[Closed] Jeremy Vine’s west London family cycle

That was all pretty tame compared to what I see a lot of the time when I'm out on the road. Not that I'm belittling it, it's awful that cyclists have to put up with this all the time.

There's quite a number of Chiswick locals that think that the world has ended because there's less road to drive on along Chiswick High Road.

I cycle along it every morning, admittedly the new cycle lane isn't that great as it has a lot of additional stops compared to the roadway, and it floods badly after not that much rain.

So, did the weird, angry filmers mainly show up because Vine has been plugging this on the radio?

I find this stuff genuinely quite upsetting. Particularly where kids are involved giving that it's their only means of independent transport and an important part of their development. I get the 'othering' thing, but even then the level of hate is hugely disproportionate. It's the worst of humanity.

Sooner computers control cars the better. That chap holding the sign will soon be in resuss the state of him, needs to embrace cycling or any exercise.

So, did the weird, angry filmers mainly show up because Vine has been plugging this on the radio?

I don't listen to R2 but I assume if he'd been plugging it, then it's at least partly a knowing effort to draw out the 'Antis' and generate some fuss/clickbait/jabbering points for his show.
I'm cynical about Jeremy's motives TBH.

I think there are people that relish the idea of a "War" between bicycle users and motorists, on either "side". In real life such ****tery is mostly concentrated in certain locales at certain times of day, was that factored into the event planning? (and if so in what way?)

It's worth noting (this might seem like road-rage apologist stuff) they were stopping in front of traffic, blocking off roads and green lights on filters, they knew they were going to get beeped by impatient arses (handy for the Twitter vid though eh?).
Half those west-Londoners probably thought it was another IB protest kicking off, the others were watching "bloody cyclists RLJing" on mass and (to their minds at least) "teaching their kids to do it as well" So the lazy narrative gets fed a bit more too.

It might be an "organised" and "marshalled" event, but if know you're going to have young kids participating and a large volume of bikes, do you seek out a route through areas of known "conflict" along traffic heavy streets and let the local chief Mondeo-warrior know your coming on national radio?
Seems like maybe Jeremy wanted to stimulate another phone-in segment...

Perhaps there are some allies that those of us who ride bicycles could maybe do without?

Perhaps there are some allies that those of us who ride bicycles could maybe do without?

Agreed, it seems to be an immensely unpopular piece of cycling infrastructure and this just seems to be an attempt to rub it in. When you could be cycling along the river in a traffic free environment why would you choose to cycle along Chiswick High Road.

Even if you agree that it is a bit click-baity. He's basically right: The anger is inexplicable.

why would you choose to cycle along Chiswick High Road.

I think that's rather the point.

Vine probably did everything he could to make this controversial. His radio show is like listening to the daily Mail

Vine probably did everything he could to make this controversial

I know, by cycling along the road...What a hate monger. I'm mostly not a fan of the twitter cycling campaigner forever filming petty acts of driving discourtesy for clicks, but people feeling that they need to stage "a ride" feels like something has gone wrong in our society, and the anger that people have as a reaction to the fact the a group of folks have had to do that seems misplaced and weird.

Yeah, did he do this "for the kids" or for his show?

If, for the kids - could've taken them somewhere nice. But then again, why not demonstrate that kids cycle and should be able to cycle in these places?
I dunno. But then he is a **** anyway.

It's noteworthy how many people on a cycling forum are prepared to accept that the ride was deliberately antagonistic without, as far as I can see, any evidence whatsoever. Noteworthy and saddening.

Regardless of what anybody thinks of Vine, we all know these reactions are commonplace across the UK.

I seen a comment in one of these Twitter threads the other day where somebody argued that children should only cycle in parks. In other words, if they want to ride a bike, they must rely on their parents driving them to a safe place, and then driving them back home.

To anyone who has spent any time on Twitter it's fairly obvious this is not an uncommon opinion. You will regularly hear how kids cannot and should not use bikes as a form of transport. It's incredibly sad and a huge detriment to society.

