http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1738805/
Numerous dents allround/both sides of the downtube? Check
Shortened the seat tube himself? Check.
£900? 😯
"cosmetic" dents. Always an interesting concept. 😕
I'd not be worried about the seat tube though.
Considering they're about 3 grand new I suppose not.. whether I'd pay almost a grand for a dented bike with a bodged seat tube is another story!
says he's in West Yorks, close enough for you to head over and have a look.
A year ago Bromley bikes was knocking them out at just over a grand weren't they (from memory): http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/psa-bromley-bikes-selling-liteville-301s-cheap-on-ebay
Wonder what the rest of it's like if it's that battered & modded TBH 😯
Maybe it's one of the bikes being used for their "Grass Roots" race team.
I enquired before the pics were up. Seems like a nice enough chap, however those dents are anything but cosmitic.
£900 is very overpriced, I doubt very much he'll sell at anywhere near that.
My MK10 has dents like that all over the downtube - it's been like that for years no issues. And the frames have a 10 year transferrable warranty that includes race use.
Worst case it snaps and you get a new one!
They are bloomin' awesome bikes.
Mk11 for £950 no dents and in a better colour! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liteville-301-frame-/281645967378?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4193686812
My MK10 has dents like that all over the downtube - it's been like that for years no issues. And the frames have a 10 year transferrable warranty that includes race use.
Worst case it snaps and you get a new one!
Chopping down the seat tube and not being the original owner may void the warranty
[i]a better colour![/i]
just adds weight, imo 😉
for £950 including a dropper post is a good price.
Starting to realise why they're so light.
Chopping down the seat tube and not being the original owner may void the warranty
The "transferable" bit takes care of your second point, but yes I suspect chopping the seatpost down may have invalidated it. Bit harsh if it failed from a dent on the downtube though.
From the Liteville site: "The Warranty is valid for all Liteville owners, not only for the first owner, and permits DH and race usage"
However, point taken on the seattube "reducing".
Mind you, on MK10 frames, they actually produced a user guide to drill a hole for a stealth dropper! Not many manufacturers would do that!
[url= http://syntace.my1.cc/liteville/pdf/RockShox_Reverb_Stealth_an_Liteville.pdf ]Drill your own![/url]
on the Mk10's they said if you drilled them for a dropper post (which they gave instructions for on their website) it voided the warranty on the seat tube but the rest of the frame was still covered. I'd hope they'd take the same approach for a trimmed seat tube.
Still not sure they'd cover a downtube that failed due to failure/damage resulting from hitting a rock though?
wwaswas - Member
a better colour!
just [s]adds weight[/s]protection from dents 😯
Was going to say that looks OK, not 900 OK, but fine to ride. Don't like the look of that dent closest to the bb, though, looks a bit creased.
why are they denting so easily?
Was going to say that looks OK, not 900 OK, but fine to ride. Don't like the look of that dent closest to the bb, though, looks a bit creased.
I happily rode a three year old Spesh Enduro frame with a big dent in the side of the downtube. Sold it for £160 on here with the (hopeful) proviso that it wasn't to be filled in, powdercoated and sold on to an unsuspecting buyer for lots more. Who knows though?
That dent IS a crease isn't it? 😯
[i]why are they denting so easily? [/i]
what makes you think they dent easily?
There are several examples of a very rare frame with multiple dents?
A very rare [i]very light[/i] frame with multiple dents...
Mine hasn't got any dents, neither has the black one on ebay.
Maybe they attract the sort of people who ride in a way or in places where falling off results in heavy impacts on the bike frame?
It's not worth starting an stw bickerfest over but extrapolating one damaged/bodged frame on the classifieds plus one other poster on here with dented down tubes into "they must dent easily" seems to be a bit ott?
Maybe they attract the sort of people who ride in a way or in places where falling off results in heavy impacts on the bike frame?
+1
Most aluminium frames end up looking like that after a while, well maybe not that big crease, but peppered with dents anyway. And the kind of person looking at those frames is probably someone who rides a lot.
It's not worth starting an stw bickerfest over but extrapolating one damaged/bodged frame on the classifieds plus one other poster on here with dented down tubes into "they must dent easily" seems to be a bit ott?
That's a bit of a leap of faith, he asked "why are they denting so easily?", based on a sample of two, 100% of which were dented. You've now come along and changed that to 50%, but that's still more common than (say) a Spesh Enduro. Seemed a reasonable question.
Fairly sure I "know" the guy selling it he used to post on here. I bought something from him and collected it in Holmfirth - seemed like a decent bloke FWIW
The rock strikes needed to do 'THAT' IMO are either coming off a crazy fast front motorcrosser wheel or its been dropped or even stored on its downtube badly for transit?
