I still love my full suss but it's definitely my least used bike now.

For those with gravel bikes that they use on the road, what tyres would you get if you started again?

I'm looking at a Ribble CGR and contemplating a set of 650b with 47mm tyres and a set of 700c with 28/30mm road tyres.

Most of my riding is long road rides or short mixed rides (tarmac, bridleways and woodland - but very little rough riding). I'm missing a bike that can do the slightly rougher woods stuff, my full suss makes it a total non-event and boring. My old CX bike made it an event.

@boombang I run 700x38 G-One Allrounds but if if I was I was riding predominantly on road I'd consider some 30mm G-One Speeds. As for the 650b option, probably something from WTB.

four

I have a Mason Bokeh and love it, it allows mr to ride a multi terrain route right from my door.

But I ride narrow tubeless 38 Gravel Kings which are bloody uncomfortable on bumpy / rutted and when I hit these I’d rather be on my Scott Spark RC.

This - they can be ridden on bumpy rough stuff, but mountain bikes they are not. I love mine, but the off road stuff I use it for is not what I'd ride on a mountain bike or anything close.

Love my gravel bike, as per many people, I can just ride out my door, smash out some miles on the tarmac at a decent speed, then when I spot a gate or bridleway, I can dash off and explore.

There are odd its of singletrack, small woods, paths and tracks near me, but all far too spread out to be any fun on an MTB. Gravel bike allows me to access this riding, and also makes what would be quite tame singletrack, much more fun and interesting.

As for tyres - I run 700x50mm. If you've got the size, use it.

I've never understood the whole 650b for off-road thing. I personally believe that 650b is just an excuse trotted out by manufacturers to cover poor design of a frame that wont take a tyre big enough in 700c for the intended use.

I am still getting to grips with mine. Last ride out I concluded the front is definitely too low (I need to flip the stem to rise rather than flat) and the tyres are still pumped up too hard (40psi, probably needs to lose 5psi at rear and 7-10 up front) and possibly need setting up tubeless.

Descending in the drops seem to give the best control but I’m struggling to contort myself into the right position to not crick my neck over longer descents. I’m not very flexible and a bit podgy though!

Mine is tubeless, 700 x 50c at 28psi.

My drops were too low (compared to my seat) so went for a set of these:
https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/bike/handlebars/wcs-beacon-handlebar

Really good as they've a short drop and very easy to flip between hoods/drops. Before these, I'd put a dropper on but now find I don't really need it.

Had an RX9 for a couple of years and its versatility makes it my most ridden bike. It can cope with tougher ground than I thought it might with 40mm tyres on it. Not regretted getting it at all.

I've got a Merlin Malt, 700c, running 35mm Schwalbe G Ones - if I had to only have one bike it would be this one, or one very much like it.

All I've done to it is flip the stem to get the bars higher, and fit an old 100mm dropper I had in the spares box (under seat lever type). I averaged over 13mph on a 14 mile pre-breakfast ride last week, with perhaps 2.5-3.0 miles of that being off road of varying degrees of gnar, plus four gates/bridges to negotiate. When my tyres need replacing I'll probably go a bit bigger, and tubeless, as punctures are my biggest issue. Any half decent mountain bike territory is about 10 miles from me, so for a nice varied ride from the door, including some sections to scare me, the gravel bike is perfect.

I'd advise a helmet with no peak (or at least removable) as you're best off descending in the drops, and you'll either see bugger all or get a bad neck fast riding with a peaked helmet!

You're unlikely to regret it if the alternative is a turbo trainer in the garage.

😀

[not a troll] What's the benefit of a gravel bike over a 29er with suspension? [/not a troll]

Take for example; my Scandal, it'll happily do 16-17mph on the road, and off-road it's about a brazillion times better than a rigid bike...Honestly, what am I missing?

16-17mph on the road

So, pretty slow then.

Take for example; my Scandal, it’ll happily do 16-17mph on the road, and off-road it’s about a brazillion times better than a rigid bike…Honestly, what am I missing?

Drop bars. Unless you don't like drop bars. I love them, and actually struggle now to get comfortable or stay comfortable on flat bars for any sort of length of time.

Depending on tyre size, maybe also speed, my MTB with very fast 2.1" slick tyres is still just that bit slower on tarmac, which puts me off just riding from the door when I know I have 30-40 minutes tarmac between me and the first decent trails.

Aero?

Dunno. All I know is that it was a fast 29er with 40mm gravel tyres that gave me the bug for gravel riding after 125km of mixed roads and tracks in Perthshire, but I now much prefer my bona-fide gravel bike.

