STW thread of the year for me so far 😀
I hope you manage to get the headset sorted DannyH, and certainly the head-doctor returned; an LBS keeping parts from components supplied by the customer is very bad form IMO.
I learned 4 useful things on this thread.
1: Too many spacers under the stem puts too much load on the steerer tube (which makes sense).
2: Angling the levers down can put them in an easier position to reach when you've got your elbows out (which also makes sense - at least, when I move my elbows out the tops of my hands tend to rotate down).
3: Doing stuff yourself is always best (but I knew this anyway).
4: Some people on STW are complete bell ends. Taking the piss out of people's grass / fence / shed / valve stem - tyre logo alignment is expected, and I'm not shy when it comes to dishing it out. But all the "arrggh my eyes, this bike is a crime against humanity" shit is disappointing and in clear violation of the "try not to be a dick" rule. We're all free to ride what we like without the ****ing STW trail-centre-only weekend-warrior hipster crowd bellyaching that they don't like how someone's bike look. Nobs.
It seems odd that you would slide the saddle back a bit on the rails AND have your bars so high
Well as he's using 40mm of spacers instead of higher rise bars he's shortened the reach by approximately 15mm.
*high fives stupid amount of spacers but not giving a toss buddy*
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Blimey, some people have been busy in here..........
Update - LBS have given me back the bits they didn't use, but no top seal. I have rang Hope and they are going to sort me out with a seal in the next few days, so big thanks to them. LBS may or may not be in the black book.
My answers to the bike critics out there remain the same(!)
The most worrying thing about this thread is that mr belowski is wading in on my side - he normally just takes the piss vehemently, so I guess 'dissing' another man's ride can unite as well as divide.......
As for the 'try not to be dick rule' - well I haven't seen much evidence of that ever being obeyed on STW by some folk.
I think your bike may look a little 'special', but I respect your right to ride what the hell you like without being ridiculed for it by a load of keyboard warriors on the interwebz.
If the seal wasn't there, surely a decent LBS would have spotted this and told you about it?
2 pieces of wood and a hammer. If only you'd listened to me in the first place
2 pieces of wood and a hammer. If only you'd listened to me in the first place
I did mine last week with a C-clamp from Homebase, worked really well.
I'm fitting another one today but need to get the old headset cups out, what would you recommend for that in the absence of the correct tools?
"Recommend" isn't really the right word, but I can tell you what I used. I just tapped it out with a socket bar extension and a hammer, little taps. Someone else suggested using the inner bit of an axle stand. The principle's the same - stick something long into the head tube so it rests on the lip of the cup, tap it, move to the opposite side of of the cup, tap again. Repeat a little at a time till it's out
As above but with a round metal tube, 25mm metal conduit.
I have a length of threaded rod with a couple of big/thick washers and a couple of nuts.
Ghetto Headset removal tool.. A metal tube that's nearly the right thickness and cut down it. Flare it out slightly to the right size
If the seal wasn't there, surely a decent LBS would have spotted this and told you about it?
Yes - I agree with that - I supplied the headset to them with the instructions, so the only bit that required any other thought was pressing the cups in. Even I can read instruction manuals......
It's not the best, and I'm currently reviewing their status with me from "Only use them if absolutely necessary and/or can't be bothered to do it myself" to "Only use them if absolutely necessary". It seems that the old adage of wanting a job doing properly still applies - even if the end result used two blocks of wood and a hammer.
Cheers, will give that a go, have an old seatpost i think will go down the headtube and can be used to tap the cups out.
high fives stupid amount of spacers but not giving a toss buddy*
+ another
4: Some people on STW are complete bell ends. Taking the piss out of people's grass / fence / shed / valve stem - tyre logo alignment is expected, and I'm not shy when it comes to dishing it out. But all the "arrggh my eyes, this bike is a crime against humanity" shit is disappointing and in clear violation of the "try not to be a dick" rule. We're all free to ride what we like without the **** STW trail-centre-only weekend-warrior hipster crowd bellyaching that they don't like how someone's bike look. Nobs.
