[Closed] I've never had carbon, do I want carbon?

If you don't you'll wish you had.

Invisiframe it.

You don't need carbon but it sure sounds like you want carbon. Go carbon

It's an itch you need to scratch, probably.

Or get a cream.

Usually I'd say no, but those new aluminium Trannies do seem to be a bit on the porky side.

So you have my blessing to go carbon. Will you get the chance to demo one and make sure you like the feel of it?

If you don't you'll wish you had

Getting Carbon now will be cheaper than buying the Alu one, selling it when you realise you just have to have carbon, then buying the carbon one - quick maffs innit. 😀

Maybe turn it around, if money isn't the issue why would you not go for carbon?

Buy cheap, buy twice 😆

Maybe turn it around, if money isn't the issue why would you not go for carbon?

Morally I question spending that much TBH. a 5K build bike isn't twice as good as a 2.5K one, and it certainly wont make me twice as good. Weight of carbon, all good, but I've lost a 10th of my bodyweight recently and am feeling pretty fit. but then perhaps that is another reason to get carbon, to use my newfound fitness to the MAX.

Plus slight nagging fear of a rock strike on day 1

Another option - 2nd hand carbon.
Cheaper, less worry about scuffing it up, spend the rest on nice bits, new bearings etc.

If I'd saved up for three years I certainly wouldn't be buying second hand.

I scratched the itch and went carbon and dont regret it, I was quite precious of it at first but that soon went!

yes I won't be getting second hand, thanks for the suggestion though. It's the new smuggler I want.

oh yeah and tyre clearance is apparently less on the carbon frame

Fair enough. Go for a new carbon one then. No point in having regrets!

If you get the Alu on, you’ll always be wondering how much better the carbon one is. You won’t be bothered how much worse the alu one is if you go carbon

I have a carbon Patrol and an Alu Smuggler. The Patrol is a lot, lot lighter. I also like that if it does get damaged it can be repaired, while the alu Smuggler can't.

BUT, I bought the Patrol frame secondhand and it was £1100. Spending the extra, what, £1000 for a carbon frame can get jeffed. The aluminium Smuggler, despite it's heft, is still faster uphill than the Patrol, and I raced it at the Strathpuffer to a top ten position at the weekend. The extra money doesn't justify the minor increase in performance.

hypothetically then ... aluminium frame, spend more on carbon wheels... better performance upgrade?

Aluminium frame and aluminium wheels. You'll get aluminium wheels that're the same weight as carbon ones for much less money.

After reading this: http://www.mbr.co.uk/news/transition-carbon-smuggler-370718
I'd say get the carbon frame. Alu must be a lump if they had a 35lb bike. A proper lump.

stiffness etc with carbon wheels.... apparently its not all about the weight 🙂

edit @dezb that's a complete build no? I'd be frame only

Yes you want carbon.

If you spend a lot of money anyway, you might as well get the thing you really want.

It won't be worlds different, but there's something nice about knowing you've got the best thing you could.

[i]edit @dezb that's a complete build no? I'd be frame only[/i]

Oh definitely! A Smuggler 4, so I'd guess bottom of the range, but still.

I've had a carbon (RM Instinct) for a little while now and the carbon makes no noticeable difference to the stiffness - too many other variables to notice that, so I think it is all about the weight. And looks.

I'm going to swim against the tide and say no. You've got reservations about the carbon and those wont go away. If you buy it you are just as likely to feel silly about "wasting" the extra money on something that makes sod all difference to your enjoyment. Especially as there seems to be a bit of a swing away from carbon this year.

Do it. I'm now on my different 4th carbon frame since 2011, first a Mojo HD, then a 456C, Foxy Carbon and now my T130C RS and as far as materials go they've been solid, I've found geometry makes a bigger difference in truth.

The Carbon Smuggler is the #1 bike I'd be looking at to replace my T130 if/when I do ever feel the need too. The new SBG Transitions in alloy are hefty, and I mean really hefty! We had an XL Smuggler with the GX Eagle build and with pedals it was north of 34lbs. Felt it would survive a nuclear Apocalypse but christ that's heavy for a 120mm trail bike! I baulk at my T130 weighing a smidge over 30lbs so a bike thats 10% or more heavier is a no for me!