Edit: actually I'd say in all honesty that if you like your Scandal on road and off, then don't change! Most of my rides I don't really care about my speed on the tarmac sections but just because the 29er *feels* more sedate, I'm less inclined to take it out. That said, maybe you should try a light, drop barred rigid bike on some swooping, tight singletrack. You know? The sort it's impossible to actually thread a set of 800mm wide bars through now? 😁

I had a day off Friday and chose to ride to our weekend away, west coast if Cumbria to Lindisfarne, had planned a mixed route so took gravel bike, had to make a couple of route changes on the go which added in an extra 30km. None of the off-road sections warranted an MTB and the range of hand positions and also how that affects shoulders, back backside and arms was greater than if I had a fast 29er. It wasn't fast but I enjoyed the day out. I'd have been faster if I'd put road tyres on an maybe I would for the same ride again and just stick to tarmac. I wouldn't attempt a ride like that on a MTB, although you could happily do it and some people would be faster on one than I was. If I'd take my road bike and stick to roads, the lower front end would have been less enjoyable after the first 5 hours and although faster a less enjoyable day out overall.

I have a set of 650b wheels with 50mm tyres. Way more cushioning than the 40mm 700c tyres I had on before. The 700c rims now have 35mm tyres for mainly road. If bikes frames and parts were easily available I'd have built a bike to take big 700c tyres. But I couldn't face betting struck for parts on a build. I'm loving the 650b way more than I thought I would.

I set the whole thing go for a planned big ride last weekend. 140 km including good sections of the ridgeway, road and some single track. Really only a couple of places where would have wanted for suspension. But it was a very well planned route

If I had a spare set of 650b wheels/tyres will they swap out for the 700c easily?

I don't understand the diff between 650/700

650b wheels are the same as 27.5, 700c the same as 29 inch wheels. So smaller wheels generally means you can get wider tyres in the frame if it was designed for 700c wheels.

Only problem is it tends to drop the bottom bracket height but can offset that with bigger tyres.

I love my Kona Sutra LTD gravel bike which came with 700 x 50mm tyres which were great and really fast. But I’ve swapped them for 29 x 2.25 tyres so basically a drop bar mountain bike. I’m struggling to think when I’ll go back to the 50mm tyres to be honest as it’s so much fun on the bigger tyres.

Take for example; my Scandal, it’ll happily do 16-17mph on the road, and off-road it’s about a brazillion times better than a rigid bike…Honestly, what am I missing?

You are not missing anything if that is the bike you prefer to ride and don't want/need to go any faster, although if you are doing 17mph on road an on MTB you would probably be doing 18-19mph on a gravel bike for same effort. Same applies to gravel roads.

It is all down to the bars and tyres. Put drop bars and fairly slick tyres on your MTB and it will be similar, the suspension fork won't be holding you back.

If your hardtail MTB is a brazillion times better then you are not riding the sort of terrain a gravel bike is made for. They are made for road and hardpacked gravel, not riding down rocky, rooty or tricky single track. They can do all that but an MTB is better for the rocky/rooty stuff.

@nickc - you are not missing anything.

Ride the bike that most suits you.

I like my do it all road and tracks bike. However if I had to buy it again, I would be going the flat / alt bar route and more "touring" gearing as the stuff on my bike is way over geared.

Got you, so I should be thinking as these bikes like more* capable road bikes, rather than less* capable mountain bikes. I've not really paid much attention to them TBH as I'm not much of a drop bar fan.

*for a given value of capable

Got you, so I should be thinking as these bikes like more* capable road bikes, rather than less* capable mountain bikes. I’ve not really paid much attention to them TBH as I’m not much of a drop bar fan.

Differently capable 😉

My gravel bike is surprisingly capable in some pretty MTB type terrain, but my god it requires more effort and concentration, which is fun in it's own way, like the equivalent of cleaning a really tricky rootsy singletrack on the MTB.

Sounds like you should just think of them as your next n+1, don't give up your MTB but prepare to be surprised and delighted by how much fun drop bars and sketchy slick tyres can be off road 😎

Plus in winter I reckon EVERYBODY should be riding CX bikes instead of plodding around on their MTBs in the mud, so stick some spiky 33s on your gravel bike and REALLY learn to love mud.