It’s noteworthy how many people on a cycling forum are prepared to accept that the ride was deliberately antagonistic without, as far as I can see, any evidence whatsoever. Noteworthy and saddening.

Very much my view. I'm not a fan of him or his show, don't know the background to this, but how can families using cycle lanes cause that level of reaction?

You will regularly hear how kids cannot and should not use bikes as a form of transport. It’s incredibly sad and a huge detriment to society.

Where my Mum lives, the council opened up their consultation on their new Low Traffic Neighbourhood schemes to children attending the schools within the area, most of which are now benefiting from School Streets, pop up cycle lanes and filtered roads. OMG. The anti-groups who were previously complaining about lack of consultation now complained that it was the wrong type of consultation.

Imagine asking CHILDREN for their view?! They're not world-wise enough to know about road closures, they're being used as pawns in the council's game, their opinion shouldn't count because they're not working adults contributing to society, they ride dangerously, they're exposed to peadophiles who could snatch them off their bikes... 🙄

Naturally, the kids love cycling to school, it's amazing to see these great pelotons of kids chatting and laughing as they ride along streets previously clogged solid with cars.

Regardless of what anybody thinks of Vine, we all know these reactions are commonplace

I have cycled in London for over 35 years, I always found it a perfectly pleasant place to cycle either alone or with my daughter, very rare to encounter any negativity.

I personally believe in give and take so think it is pretty dumb to organize a ride for a large group of people along the main commercial street in the area when there are plenty of alternatives.

^ You're expressing this negativity yourself...

You’re expressing this negativity yourself…

Nope.

Nothing scares the people of London like seeing someone ride without a helmet. Forgot to put mine on the odd time and people look at you like you are a Bond villain 😂

Best thing for most of them would be to get on a bike and have some fun…

I personally believe in give and take

It's a pity more of the folk highlighted in Vine's film don't share your view.

when there are plenty of alternatives.

I think the point of the ride is to highlight the fact that bicycles shouldn't feel that they need to seek out alternatives. I mean, cycling along a motorway is clearly daft, but no city street should feel off limits to bikes, should it?

no city street should feel off limits to bikes

It isn't off limits, there is a very expensive bit of infrastructure for cyclists, however this ride also involved cyclists blocking traffic so they could ride through red lights etc. It is hardly surprising people get peeved and the helmet comments are aimed at Jeremy Vine, who annoys people. I never wear a helmet locally (and sometimes my daughter doesn't), never had a comment

this ride also involved cyclists blocking traffic so they could ride through red lights etc.

This. If they had treated each rider(or even family group) as an individual vehicle and reacted to traffic signals accordingly then there would have been less aggro. Being in a large organised ride (or road peleton) does not confer an automatic right to ignore traffic signals.

It isn’t off limits...

The statement you quoted was -

no city street should feel off limits to bikes

(My emphasis) There is a difference.

the helmet comments are aimed at Jeremy Vine, who annoys people. 

Again, this whole thing that somehow the anger is either understandable or justified because Jeremy Vine was there (wearing a helmet, unless he's woven the camera into his hair) is bizarre.

this ride also involved cyclists blocking traffic so they could ride through red lights etc.

That happens once in the clip (maybe it happened elsewhere - who knows?), and the cars are on their horns literally within a second of the lights going green. Sad to notice that it startled the little girl into taking her feet off the pedals and having a wobble, but yeah, I guess them car drivers got places to be, right?

There is a difference.

It doesn't feel off limits either - just a dumb place to organise a mass ride.

wearing a helmet, unless he’s woven the camera into his hair)

My mistake

just a dumb place to organise a mass ride.

If the point of your mass ride is to highlight that cycling is regarded by some as a 2nd class activity, then the place to do that would be...The local park? a back street where you'd not get noticed? stationary?

As someone said, it's sad when these are the reactions on a pro-cycling forum.