Doing the maths you could go easily sub 30lbs on the Carbon one, I reckon sub 29lbs inc pedals is doable without going silly with carbon wheels and crazy light parts. Plus there's also going to be the day you've just ripped a section of trail and you stop at the end and some other punter rocks up on a carbon one and you'll wish you went carbon, not alloy!

Yes, you want carbon. Just look at it, stunning bike.

Unless it makes a substantial difference to weight, or unless I was planning to sell it within 18-36months, I wouldn't bother. Santa Cruz CC frames seem to be substantially lighter than their default carbon brothers.

huh?

oh yeah and tyre clearance is apparently less on the carbon frame

Just saw this, which might change my recommendation, depending on how much less etc.

The extra money doesn't justify the minor increase in performance.

agree.

I'm going to swim against the tide and say no.

I swim in this "no" direction as well.

Aluminium: less hassle.
I buy my bikes "more often" and "cheap".
On the trail, biking with my pals: the carbon sleds aren't faster. But the owners have sooo much fear to smash them into the rocks.

Why does the weight matter? You and the bike will be only 1% lighter if you go carbon. The manufacturing process for carbon is less ethical and even less environmentally friendly. And when the carbon frames dies it’s barely recyclable (if it is recycled it’s massively downgraded in quality).

If you want to be a bear, why not be a Grizzly!

Carbon Sentinel!

Don’t make a decision without reading this article.

https://polebicycles.com/why-arent-we-going-for-carbon-frames/

I have an alu Trek Superfly FS, suppsedly an XC bike. I've built it up with old but expensive kit - XTR, carbon bars - exept for the wheels which are moderate if not heavy. The whole lot weighs 28lbs. Even with 1x and light wheels it's going to be 26lbs.

If it were carbon, it would be 24lbs, and that's much more like it for XC. It's a noticeable chunk of weight, when you are racing XC, but it costs a lot!

Regarding the sentinel, I have a DH bike, so that is the uber grizzly.

This would be my all day bike,built light if possible. I'm leaning towards it's an itch I must scratch

Don’t make a decision without reading this article.

https://polebicycles.com/why-arent-we-going-for-carbon-frames/

good point!
Ugly so...

I just went through this process with my new bike having owned and raced a Alu Anthem for 4 years.

I got a carbon one, invisiframed the chain & seat stays to protect against heel rub and the bottom half of the down tube to help against debris strikes.

Its beautiful.

I wanted carbon and got carbon, it made no real or imagined improvement to my enjoyment of bicycling so in that regard was a disappointment and waste of money. Eventually I sold carbon and replaced with metal, it made no discernible negative impact on my enjoyment of bicycling. YMMV

I bought my CV Strive last year. Was previously in by at the Alu models, but then they had a sale on. Ok, the Alu Bikes Werte also there to be had for had for even less, but what swung it for me was having a 170/160 bike at way under 30lb....

Was a little hesitant on the first ride, but don't GAF now and throw it down anything.

Conversely, my GF didn't want CF frame and has a Trance SX that isn't overly porky.

Something which doesn't really get mentioned on threads like this is the carbon footprint of carbon being quite a lot bigger than that of aluminium, which could be argued to be something worth thinking about, from how lots of singular choices can add together to make a difference.

The weight difference could possibly be offset by a wheel upgrade some time down the line, or getting fitter, or always having a poo at the start of the day. To my mind it's a win-win situation, with aluminium frames being greener as well as cheaper. It'll probably always be easier to tell if an aluminium frame is critically damaged, and easier to have it repaired too, but for me it's the carbon footprint which would mean I'd opt for aluminium over carbon fibre.

Was a little hesitant on the first ride, but don't GAF now and throw it down anything.

I've only ridden it once so I'm still like that. A bit nervous about a frenetic race start on Sunday...

I ordered a scout frameset last week and didn’t even consider the weight. If a carbon one was available I might have been swayed that way depending on looks.

Be interesting to see what weight it comes in at with the spec I’m going to build it with.

The weight difference could possibly be offset by a wheel upgrade some time down the line, or getting fitter, or always having a poo at the start of the day.

Not really. You can do all of those things AND get a carbon frame too. They aren't exclusive. I ride a carbon road bike, and I definitely don't hold poo in.

I definitely don't hold poo in.

Yep, despite what they all say, mols isn’t full of shit.

Here all week folks...

Alu must be a lump if they had a 35lb bike. A proper lump.

For the love of god when are people going to get with the 1960s and state weights in kg....