I've seen dents on many frames- none as many (or on the sides as well) as that one in my link. Unless it was a hire bike in the Alps or Scotland?!
Similar dents in my frame have all been large rock strikes coming off the front wheel during Alpine stuff - TransProvence trails etc.
The rock strikes needed to do 'THAT' IMO are either coming off a crazy fast front motorcrosser wheel or its been dropped or even stored on its downtube badly for transit?
It doesn't take much, just do a search on google images for downtube dents, rocks tend to flick up and hit just above the BB, doesn't need to be in the Alps, a quick run down Cavedale will do it!
The rock strikes needed to do 'THAT' IMO are either coming off a crazy fast front motorcrosser wheel or its been dropped or even stored on its downtube badly for transit?I've seen dents on many frames- none as many (or on the sides as well) as that one in my link. Unless it was a hire bike in the Alps or Scotland?
I think in this case you IMO is a bit off the mark. A week in Morzine did a pretty thorough job on a Kona Dawg for me. I'm sure if I'd been there much longer it would have resembled that Liteville
Ok so we agree on one thing, Dents can happen out on the trails.
I've probably got a couple of small ones under the BB of my 4yr old Santa Cruz thats not seen a trail centre in the year that I've owned it.
However would you put almost a grand into a frame that obviously has been used (or something) regardless of how it came about the damage?
The tubing diameters on all the Litevilles are huge - but the weights are very low, so the wall thickness has to be very low. If you read through their site you'll see they're obsessed with the tiniest engineering details so I'd doubt there are any durability issues - especially as they dare to offer a 10 year transferable warranty!
Saying that, I wouldn't pay that much for a dented frame, it just bothers me...
Saying that, I wouldn't pay that much for a dented frame, it just bothers me...
Agree on all your points and on the last one.
When SC mega-bucks frames get to a couple of years old with signs of use- how much would they really be worth secondhand?
I only really ever buy secondhand (frames).
Warrenty isn't the same crash replacement, if it failed at one of those dent's that's not a warrenty job. Warrentys covers materials and workmanship, so if it cracked at a weld, or the rocker.
I'm with Hora*, I'd not pay that much for a frame in dubious condition when there are cheaper brands selling new frames for that (codein etc) or more durable s/h fames, example 5's often have dented downtubes, but I've never seen one fail as a result. That's a spare rear triangle and shock for someone.
*although I silently judge him for not manageing to get more dents in a year of riding in the Peaks, i can't manage a day there without adding at least one significant battle scar (the culprits usualy being rocks on cavedale/pindale geting pinged onto the downtube)!
[i] That's a spare rear triangle and shock for someone[/i]
I was tempted to make an offer for the 160mm travel plates 🙂
thisisnotaspoon- answers on a postcard.... I ride all the cheeky stuff weekly in the Peak District and Calderdale and although far from being a riding stallion I still bimble along nicely. [s]You'd think there would be some sort of damage to my frame?!![/s]
Not wanting to jinx the b/hols riding 8)
I ride my 301 in Lake Garda pretty much every day for 6 months, possibly the rockiest place I've ever ridden next to Sedona. I use a carbon downtube protector that clips on round the BB shell made by MiRo. I haven't had any issues apart from one dent that I picked up when I forgot to put the guard back on after washing the bike (rare occassion in Garda!) I've done 2 seasons on LV bikes now and in 6 months of riding the only things I have to do on the bike are change the brake pads, which is great as downtime for servicing/repairs is absolutely minimal. The amount of time I spent fettling other bikes in previous years was depressing.
The downtube as well as being butted is also thicker underneath than at the sides. I really don't think there is any problem with this frame other than cosmetic.
I've sent a message to the tech guys at LV though to ask their opinion and also about the warranty/seatpost issue.
If anyone ever needs info/bits/spares/bikes for these let me know, I have plenty, including complete ex demo bikes, new frames, 160mm rocker plates, all spare parts etc etc.
The downtube as well as being butted is also thicker underneath than at the sides. I really don't think there is any problem with this frame other than cosmetic
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I'd accept small shallow dents, but that's almost and inch long!
[img] 
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And that one at the BB looks like it's creased rather than dented.
I'd love a liteville, but that looks like a very very well used example for £950.
5's often have dented downtubes, but I've never seen one fail as a result.
Have you ever seen a Liteville fail as a result of such a dent?
The "dent" above the BB on the seat tube is put there by Liteville. It's to allow the E type mech to work and gives it space to move across. Without the "dent" the front mech would not work. It's in every 301 frame. I hadn't realised the discussion was focused on that, apologies.
I don't think he means that - he's referring to the sharper dent at the bottom of the downtube.
michael cycle - I think it's the one near the bottom of the down tube in the 2nd picture (it's just above the end of the ISCG mount tab you can see) that people are concerned about.
