[Closed] Just bought a 180mm skill compensator. Help me justify it to myself.

Ride some bigger stuff, do some uplifts. More bikes equals more fun.

book an uplift.

without knowing what it is...... if you ride the same old trails on it, i think you are going to suffer, lots, on anything other than the downs.

when i got myslef a 7inch bike and went to the same local places i felt like i was going slow even tho i was going quite a bit faster. you can still have fun its just gona hurt more wen it goes rong

180mm for trail riding - LOL

cant you send it back?

"Skill compensator" is such a stupid term and I think I've only ever seen used here.
Proper long travel only really works if you have decent skills in the first place

Proper long travel only really works if you have decent skills in the first place

Sorry to sound offensive, but what a load of BS.

An average rider will be quicker on a rough downhill section on an LT full sus because you actually have to have skills to ride a HT fast, a LT full sus bike does all the work for you.

write 'I should have bought a DH bike' one hundred times.

But is going faster actually making that person a "better" rider?

But is going faster actually making that person a "better" rider?

No.

Thanks for the support! I always wanted a bigger bike. There is some DH locally that it will get used on. There are also places a drive away that would certainly warrant that kind of bike. Just always found it hard to justify it to myself.

Hopefully it will be a happy n+1 addition and in truth has saved me from road bike curiosity for time being. Looking forward to the weekend to give it a decent tryout.

No.

Yes, after spending time doing uplifts on the Pitch I found I was much faster on the Rigid 29er, you just get used to the different perception of what is 'fast'. I then spend time on the rigid 29er and go back to the Pitch for trail rides and go even faster as I've a new perception of what feels in controll. Repeat ad nauseum.

If I had a 180-200mm bike I'm sure I'd get the same effect between that and the Pitch.

The ultimate example is getting a motorbike, re-defines 'fast'.

Does it pedal ok? Or is it a downhill sled?

I can't actually think of a 180mm bike that isn't a mini-DH bike or a freeride bike.

Basically, I can't imagine wanting it unless I was being uplifted. It would be great if I lived within reach of a DH course with an uplift.

tinas has a point - there's a reason why loads of the top downhillers come from a motocross background.

Don - I wasn't talking about hardtails.
IMO if you can't ride a 140mm full sus well you'll ride a 180mm one just as badly.

because you actually have to have skills to ride a HT fast, a LT full sus bike does all the work for you

I totally disagree with that. You have to work a full suspension bike just as you would a hardtail and probably more so to get the full use out of.

I totally disagree with that. You have to work a full suspension bike just as you would a hardtail and probably more so to get the full use out of.

Agreed if it is smooth technical terrain, disagree if it is straight line rough and sort of on the fence if it is rough technical.

But there's bike geo too which really has to be considered. A hardtail isn't just a hardtail just as a full sus isn't just a full sus.

Just been for a spin round the block. Well i say spin. Very draggy tires and a head angle that seems very strange to me.

Not looking forward to the ups this weekend. still the training I have been getting in the last few months might mean I don't explode inside the first one hundred yards.

Will report back once ridden in anger.

deanfbm - Member

But is going faster actually making that person a "better" rider?

Ultimately I think it will. Some time spent on a bigger bike will get a rider used to bigger speeds, help them hit sections harder, give them confidence to attempt bigger jumps and drops, or hit the same jumps and drops harder. Faster entry speed into corners necessitates better technique to maintain flow etc

When they go back to a shorter travel bike they'll probably realise it's just as feasible on a lesser bike, but mightn't have had the confidence to push those limits had they not had time on the bigger bike. At the end of the day any riding will make you better than sitting on yer ass.

What is it?

wiz74 - Member

What is it?

You haven't said what it is yet!

It may well numb the fun out of the downs and make you curse on the ups, or open up new areas to ride.

I wouldn't ride a 180mm bike on my local singletrack, but would on the DH lite we have here. Explore areas with steeper terrain and get used to pushing back up.