I did give up my MTB for the gravel bike, but for space reasons more than anything. Like a lot of people on this thread, my gravel bike (a Mason Bokeh) lets me go ride off-road without having to get to the riding first via driving or some other form of transport. I can do a 100km gravel ride down to say, Leith Hill, with more than 50% of it off road, from my door. I count this as a major win living in west London.

Because when I bought it I thought I'd use it for commuting as well it's only got Gravelking SK 35s on it, but when they wear out I'll definitely try something wider.

Sounds like you should just think of them as your next n+1

No, not really, like I said I'm not a drop bar fan, I have a roadie, but it mostly sits on the rollers for when the weather/ground is rubbish and I can't be bothered to clean gear/bikes. I'm not in the market for one of these bikes, but I keep seeing threads for them, just wondering what the deal is really.

Just like there are 20 different kinds of mountain bike there are also 20 different kinds of gravel bike. My gravel bike is a road bike with small off road capabilities, my friend's gravel bike is probably better off road than my hardtail was.

If you want a gravel bike then buy one but remember that just like your first mountain bike, its not going to be perfect.

Got you, so I should be thinking as these bikes like more* capable road bikes, rather than less* capable mountain bikes.

That is exactly what I think they are and a point I made many years ago.

I forget which website it was but they basically said the gravel bike is the road bike the general public should buy.

@boombang I've got a Ribble CGR 725 which came with 650b wheels and 47mm WTB Byways, which are surprisingly not slow on the road - at least for the kind of riding I do, probably not for fast group rides though! I've got a few long road rides coming up so I've just got a second set of 700c wheels with Gravel King Slick 38mm. When I ordered the bike I was thinking a future set of road wheels would have something more like 28-32mm tyres on. But having ridden the Byways for a few months I couldn't bring myself to give up all of that volume, hence 38mm as a compromise. Only done 100km in them so far but I'm haopy. Again though I'm no racer.

That's really useful thanks.

I'm a gnat's cock off selling my Scott Spark as never got on with flat bars and only love it when riding technical stuff - the last time I did that was a year ago. Wonderful bike, plush and fast, but just doesn't work for me where I live.

I do fast road rides so probably would stick with 30-32mm road tyres out of habit (used to run a CAAD 12 rim brake with 28mm Schwalbe Ones, they ended up 30.5mm and there was ample comfort with no sacrifice of pace I could tell).

The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.

I forget which website it was but they basically said the hybrid is the road bike the general public should buy.

FTFY

my Scandal, it’ll happily do 16-17mph on the road, and off-road it’s about a brazillion times better than a rigid bike…Honestly, what am I missing?

I know this has probably already been answered, but I can compare my Tripster (pre-gravel bike category gravel bike 😉 ) to my Yeti Big Top. Big Top is a proper light XC 29er, but doesn't compare on road or easy tracks to the Tripster. Partly the geometry, but also the gear ratios. I tried riding the Yeti to work once - got there noticeably more knackered than when I ride the Tripster.
I reckon where you're 17mph on your Scandal, you'd be 19-20mph on a gravel bike.
Then again I tried to ride the Tripster up a steep, rooty offroad track the other day and didn't get anywhere near as far as I would've on the Yeti.
Swings n roundabouts innit.

I bought a gravel bike a couple of years back (a Surly Straggler), and have to confess I am erring on the viewpoint thats its a jack of all trades and master of none, well 1 trade and that is (no surprises) compressed gravel tracks (e.g. New Forest). I rode it on Sunday, blast for 2 miles along a gravel farmers track, great, hit a load of dried cattle-trodden lumpy mud, suddenly I was being shaken to pieces and wishing I had the MTB instead. I think its fine if you pick your route, but in terms of "adventure" I am becoming more reticent to use the gravel bike to head off to the unknown as it too easily gets out of its depth (and having to push is not fun as far as I am concerned). It also is much less fun to ride on the road than a road bike unsurprisingly.

If there is one redeeming feature I notice about riding the gravel bike its that it beats me up much quicker than the MTB, to the point where I find after 30 or 40 miles of mixed riding I am actually thankful to get back onto a smooth road and starting to avoid off road sections, which kind of defies the point. It has re-kindled my interest in off road riding although future £££ will be spent either upgrading or replacing my XC MTB with something a bit lighter. Overall I guess it partly it comes down to the terrain around you.

For me where the gravel bike does work well is for lunch break / quick evening rides, say 1 hour where I want to ride quickly on the road to some known good gravel tracks and back again.

For me where the gravel bike does work well is for lunch break / quick evening rides, say 1 hour where I want to ride quickly on the road to some known good gravel tracks and back again.