The clearest pic is in the ad, taken from underneath clearly showing the crease.
The clearest pic is in the ad, taken from underneath clearly showing the crease.
Not that one, the lower one, in line withthe ISCG in the 2nd pic.
Have you ever seen a Liteville fail as a result of such a dent?
That wasn't quite my point, I'd happily buy a frame with a few dings and dents in it, say, upto the size of that top one in the 2nd pic as long as it was priced accordingly, I'd neither spend the best part of a grand on a 2nd hand frame, nor one that seems to have dents sharp enough to have creases in them!
Official stance is - The warranty on the frame is void because of the modification to the seat tube. However, unoffically, LV always look after their customers, be they 1st or 2nd or 3rd generation (i.e. you bought the frame second hand. The warranty is transferable without any paperwork or receipts. That adds massively to the resale value and supports the used market. So, in this case, if the frame had an issue that would normally be deemed to be under warranty, in this case I would be very confident they are going to help you out with a "crash replacement" approach - that's assuming there is an issue in the first place, which I doubt there will be.
Hope that helps.
p.s. I have a brand new black MK11 size S and size M frame available and a complete 301 size M ex demo bike with Chris King, Syntace etc. PM me for details if required.
having followed this thread and details of the warranty etc. Liteville have jumped to the top of manufacturers I'd buy a frame from.
Is the crash replacement going to be significantly cheaper that £650?
If not, it's nowhere near worth doing, as a new one is£1600 odd at todays rates.
A new 301 frame in UK officially retails at £2095. The currency exchange rates involved move daily so the UK prices are set once a year by the UK distributor, not by Liteville. It could move for or against customer/dealer after it is set over the 12 months. Obviously the Euro/£ has shifted considerably in the last 6 months. I am awaiting clarification on this issue and also about the pricing for the crash replacement. I know what it is roughly, I just want to have my facts correct.
Aren't all Litevilles overpriced....
I got a swift reply - please use this as a guide rather than concrete policy. They really do have great approach to this and take the view point of wanting to fully understand why and how something may have gone wrong and if there is a possibility to improve things it gets quickly designed into the next design/production run. They don't do "year" bikes, pumping out a bike every 12 months for the sake of it, with a new colour scheme, they just change things when it's needed and required. That could be after 9 months or 24 months etc.
From Liteville -
"The Crash replacement Price is depending on the Age of an Frame but we
try to help our customers on Basis of our Warranty Terms:
The exchange of a Liteville frame within the warranty period occurs
free of charge within the first 5 years warranty, in the 5 -10th year
a 50% discount on the respective current retail price is offered."
UK pricing is set by OneWay Distribution in Holland. I'll be speaking to them as I think they need to adjust it to reflect the big shift in Euro/Sterling. The other factor of course is that old chestnut of supporting your local dealer/bike shop/home market. 🙂
A new 301 frame in UK officially retails at £2095.
well there's one potential customer lost. However, if they do go for £1600, I'd be surprised if you could keep them on the shelves.
Wrecker, bear in mind they include a top quality headset, seatclamp and 12mm through axle; also that you a not getting the equivalent of say an aluminium Santacruz, you are getting the equivalent of a carbon one in terms of weight.
Its still a 2 grand aluminum frame. SC are already known as overpriced due to import duties/tax distributor costs.
Just for ballance of all this talk of the RRP being up there with carbon Santa Cruz, they're £1599 in Mountain Trax (and they have a demo bike). And as other said that includes a fair few ££ of extras too. Considering the thought that seems to have gone into the design I think thats a good price.
[i]Its still a 2 grand aluminum frame.[/i]
other than kudos points I'm not sure that there's a reason why material should determine frame price?
imo, it's more about what goes into building a frame in terms of design and actual effort.
on-one can knock out carbon hardtail frames for £300 when it suits them but most co's charge at least 4 times that.
There's no inherent 'carbonness' or 'aluminiumness' that sets a price for a frame, it's about what the market will bear and the work that goes in.
No idea what the shock costs on it's own but it's got all the kashima bells and whistles and a custom tune on it, for example.
Even the seat clamp is an engineering delight.
yep waswas is right, the actual cost of the material that the frame is made of is probably a very small proportion of the overall cost of the frame, you're paying for :-
-Design time
-manufacturing cost
-shipping
-various parties markups in the process
- warranty/support - and this is where it sounds like a lot of the cost is going
- what the accountants think the market will stand (also image/brand will be baked in here)
To be fair the price of a new one doesnt sound too bad really, its at the top end compared to other frames, but then their product sounds at the top end in terms of design,support, warranty etc.
Orange alpine is what ~£1600? Titus elguapo is £700? The liteville is £2k. 3 examples of bikes that are in the same segment, 3 very different prices, buy the one that fits your budget.