5(a) some people have no sense of humour
5(b) some people take things far too seriously
6) surely "weekend warrior" is the antithesis of "hipster"
Glad th OP got the headset sorted & glad he's all about the riding rather than the aesthetics
I'd consider chopping the steerer a bit and fitting some high rise bars.
I think this would be a bit safer and you may get an added bit of comfort from the high rise bars.
To remove some headset cups I used some leftover copper pipe and then cut down it and flared it out. The copper is really soft so it won't damage the cups. Fast, cheap and safe.
Defintley consign the lbs to the black book.
In my opinion, aesthetics aside your frames way too small but if your happy with it that's the main thing.
I think I'm right in saying that now leaves us with a grand total of zero half decent lbs in the area.
In terms of bottom cup removal how does a flayed out piece of tubing fit into the headtube in the first place?
I may potentially need to remove the lower cup only and I have read that removing it from a 456C is a total pain in the arse.
you compress the leaves to push it in ?
I pull through the headtube with the flared bits pointing out. It compresses as you pull it through and expands a bit when you reach past the narrowest point (the headset cup). Hope that makes sense.
I've got 40mm of spacers on my c456 but that is due to on one making the head tube too short. I endedvup using a conical carbon top cap on top of the headset top cap and then some spacers as a chunky carbon frame looks terrible with a lot of spacers. Steerer was already cut from my old bike bars at correct height at the top of steerer.
Yup, pull it in narrow end first. I found some 12" x 1" copper offcuts on ebay for a couple of quid. Got 3 in case I ballsed up the cuts.
I ballsed up the cuts.
It looks shonky but works 100% as it should. 4 cuts (or 2 all the way across) 2.5" deep, 4 equal (erm) sections. Well flare.
I shaped a wooden plug/hitty bit for the end with an AXE. Partly (mostly) for the fun of it.
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I've just read that other thread and double 😯
Carbon head tube and frame, vice clamped around the cup tight enough so that it won't slip whilst you pull the whole frame around on it??? I can't imagine how tight that vice will need to be clamped onto a smooth, round surface 😯
What, and I mean what, could [i]possibly[/i] go wrong?
I make that 30:15 to me in the maintenance/mechanical banter tennis match..........
File the cup flat on either side to give the vice something to grip I guess. Then hope the twisting force isn't enough to pull the head tube off the top / down tubes.
I'd just leave it on there and invest in a big stash of spare bearings
as a [s]chunky carbon[/s] frame looks terrible with a lot of spacers.
FTFY
I respect your right to ride what the hell you like without being ridiculed for it by a load of keyboard warriors on the interwebz.
This is not, and cannot be a right. How on earth would be know which #enduro sleds were weapon if we did not critique one another in intemperate terms?
😉
I'd just leave it on there and invest in a big stash of spare bearings
The issue was that I was potentially looking at changing the forks to a pair which happen to be tapered 🙁
A vice and prayer it is then. It'll probably be fine
How about drilling through both sides of the exposed part of the lower cup, and then putting some kind of metal rod (screwdriver?) through it to allow better purchase?
Or perhaps hacksawing across it to create a slot to put something like a chisel into - again to get more purchase for the twisting motion?
Mind you, carbon frame, vices and pulling?!
Erm, just remembered that all of this vice and cutting advice applies to the external headsets, mine is an integral lower cup.
Erm, just remembered that all of this vice and cutting advice applies to the external headsets, mine is an integral lower cup.
Time to revert to praying, then.
The split copper pipe might be your only option here. It might take a bit of tweaking to get it to the point where it flicks out hard enough to lodge on the lip of the cup if there is not a lot of room. But you might be into scratching down the inside of a carbon head tube territory here, so I think you might be behind the eight ball here if you want to get it out 🙁
Careful now, I think there's an aluminium insert bonded to the inside of the head tube, and the headset cup is pressed into this insert. Don't go bashing the wrong bit out
I made one of these to get the lower cup on my 456c out. By having the larger head on it meant I could get it between the aluminum insert and the top of the cup to tap it out gently..