If the point of your mass ride is to highlight that cycling is regarded by some as a 2nd class activity,

So it is designed to make a "political" point - fine then don't cry foul when people air their grievances.

Cyclists have equal right to ride on pretty much any highway, motorways being the obvious exception.

Whilst specific cycle provision is A Good Thing, every time cyclists are bullied by drivers into using it, or bullied in to finding an alternative route, and then bullied some more for choosing to ride on the road, it really is pretty damning failure of 2-3 generations of road user education in this country.

I'm no fan of setting up situations or events deliberately to wind up the anti-cycling crowd, but I can genuinely see why they do it

A "wonderful family cycle" or a "mass ride to highlight that cycling is regarded by some as a 2nd class activity"?

Cyclists have equal right to ride on pretty much any highway,

And they should obey traffic signals and priorities while doing so. Do you need a "Marshall" on your family rides?

And they should obey traffic signals and priorities while doing so. 

To be fair, that applies to car drivers too, but I don't shit my pants in rage when one of them jumps a red light or is too busy on their phone to notice that the traffic jam's started moving again.

 fine then don’t cry foul when people air their grievances.

But people should be entitled to include those reactions as part of the protest though.  kinda reinforces the point neatly

kinda reinforces the point neatly

All it reinforces is division, achieves the square root of **** all, unless you consider likes on social media an achievement.

Ah - so we need to forget casual group rides or any other bike-related fun in order to not anger the cycle haters, I understand. 🙂

All it reinforces is division

So, no protesting then, just in case we upset the people in cars, got it...

It’s noteworthy how many people on a cycling forum are prepared to accept that the ride was deliberately antagonistic without, as far as I can see, any evidence whatsoever. Noteworthy and saddening.

It wasn't deliberately antagonistic? Are you sure?

Regardless of what anybody thinks of Vine, we all know these reactions are commonplace across the UK.

I disagree, most of my time spent riding on the roads isn't filled with angry beeping and shouting from strangers, I rode with my youngest to our local park the other day on roads and the limited cycling infrastructure and nobody abused us...

Chiswick isn't reflective of the country as a whole, bedsits are £1m a pop and the locals seem to despise cycle infrastructure (in a city with an active travel policy and an emissions zone) it's essentially another planet few can afford to live on...

This is very much a baiting exercise by a man who's main function is to court disproportionate outrage and angst on red-letter topics...

Just because he's on a bicycle, clutching his pearls and asking us to "think of the children" doesn't mean he deserves blind allegiance.

You see loads of families cycling in the area, there are lots of places to ride and have fun - it is a cracking place to live and cycle, improvements are achieved by working with people. People like Jeremy Vine are counter productive because they piss people off and then it becomes a battle between different factions.

And they should obey traffic signals and priorities while doing so.

It's a marshalled event with children. People wouldn't have the same reaction to the lollipop lady stopping traffic for children on their way to school, upsetting the normal order of priorities.

Actually, I know that not to be true. They do get abuse... Which is why this stuff is so important. The general priorities have become car first, children last, in nearly all circumstances.

It's not that way everywhere. There are proven alternatives that benefit everyone. Which makes it inexplicable that we not only allow it, but aggressively oppose any action to restore that balance and give freedoms back to children.

 it becomes a battle between different factions.

You mean between a wee girl on a  bicycle wobbling past a marshalled green light and a car driver sounding their horn a nanosecond after the light changes?...Seems fair

Maybe if you want to make a political point you shouldn't use your kids as a human shield.

Between wee girls on bicycles wobbling past a marshalled green light and a car driver…Seems fair

Well if he's managed to frame the discussion like that in your mind then job done.

Vine isn't interested in anything but causing polarised arguments that never achieve resolutions.

Maybe if you want to make a political point

Who was making a political point? I thought this was an organised family cycle ride?

Again there seems to be an assumption that the event was planned to fuel outrage for his show - is there any evidence that that's the case?

Maybe if you want to make a political point you shouldn’t use your kids as a human shield.