The second hand one sounds over priced to me , especially with the cut down seat tube and the dents. if I were buying I'd rather spend the extra grand on a brand new one and know its brand new.
I'm not doubting that its well made. I just don't feel comfortable paying over 1k for a bike frame that you are going to get gritted up, scratched, scoured, damaged and abused.
A road bike frame- possibly yes by comparison.
Ontop of this you spend god-knows how much on a frame when the industry 'standard' might bloody change again in a couple of years.
So anything 'new' over 1k is out for me.
So if the issue is 'anything over 1k' why this comment about the frame material v price?
[i]Its still a 2 grand aluminum frame[/i]
I'm not doubting that its well made. I just don't feel comfortable paying over 1k for a bike frame that you are going to get gritted up, scratched, scoured, damaged and abused.
That, and you'll change your mind after 23 seconds and take a huge hit on the resale value.
Plenty of frames are well over that these days! An S-Works Enduro is £3,000.
Ontop of this you spend god-knows how much on a frame when the industry 'standard' might bloody change again in a couple of years.
But that's true of any frame, i've just bought a steel 26" frame with 135mm qr dropouts. Do i care it's not 650b, boost 148 and carbon.... nope not one bit
If i was dropping over £1k on a frame i'd be more bothered about the engineering and design over the material. That liteville looks really well thought out, has a nice looking geo and is of the current standards
Stop procrastinating, hitch up your sports bra and buy it
That, and you'll change your mind after 23 seconds and take a huge hit on the resale value.
Every single new frame I've bought I've kept for c2yrs.
Second hand ones can stay a couple of months or a year.
When its used you know you can be whimsical.
Spawn' the shortlist is the Commencal V4 frame, Transition Bandit.
Bandit does look the better option of the two, but get a test ride in
The problem is where/how.
How much is the commencal V4 frame?
Did you read the recent review in MBR where it was compared to an orbea rallon? they thought it was good'ish, but they didnt like the wide chainstays, reckoned they kept catching their heels on it. I'd need a test ride just to make sure that issue didnt affect me.
I'd go for the Rallon frame only instead ~£1300 with the fox shock, a bit more than your notional £1k limit, but probably worth it IMO.
How much is the commencal V4 frame?
£735+ c£150 for a shock..
To throw another one into the mix, what about a Giant Trance frame?
Everyone (apart from Renton) I've encountered with one raves about it
I must admit that I've always had an irrational dislike of Giant bikes but just recently they've been getting great reviews and I'd agree that its pretty hard to argue against them value for money wise. At least on complete bikes anyway.
Frame only for just over your limit hora..
having followed this thread and details of the warranty etc. Liteville have jumped to the top of manufacturers I'd buy a frame from.
Some sense in a sea of pish talk.
I must admit that I've always had an irrational dislike of Giant bikes
I'm the same, I demo'd a few of the 2nd generation maestro frames (anthem-x, reign-x)and they were great, but on some level I just don't want a Giant. I know most big brands are now owned by venture capitalists or are otherwise just parts of a big business, but Giant just seem a bit to impersonal. There's no Mike Sinyard, Rob Roskopp, Keith Bontranger/Garry Fisher character behind the scenes.
It's like a Toyota GT86 or Nisan 370Z, probably brilliant cars, but I'd rather have a XK or soemthing a bit more personable.
^Out of the new frames that I've owned a Heckler (2yrs), a 5spot* (4months), 2xBlur4x (2.5yrs total) only once have I had to claim once* on a warranty. Out of the countless used bike frames I've owned I've never ever had a crack or issue so a massively long warranty doesn't really interest me in part of the buying process. That includes shocks too.
I also like the look of the Kona Process- however I don't think you can get them as a frame only? 🙁
The Trance - I've heard good things but it just doesn't look 'special'(?) as a proposition etc.
Wasn't there a picture of you pushing your bike down some lame, middle England trail?. That'll be why you've never broke anything. 😆
stop Fing about get a Bird Aeris £850 for the Frame!!!
http://shop.birdmtb.com/framesets/aeris-pre-order-deposit.html
Wasn't there a picture of you pushing your bike down some lame, middle England trail?. That'll be why you've never broke anything.
Yep! Taken after my stay in Guildford hospital.
It looks nice in the bigfoot blue option. Would need a testride though. I bought a Chumba unseen years ago that looked nice but I didn't like at all.
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you don't look how I imagined you would in that selfie.
FoD or swinley for test fleet!!
what about this hora..
it is from the german mtb forum...
used litevilles are always cheaper there..
a mate sent me the link
no dents, no seattube "improvement"..should be about 1100.-..
http://bikemarkt.mtb-news.de/article/567055-liteville-301-mk10-l-raw-160mm-mit-push-tft-tuning