It removes the weekend base ride from my plan for a 40 min "Novice" race (i suspects its anything but). Ill have never ridden cx before the sighting lap.
Yes or focus on winter training then? Fun or an injury risk? 8)
Can you re-work your plan that week to replace a high intensity session with the race, and keep the base ride?
How serious are you about next year's goals?
If the answer is very, then stay on plan - as a time crunched athlete you need to be making the best of every session, and each session should have a specific physiological goal.
You can guarantee there'll be other people out there taking training very seriously.
On the other hand if next years goals aren't that important, go for it as it'll undoubtedly be fun (in a 40mins of agony) type of way.
No. i dont have the time in the week to do the 132km base i had originally planned for Saturday. All i have is Thursday and Friday lunch or late evening after the kids are in bed, time for which i shoudl arguably be resting for te race.
Fifeandy has it, promised myself to stick to plan. With two seasons experience now my fitness and strenght for XC is the majority item that'll improve my results.
If you enjoy riding at threshold for 50 minutes go for it. Race will be a bit like a serious flat out sprint, corner, sprint, wobble, skid, sketchy moment, get off and run up something steep, jump on, sprint, sketchy moment, sprint, rest for 8 secs on the downhill bit.... Repeat lap.. Try to keep up with fast people overtaking.. Mud.
IME It's actually a load of fun and very friendly
Yes, do it. Ride it like you stole it, or until you puke. Themes the rules.
You may hate it, you may not. I suspect you'll enjoy being passed and shouted at quite a lot, we're all a bit wide elbows and sharp tongues on the track, but your best mate when the racings over.
Don't forget the beer, or tequila.
No handups sonny, that's frowned upon.
You'll be asking "what tyres for" next, and we'll all comment on "black ones" 😆
Enjoy, post pics.
Another thing you can endlessly torture yourself over in minutiae?
HELL YEAH!!
(waits impatiently for 'How long to be a credible cx racer' thread).
😉 Hugz
There's a very good chance you'll enjoy it and a fairly low chance of injury (fewer crashes at CX races than crits/road races IME).
Physiologically, swapping out one session for another will have little difference if you're sticking well to the rest of your plan. However, if it's the kind of thing that will sit on your mind and make you annoyed at yourself then maybe think about giving it a miss.
Well quite, opportunities for 132k base with cake and coffee in the middle on a dry day will be few and far between soon...
Is it 29th / 30th Oct weekend?
Ohh, you're not coming to Munich are you 😀
A CX race is the same as an XC race, the same as a road race, just different ground. But the result will be the same, wherever you finish is the same as you'll finish.
They seem exceptionally hard and fast. But my 8 year old enjoys his races.
The novice races I've seen are very friendly, low entry and very relaxed. I wouldn't worry too much about resting for a novice race and even incorporate it as part of the 132km if you can - especially if you can get someone to meet tou with the cross bike. Warm up on your ride there, swap bikes, ride the course for a lap, race, ride home. I've seen lots ride to cross races on their cross bikes with a spare wheel strapped to their backs.
The main races tend to be very friendly, high entry, a bit more serious but a lot more fun (the higher entry gives more chance of getting in a tussle. The shouting is usually just a "on your right/left" and usually followed by a "thanks" even from the top guys.
I say do it. It's a ridiculously thrilling and challenging type of racing. We all meet up at different venues every Sunday, catch up on the chat, race our socks off, babble like maniacs after, then go home to train like mad for the next one.
Personally I'm faster now I've stopped following the long winded Friel type plans and train hard and race all year round, albeit with 2-3 blocks of rest annually, to mentally recover.
In reality, who actually peaks for 2 key races/year? Not good enough for that, so prefer to have fun trying to smash my mates up as regularly as possible.
Oh, and just enter your age group category (Seniors, I presume?). There's such a broad rage of abilities, you'll be just fine. If you can race xc, which you can, then nothing will bother you on a cx course.
All of the best racers do some CX racing. JDI.
Rife to it and ride home again, there's yer base miles right there, with a dollop of nailing yourself in the middle. (Assuming its c.40-50km away)
Agree that if you don't fancy riding there then definitely do the seniors. The novice races tend to be those relatively new to riding or competition as opposed to those novice to CX.