Whichever way you look at it, there's a grown man, aggressively shouting at small children, telling them to get off their bikes while they cycle in what looks to be a protected cycle lane. And you're somehow trying to argue that this behavior is in some way justified.

And you’re somehow trying to argue that this behavior is in some way justified.

One of life's nutters - tant pis.

That's an interesting shift from "the cyclists brought it on themselves".

Contrast the attitude in this country to Canada .Working there ( Whistler ) 2010 we helped a dig day with WORCA local off road cycling group .Kids needing to cycle to school had to navigate Highway 1 , we helped build a trail through the local woods to avoid this , when it was finished it would have been the envy of any trail centre in this country .We couldn't wait for it to bed in to ride it !

That’s an interesting shift from “the cyclists brought it on themselves”

Well he is highlighted in the video as a mad campaigner, so yes I think he is likely to be angry whatever the circumstances, the others more by the particular situation.

... he is likely to be angry whatever the circumstances, the others more by the particular situation.

The particular situation being families riding bicycles.

The particular situation being families riding bicycles.

In a dumb place.

A cycle path?

A cycle path?

Yes a cycle path down the main commercial road in the area - either they were trying to assert their rights or they chose a dumb place to have a nice organised group ride - either why I have no sympathy for them.

Well the campaigner / mentalist is known to be against the cycle path in general for reasons that are never made very clear but will be to do with road tax and car supremacy and little man syndrome so the ride of families having a nice day out is the equivalent of rubbing it in his gammony face.

Very common when (eg) a new skate park is built and residents (who have previously complained about kids having nothing to do) suddenly get upset that kids will have something to do.

He's one of those angry little men who would complain about cyclists if they were using the road, complain about facilities built for cyclists (waste of taxpayer money...) and the video should quite rightly call him out for his appalling behaviour.

As a way of introducing families and kids to the new path and showing the route, an organised ride is an excellent way of doing it and for reasons of event management, you want to keep it together, not spread it over 3 miles of road so marshalling a couple of crossings and getting everyone through is far more efficient and safe for everyone.

A cycle path?

anywhere that mefty and his friends are inconvenienced presumably

anywhere that mefty and his friends are inconvenienced presumably

Nowt to do with me, my experience with this stuff is that it is counterproductive, I have no time for zealots on either side.

As a way of introducing families and kids to the new path and showing the route, an organised ride

There was a big one organized in association with the Council on December 20, lots of positive comment on social media - emphasize the positve.

I have no time for zealots on either side

... but you think it's ok to describe kids on a bike ride as a 'human shield'.

If it angers gammons in cars I'm generally all for it. 😀

People wouldn’t have the same reaction to the lollipop lady stopping traffic for children on their way to school, upsetting the normal order of priorities.

You need to talk to the lollipop ladies and men, you'd be surprised and very sad what some of them go through.

Again there seems to be an assumption that the event was planned to fuel outrage for his show – is there any evidence that that’s the case?

Well 1 It had Jeremy Vines name attached, and 2 shortly afterwards his production team seem to have rustled up a rage-bait Twitter video. Obviously there's no overt statement of intent to go along with it, but the outcome seems to tick a few of those assumption boxes. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, etc...

I find the notion that he genuinely cares about cycling (especially in Chiswick) a questionable one. I doubt we'll ever agree on the motives each of us ascribe to the shameless exploiter of conflict.
But if this really was him "helping" to promote cycling, perhaps it's better if he simply doesn't?

Well 1 It had Jeremy Vines name attached, and 2 shortly afterwards his production team seem to have rustled up a rage-bait Twitter video.

1 - Did it? Beforehand?

2 - About ten days afterwards

Obviously there’s no overt statement of intent to go along with it, but the outcome seems to tick a few of those assumption boxes. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, etc…

What do you think this quack is meant to mean?

But if this really was him “helping” to promote cycling, perhaps it’s better if he simply doesn’t?

Where is that said? And what end would be better served by not highlighting anti-cycling behaviour?