I love my Attack Trail (140mm), burly and full of fun but a bit of a drag on the way back up. Before buying it I was looking for a DH bike or even a 160mm. I had a Trance with a Pike and started abusing it so wanted to step up. I have no desires to gain more travel now, it's only 0.5" more than the Trance but a very different beast.

I think your situation may mean branching out into new terrain, not riding the same stuff with more squish. But that's no bad thing; horses for courses!

Or stick it on Pinkbike and get a 140mm bike 😉

http://www.scott-sports.com/global/en/products/221736007/bike-genius-lt-30-m/

One of these.Was going cheap.

If you live somewhere where you can hook up lots of big rough descents on a long pedally ride then I can see it being fun - XC along and up interspersed with natural DH runs.

head angle that seems very strange to me.

My guess is 180's were cheap as they don't suit (and are out of the design spec range) for the bike's most of us ride.

What bike have you put them on ?

awesome,

I think you should enter the megavlanche next year!

Sorry, I just realised you bought a whole new bike (link broken for me) ! I thought you had bought forks for your current frame. Sounds like it's just for uplift days and lift assisted Alps riding then.

When they go back to a shorter travel bike they'll probably realise it's just as feasible on a lesser bike, but mightn't have had the confidence to push those limits had they not had time on the bigger bike.

This has been my experience.. i regularly go between riding my 180mm fs and 120mm ht. Can ride all the same trails on the ht but probably wouldn't have had the confidence to try them in the first place without the fs... i don't really get the skill compensator thing either since jumping etc is much harder work on a full sus.

Don - I wasn't talking about hardtails.
IMO if you can't ride a 140mm full sus well you'll ride a 180mm one just as badly.

And yet, they'll find it easier, (arguably, depending on the downhill) go faster and likely [i]have more fun[/i].

Isn't that, like, the point?

I made a mistake buying a 180mm bike, turned out the stuff it was designed for was bigger than my balls/brain would let me do. It was OK on the occasional trail ride just because it was different but certainly not a good choice as a regular ride. So if you're planning on DHing or Alps type stuff then it should be great, otherwise you've just bought a heavier, slower (most of the time) version of your 140mm bike.

And yet, they'll find it easier, (arguably, depending on the downhill) go faster and likely have more fun.

Isn't that, like, the point?

Flattening the trail out so much you feel like you are riding on the road isn't my idea of fun. There are only a few places in the UK you would need 185mm of travel, non are trail rides.

Going fast is only a part of it, being on the edge, feeling the trail through the bike, you kind of miss all that when you are over biked, unless you are riding something really gnarly.

This has been my experience.. i regularly go between riding my 180mm fs and 120mm ht. Can ride all the same trails on the ht but probably wouldn't have had the confidence to try them in the first place without the fs... i don't really get the skill compensator thing either since jumping etc is much harder work on a full sus.

I've never ridden a full sus but I can totally see why this would be the case! Also riding the same trails quicker on a full sus should improve your ability to handle a bike at speed, so you can then ride the hardtail faster. And the Genius is meant to be able to climb and pedal ok, it's more long travel AM bike than mini DH bike.

Learning the correct skills and building confidence to go faster on a HT would be a logical, as they make you a 'better' rider.

Well at least that Scott has a chance of being rideable due to the adjustable travel/shock and bar mounted controls.
Plus it's not a slack-as-anything sled.

31.50 lbs certainly doesn't rule it out of everyday use.

It'll be interesting to see how you get on. It seems to be designed from the outset to be an all mountain bike, rather than a mini-downhill bike.

33.22 lbs with pedals, the frame weighs 7.43 lbs 😯

Well, I've just gone from a 120 bike to a 160 bike and I regularly ride a fully rigid bike as well. The 160 bike I have is capable of crazy speed but I'm not yet got my head around it yet and timing myself I find I'm not that much faster on it yet. I will be, but I'm not yet comfortable with the increase in speed. The idea that you can just get on a bike and go faster because there is more travel is wrong.