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The proper tool is less than £14
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IceToolz-Headset-Cup-Remover-1-1-1-81-Inch-Silver-bike-cycle-bicycle-E221-/141355310022?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_BikeLocks_SR&hash=item20e96edbc6 ]Linky[/url]
Or use a piece of large copper plumbing pipe,you don't even need to flare it for it too work,just insert and tap it around the edge of the inner edge of the headset cup.
As its quite soft its better than using a long screwdriver or similar as it shouldnt damage the cup.
Its what I used to use prior to getting the proper tool.
Regards your LBS convenient how they forgot to give you the bits back first time around, wouldnt surprise me if the missing seal is sat on someone elses headset now.
Bad practice IMO.
I bet it was Pedalpower in Loughborough...
It looks like the seal was/is missing and they've fitted every shim that comes with the headset.
I bet it was Pedalpower in Loughborough...
I'm not saying.
Its odd that people are reluctant to let other people know where they had shit service
Top tip - if you fit one 5, one 10 and one 20mm spacer then you can have your stem at any height (5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 or 35mm) and it doesn't look quite so weird!
but it does. you get funny looks from folk as you ride towards them with your hands higher than your eyebrows!
Its odd that people are reluctant to let other people know where they had shit service
Not really. It has not been clear cut in this case, although the work has been a tad shoddy, rather than 'shit'.
They are a decent bunch, they try (too, sometimes) hard to please, and bad mouthing stays around a long time on the internet. Doing a hatchet job over one thing is not proportionate. As I said above, the effect will be that I won't use them for 50/50 stuff in the future, I will most likely have a go myself.
Small bike shops (even ones that are sometimes a bit sub-optimal) are better than the likes of Halfords and Evans in many scenarios. No squeezing a job in as a favour there, no, they have to be booked onto (wince), The System.
They certainly don't need the likes of me spouting off to all and sundry, even if I am a tad pissed off in this individual case. If I really wanted to register my displeasure I would tell them face to face, or via a personal email.
So not necessarily odd, just not being an amateur Watchdog presenter.........
but it does. you get funny looks from folk as you ride towards them with your hands higher than your eyebrows!
You taking the piss out of my chopper?
Well said Dannyh
( I am not connected with the shop in involved 🙂 )
how can you tell the logos are not lined up ? modern hope headsets have 3 at 90 degrees to each other - so id say that cups in the right place to have one central - one at 90 and one at 270
So, where were you on the day they did geometry at your school?
So, where were you on the day they did geometry at your school?
Lost, if trying to use a compass to get there?
Danny, scandal - I have the correct tools at home if you ever want it done properly in the future....
And I have mild OCD about stuff like that so logos are always in line! 🙂
Spacers are fo' wasters:
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3633/3928852466_b140bb02fe_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3633/3928852466_b140bb02fe_z.jp g"/> ?zz=1[/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/6ZboXC ]Image00001[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/23823661@N05/ ]scaredypants[/url], on Flickr
No, just joking with Stevo! My hardtail still has an uncut steerer nearly the height of yours. I'm just a worrier. Scared it won't sell if it's cut any shorter!
scandal42 - MemberI may potentially need to remove the lower cup only and I have read that removing it from a 456C is a total pain in the arse.
FWIW I took a couple out of mine, it was a wee bit harder than usual but not really very troublesome. That was a smoothie and a Works Components, your hopey mileage may vary.
I used the Universal Smashing Tool- a rear axle from a '00 Suzuki SV650S. Don't use one from an N model, not carbon compatible.
Is that slide resting on the bikes bars or a were the kids trying to launch themselves into the trampoline?
I'll just sit and weep gently about the bike rather than comment.