I only ever do 2 hour rides with majority of the ride on New Forest gravel roads and agree they are the perfect bike for that. Not really sure why I don't ride one...

The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.

I was very close to going for a lighter set of 650bs with something like Rene Herse Compass Hill Extralights on for 'road' wheels...

I made the mistake of selling my mtb in January 2019, the replacement was put on order and has been since. Lesson to learn: don't sell your mtb before a global pandemic.

Anyways, this left me with a cx bike and a road bike. The cx bike had been a whim. Barely used, not appreciated. Que rhe pandemic and its been my default. I love it. Its really comfy on the crappy roads, if when I'm out riding I see a trail that looks interesting, I ride it. I've ridden on the Surrey Hills, some of the Ridgeway, canal path, local woody rooty singletrack, isle of Wight, its great.

But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)

But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)

It is different (mainly higher BB) but the difference is very small when it actually comes to riding.
I have ridden many different bikes on road and gravel and to me at least there is a lot of over thinking and exaggeration about the differences in regard to riding on gravel roads.
I switched to a rigid SS MTB with 2.3 tyres for a few months earlier in the year but am now back on a fixed gear track frame with 28c tyres.
In theory very different bikes but in practice, after a few rides they are just bikes that both ride well on gravel roads. I would happily ride either but I just have a bit of a thing with fixed gear after riding fixed for 90%+ of the time over the last 20 years.

Fixed gear off road is loads of fun but not sure I could do it that much.

But this is a cx bike. Probably different to a gravel bike;-)

Mine is effectively a CX bike. Thinking about rhorn's comments about comfort, I notice it less on my gravel bike, but I also notice my gravel bike tends to 'encourage' head down/flat out sort of riding, it has never been a cruiser. Wonder if this has something to do with CX geometry etc (although I've tried to mitigate it as much as possible with lots of spacers/riser bars etc).

Or maybe it is just me, and that always trying to go flat out in a big gear is just the more comfortable way of riding bumps and ruts. Most of the discomfort I notice is at the end of longer days (5hr plus) and in the hands.

For gravel riding which I do a lot I far prefer the comfort of and MTB over a drop bar bike. for urban riding I want flat bars for best braking and control. I simply do not care that a drop bar bike is a bit faster

So for me there is no point in a gravel bike - its worst of both worlds but that just my preference

I did a 25 mile gravel ride on my fatbike yesterday. I also do gravel rides on my road bike on 25 mm tyres

but I also notice my gravel bike tends to ‘encourage’ head down/flat out sort of riding, it has never been a cruiser.

I find that is down to the bars. If I put drop bars on I tend to spend most of the time in the drops to get the efficiency/speed and when I get home I wonder where I rode as didn't see much of it!
That why I ride with flat bars as it stops me doing that.

That why I ride with flat bars as it stops me doing that.

Yeah, maybe I do need to drag the 29er out and try this, I genuinely think I'm just more comfortable/happier on the bike when (trying) to go flat out all the time, it might be a weird consequence of my back issues though, I think bigger gears/more power output engages the glutes better or something. Recently any easy/sit up/Z1 rides tend to result in more back pain than going out and chasing segments or hammering it. Weird, but also a massive tangent from this thread 😎

The idea of a 45mm+ 650b tyre is intriguing.

How about 50mm 700 tyres?

Even 'better'.

I forget which website it was but they basically said the gravel bike is the road bike the general public should buy.

Yep..

I'd actually say that road bikes are more niche than a gravel bike.

A good gravel frame will take skinny to fat tyres and 650b's to get even more volumes of air and fatter tyres, giving more choice of tyre for the desired terrain.

Way more versatility as opposed to some road bike with a 23-25 and zero chance of going up in size.

Crashing thru potholes on my 32's is much more pleasant and more forgiving than on 23's.

Although I think the key to happy Gravel Bike ownership is whether it's suited to the terrain your planning on riding the most.

Apologies for the post highjack, however I think my queries would be better here than starting a new thread.

I’m in a similar situation to the OP, only with less balls, in that I’m gravel curious, but haven’t committed yet.

I used to have a Boardman CX a couple of years ago, and it wasn’t my jam…the tyres were Conti CX 35mm, the brakes were TRP Spyre mechanical brakes (set up what I believe to be correctly), and everything else was as it came from the factory….and I absolutely hated descending on it, the tyres were harsh and bumpy, and the brakes were pathetic. Climbing and on the flat was great however, especially since any increase in effort resulted in a noticeable increase in speed. Also I never really got onto the drops much due to an excessive diet making thinks a little uncomfortable (looking a bit better in that department, but the front definitely felt low).