I find the notion that he genuinely cares about cycling (especially in Chiswick) a questionable one.

You're aware that his twitter feed is essentially videos of his daily cycle commute and interactions with cars and other people on bikes?

You’re aware that his twitter feed is essentially videos of his daily cycle commute and interactions with cars and other people on bikes?

Don't come bringing facts into this to try and overturn people's preconceptions!

(I think he and his show are a total waste of my license fee, btw)

You’re aware that his twitter feed is essentially videos of his daily cycle commute and interactions with cars and other people on bikes?

Wouldn't that involve following Jeremy Vine on twitter? Sounds like the opposite of something I would actually want to do...

But from what you're saying he's made a habit of rolling round London looking for conflict, so he can tell his audience/twitter followers about it? Isn't that the very definition of feeding the narrative?

It's generous of you to make such a very specific assumption about the contents of a particular Twitter feed that you decline to view yourself.

Cheers! I shall proudly wear my general ignorance of Jeremy Vine's work like a badge of honour.
In much the same way I don't often read the Daily Mail or the Sun, all media consumption is optional.
I have had the minor misfortune to catch some of his R2 show in the past, it didn't really endear him or the listeners to me, quite why I'd sign up for more of his output via twitter is beyond me.

But I did watch the linked video from the start of this thread (Posted to Twitter by JV) and it looked like a clunky propaganda piece to me, apparently their was some sort of family cycling event in a wealthier suburb of London, but the main highlights shown were those that involved some flavour of abuse/conflict apparently directed at people on bikes. That is hardly going to encourage people to want to cycle, and I also don't believe it's actually a realistic reflection of most people's daily experiences of cycling in an urban setting, so selective presentation from an atypical event (you might call it 'misrepresentation' even). It seemed poorly planned unless the real intention was to illicit some negative interactions along the way to help drive the "War on Britain's Roads" narrative, in which case they did a great job.
It's not new or clever, this was put out almost a decade ago (By the Beeb):

And as ever the Trick is always in the editing suite: A bit more narrative sculpting.

So you have to consider the source and his MO; find something vaguely contentious, lob some rhetorical questions about, open the lines and see what you get... He's not a cycling advocate, he's a talk show host that need ratings and exposure for his job, it's counterproductive for the rest of us though, so like I said I'd rather he didn't "help".

Anyway I'm becoming repetitious now and I've had my say on the topic, feel free to unpick my opinions...

"There's this chap on the radio I don't like - I don't listen to his show or read his tweets, but that means I'm going to see anything that comes from him in a negative light". Not tricky to unpick. 🙂

Again the assumption without any evidence that I can see that this was in some way arranged by him, or that it was intended to cause aggravation.

Re -

selective presentation from an atypical event (you might call it ‘misrepresentation’ even)

Misrepresentation, you say? A reminder of the text on the actual tweet -

When I went out on a wonderful family cycle in wintry West London, it was overwhelmingly positive and well-received by those who saw us.

I think the message is plain and clear, it was a good ride that lots of people had a great time at, but there were a handful of idiots being idiots. I have no problem with idiots being called out, I still can't get my head around people on a cycling forum justifying anti-cycling idiocy.

But from what you’re saying he’s made a habit of rolling round London looking for conflict,

In so much that he's got a camera fitted as he, like others, finds cycling on roads a constant gamble.

He’s not a cycling advocate, he’s a talk show host that need ratings and exposure for his job

Perhaps have a look at his twitter? I'd say a good 80% of his content is cycling advocacy related either by his own posts or re-tweeting other cycling advocacy stuff, especially in London .

 it’s counterproductive for the rest of us though, so like I said I’d rather he didn’t “help”.

There's always room for different opinions on how to make roads safer for cyclists, but like it as not Vine reaches a massive audience, and I'd rather he be on the side of cycling than not.

He's regularly seen in the Chiswick area cycling. He lives there. And he's often riding his ordinary. I suspect he was riding it on this ride based on the height of the viewpoint.