It's "only" a 40 minute novice race, if you start like you say you can, you may well win it. Saying that, if I were you I wouldn't be entering a novice event, go balls deep and straight into the relevant age category.
It's not like one 50 minute threshold effort is going to ruin a season is it.
Its in Milton Keynes this coming Saturday, Im in London. A bit far to ride.
Agree that if you don't fancy riding there then definitely do the seniors. The novice races tend to be those relatively new to riding or competition as opposed to those novice to CX.
I stand a good chance of being in thr top 10, there's currently six entrants. 😀
they're great fun.......give it a go.....what's the worst that can happen? 🙂
Don't enter novice, it'll be embarrassing as you'll probably drop everyone within minutes. You are an experienced racer after all.
I see Johnathan Dennis is riding in Seniors. Just stick on his wheel; you'll be alreet. 😆
epo-aholic - Member
they're great fun.......give it a go.....what's the worst that can happen?
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Had a quick peruse of other entrants. I reckon you'll do ok.
Do three sighting laps: 1st really slow, 2nd testing lines a bit faster, 3rd near race pace.
Allow 40 mins from you start time for this.
Got to give it to Kryton. His threads are always good value. 😀
Well quite, opportunities for 132k base with cake and coffee in the middle on a dry day will be few and far between soon...
Just get out earlier. I start at 06:30 on a Saturday to meet up with the club ride after 75km and can get an imperial century in by 1PM. Very domestically friendly. Just the 88 miles this weekend though as it was my first ride back from illness.
As for CX. Just do it. Training should be fun, it'a turbo session mud-fest. Building up mine now.
If it isn't in MK then this is Central league and my main experience of racing which I refer to above. My OH rode one of these novice races a few years ago off the back of about 5 rides in the previous few months and none of them off road!
Go straight in to the seniors, don't do the long ride there or back and treat it fairly seriously (by that I mean your preparation and warm up). If you want a route to do after the race from MK I can sort one for you. You'll have a fair amount of daylight after the race.
Just do it. If you're training for next XC season then one session not doing something other than what you're meant to be won't do much harm will it? Its not an exact science. But don't do anything daft like 100 miles before and then wonder why you didn't do as well as you thought you should have 😉
The biggest worry for me is that last year i missed about 1000k of base riding due to decisions like this. Ill have some C races to do (Gorrick Autumn/Winter).
Some mixed advice then, hmmm
Don't do it. Concentrate on doing what you'd planned to. This is just another distraction for you to fret/obsess over.
Im not fretting... oh wait...
🙂
DOn't be a fanny. Train there and ride back, just checked it on maps you'll be reet
Be careful mate, cross races can be fun! You seem to try and avoid this at all costs.
Ban this filth.
I dont have a cx bike, but not a bad plan...
I thought this winter base miles theory had been debunked. If you are pressed for time you get more benifit from hard sessions. CX is perfect for that. I find the whole vibe at CX races is similar to how mtb xc was back in the day. Plus no matter how fast/slow you are you all finish within a few minutes of each other. As others have said...be careful it can be very addictive! 😉
Nope, base miles have never been debunked, endurance forms the basis of training for all endurance sports. More recent research into polarised training has shown the best way to train is with a very high volume of very low intensity.
There was actually a great interview with our female rowers at the olympics that no-one picked up on. Despite the fact their event is less than 10mins long their training regime was very very predictable - it was founded upon long slow rows day after day. Same applies to cycling, running etc etc.
Where the line becomes more blurred is for 'time crunched' athletes, but even then you can't do nothing but intensity. Look round the internet and you'll find plenty of stories of people hammering out sweetspot sessions day after day, and in some cases overtraining so badly they hadn't recovered years later.
Going back to a traditional periodised approach, which i believe kryton is following with some slight tweaks to compensate for low volume - its about a steady build making training more and more race specific.
Taking skills aside, XC races are a blend of muscular endurance and anaerobic endurance, both of which are underpinned by good old fashioned slow mile munching endurance. The bigger the endurance base, the more potential you have to grow the muscular/anaerobic parts closer to spring.
What has been debunked (as there has never been any evidence) is that base should be exclusively low intensity and any intensity in that period will undo that work. Working on other fundamentals like force, pedalling economy and moderate muscular endurance sessions (tempo) during base makes very good sense.