Fast forward to today and I’m spending more and more time on my Scandal happily pedalling around the local bridleways and fireroads etc, with a few link roads in between…that combined with new bike fever and everyone else having one is making me look more at gravel bikes.

How much different would something like a Sonder Camino be compared to the old CX, would it be worth taking the plunge, or at least spending more time investigating? I’m about 5 miles from by local trails, so I’m not forced to drive to do anything interesting, and everything round here (close to Guisborough) is rather hilly and generally a bit rough.

I appreciate that I could just hire one for the day (not sure if that’s covid permitted), but I thought I would ask on here first.

I simply do not care that a drop bar bike is a bit faster So for me there is no point in a gravel bike – its worst of both worlds but that just my preference

Yeah, after looking at gravel bikes, and wondering "how/why is this better than my Scandal" I've pretty much come to exactly the same conclusion

@mtbqwerty probably not different enough to change your mind. By the sounds of it you'd end up changing it into a rubbish rigid mountain bike, in which case just get a lightweight hardtail.

@mtbqwerty probably not different enough to change your mind. By the sounds of it you’d end up changing it into a rubbish rigid mountain bike, in which case just get a lightweight hardtail.

40+ tyres, flared bars and better brakes might though.

At which point you're starting to drift into crap mountain bike territory.

If you don't like drop bars/don't use the drops and don't like being a bit lower than on an MTB then don't bother. Most bikes will ride okay on the road and on gravel so no need to try and force yourself to like something that you just don't like.
If you hated a CX bike with 35c tyres then I wouldn't bother with a gravel bike as they are not different enough for you to hate one but love the other.

What’s the benefit of a gravel bike over a 29er with suspension?

I built a rigid 29er, with fat tyres, then I tried it with suspension forks. It was much faster on rough downhills (of course) but worse everywhere else. It's hard to describe, but when pedalling away on smooth trails or road it just felt far less positive. Perhaps because of the extra weight, the extra flex compared to a rigid fork, or the little bit of travel that it still had even when 'locked out' (it was a Rockshox fork with the poplock thing), but I'm not really sure. But I put the (admittely pretty nice) rigid carbon fork back on and haven't changed back. It's just so lovely to ride. Perhaps it's the fact the head angle is steep, which gives great handling and weight balance, but it doesn't chuck you over the bars on step downs as it doesn't steepen up further. I really don't know and I'm not one for sentimental bollocks when it comes to bike handling, but I do like it better rigid.

The only differences between gravel and rigid MTB, assuming you can fit the same size tyres, are possibly weight, depending on bike; tyre size; handlebars; and gearing. For me, gearing is the big one as there are lots of steep rough trails here and even if I were a good enough climber to make the gradient on gravel gears, the roughness of the terrain would make it far harder again.

The 29er isn't as quick on road, but it's certainly not slow. There are rides here that would include 60-70% road to get to some lovely trails - on these I might save half an hour on a gravel bike on a 5hr ride.

That half an hour could be another 10km for some people but for me it's not about speed or time, it's about focus.

Where do I want my bike to perform most?

Road < 50% > off road

Anywhere in the 40-60% range there's overlap but if it's closer to road choose a gravel bike, if it's closer off road 60% choose a lightweight mountain bike.

I don't get the confusion and bickering about gravel bikes, choice isn't a bad thing, there aren't countless threads about DH bikes being marketing chuff because a super enduro can deal with 99.999999999999% of one person's riding.

Thanks for the additional responses, folks.

With the first ones, I was more than happy to save a grand and not bother gravelling up, as I probably would be making it more suited to off than on-road...then the latter ones came in, and I was looking at maps, increasing the road mileage to make the longer mtb rides a bit longer, because its quicker etc...anyway I'm back to square 1.

Next stop is a demo (when they become available)

I have had a Sonder Camino since January this year and have ridden on it all my previous MTB with the exception of Lee and Cragg Quarries.

My Orange 5 has remained in the shed until only last night when I had a blast out on it over the tops.

Both are incredibly capable in their own right.

If I had a choice of one it would be the Camino.

With it I can get out on the road (a second ride up Cragg Vale last weekend as part of a 60k hack out) and as others have reflected getting off road as well.

Knowing I was always “over biked” with the 5 makes for me at least the Camino being more suited to my riding style and comfort zone.

Are they this year’s marketing trend, almost certainly, are they fun, even more so.