You have to work the suspension bikes more to get them to pop where as a hardtail you can just hit something and it'll fly, and sliding them takes more to learn. I rarely get jumps wrong on the hardtail, where as the full supsension means I have to be sure to push the rear into the slope, or the suspenion just squishes the lift and I start fliping forward.
You are also often moving at higher speed, so while I can push the limits of grip on the hardtail and I'm happy getting out of shape on it, doing so on a full suspension takes a bit of time to get my head around it all.

The idea that it's a 'skill compensator' is just nonsense. IMHO. Glad whoever thinks this doesn't work for the UCI.

I know @thedon is posting with his tongue very firmly in cheek, but OP give it a go and see how you get on, it should be great fun on the downhills.

Flattening the trail out so much you feel like you are riding on the road isn't my idea of fun. There are only a few places in the UK you would need 185mm of travel, non are trail rides.

Going fast is only a part of it, being on the edge, feeling the trail through the bike, you kind of miss all that when you are over biked, unless you are riding something really gnarly.

So do moto gp racers have no fun because they ride a flat track, and only enduro or moto-x riders are really "riding"?

Here's a hint; your idea of fun isn't everyone's idea of fun. Stop trying to make the OP feel bad, it only sounds like you have something to prove.

One of the guys I ride with has a 180mm FS, he MTFU's the hills and screams the descents - he enjoys it, and we live near to Inners/GT.

But, for myself, I had a 150mm FS and it only made sense when I was going too fast (for my skill/experience). And now I probably ride just as quick on my 140mm HT.

So riding a full suspension makes you a better rider LOL

Only on STW....

[quote=thedon]Flattening the trail out so much you feel like you are riding on the road isn't my idea of fun. There are only a few places in the UK you would need 185mm of travel, non are trail rides.

Going fast is only a part of it, being on the edge, feeling the trail through the bike, you kind of miss all that when you are over biked, unless you are riding something really gnarly.

Oh dear, oh dear 🙄

You will never have too many bikes!

I've had every permutation of mtb imaginable and I've finally "settled" (yeah right 😉 ) on my current set up:

DH bike for DH
Long travel HT for everything else

Works a treat, I do occasionally miss some bounce on the rear for long days in the saddle, but for most of my non DH riding, the HT is more than adequate. If I want to go fast downhill, I take out the big bike and go on an uplift day, none of this "it's a trail bike which can be a little hard going on the ups, but more than makes up for it on the downs" crap anymore 🙂

Don't be daft.

Are you seriously going to trundle sedately about on it? If so, you've wasted your money.

If you like to ride as fast as you can, then you will be able to go a whole lot faster on this (on most trails) and have a boatload of fun.

The idea that you can just get on a bike and go faster because there is more travel is wrong.

On a smooth trail, I agree. However big bikes aren't the same with more travel. They are stiffer, heavier, have slacker angles, wider bars, shorter stems, better brakes, wider rims, bigger tyres, bash rings (often), stiffer forks, better suspension controls etc.

All that really helps you go a lot faster. And if it's rocky, you can go much much faster.

I have a 63mm XC race bike, a 5, and a 170mm Patriot that weighs in at 31lbs like yours. I love it to bits, and go long periods taking it on my local loops instead of my 5. I don't notice the weight after a while, and I come from a mid 90s lightweight fully rigid background!

Ultimately I think it will. Some time spent on a bigger bike will get a rider used to bigger speeds, help them hit sections harder, give them confidence to attempt bigger jumps and drops, or hit the same jumps and drops harder. Faster entry speed into corners necessitates better technique to maintain flow etc

When they go back to a shorter travel bike they'll probably realise it's just as feasible on a lesser bike, but mightn't have had the confidence to push those limits had they not had time on the bigger bike.

This is exactly what I experienced.