Going back to a traditional periodised approach, which i believe kryton is following with some slight tweaks to compensate for low volume
Yes im pretty much followin TrainerRoads plans exactly, except until January my Weekend rides are longer base rides where possible, or TR's planned ride where weather dictates not.
Hence this week, imwill have done an ftp test tomorrow, an intensity turbo hour of 48x15sec anerobic sprints on Thursday then come what may Saturday. The weather is good but cool, im not restricted on time hence i can get 4-5 hours on the road.
The danger is , you do it, love it & then have to buy a cx bike. Ha.
Or, you could go like the clappers for an hour in Epping (whilst it's still dry), thus saving petrol and time on the M1.
You make everything sound so stressful. Do you actually enjoy any of your riding?
If you're going to have a go and not work yourself into a tizz about it, then this weekend is a good place to start as all the fast lads will be in Wales for the NT. Don't enter Novice, that's for proper beginners.
actually enjoy any of your riding?
This
When was the last time you just rode for the sake of riding without following some formulaic training approach?
I find the whole vibe at CX races is similar to how mtb xc was back in the day.
This. Only into my second cx season but i already prefer it to where xc is at the moment.
Can you not do your base on the Sunday? Don't race novice. Or if you can race novice then race senior straight after. That would be a workout!
I'd definately do it, I'd rather race than ride.
Have you asked your coach?
FWIW, i'd do the CX race, then do a shorter steady ride on sunday, 60-70k. With cake.
In fact, i've done that, hundreds of times.
And you could have cake after the CX too.
I'm disappointed you've chosen Milton Keynes over Munich 😆
When was the last time you just rode for the sake of riding without following some formulaic training approach?
Nearly every weekend since September.
Ive decided - as i failed to increase my power during an ftp test yesterday - to do the 130k base. Not only does it look like itll be a lovely day, it fulfils the above statement of enjoying myself through the country lanes as well as some good miles. I'm very time restricted so the opportunity to get 4 hrs on the bike and some headspace shouldnt be wasted.
Shame, I was looking forward to the 'what cx bike' thread, followed by the 'what tyre' thread, followed by the 'what tyre pressure' thread.
Most disappointed 😆
wrong decision I think. CX is an experience you've never had, and someone is lending you a bike to do it as they presumably think you'd enjoy it. You've been on plenty of 4 hr endurance road rides... live a little!
Me n Munqe chick entered the first race of last season for a laugh and a tester. She went on to win the league overall, I raced for top 10s. This year we're both getting gridded front row, rocking skin suits, obsessing about tyre choice and pressure and have "double headers" lined up where we race Central one day, Wessex the next.
If and when you try it do not race Novice. You are not a novice - you have road fitness and MTB skills.
+1 for the friendly vibe. Only my second season of racing CX (or anything else) and I'm getting gridded with and racing against the same people so enjoy shooting the sh-- and analysing our respective races. We have club members in pretty much every category so get there early to cheer the kiddies and novices, then hang around to support the seniors.
I'm doing less miles in the CX season than the rest of the year (was one of the 500+ miles a month club/thread) as the day before is taper and race day is short, but I struggle to see how 40 minutes or an hour at threshold, with regular anaerobic efforts, is detrimental to fitness, plus you're getting skills practice at the same time. Though I totally get the fresh-air headspace bit, that's why I do so many road miles and I haven't touched my turbo since being injured 2+ years ago.
MK bowl is Saturday-if your 130km takes you close then why not stop for a butchers and a heckle? There will be at least a coffee van if not a food van, and you can get a feel for the atmosphere. I'll be the one with the bright orange bar tape and helmet getting swamped off the start line of V40...
Do the Novice and the Senior? I reckon doing both, with a fair warm up and cool down wouldn;t be too far off the TSS for an endurance ride. And equally as effective in raising FTP.
I think you've made a good decision Kryton. It's clear from your post that what you really wanted to do is go for a nice long road ride - I don't think you should need any more justification than that.
Folk are always going to try and push their values on you and lots of folk really love CX. Personally I'd rather go for a nice road ride with no pressure or hassle other than 'don't ride too fast'. CX is fun, but way overrated IMO
Stone the heretic!!