[Closed] Is there anything that annoys you about the bike industry?

they seem to insist on charging for their products is what most annoys me.

Not actually having a standard standard so everything swaps between bikes

why not use the same groupset throughout the whole bike.....

Their failure to give me stuff for nowt has always rankled TBH

In my two stints within it, which I thoroughly enjoyed, they never paid me enough to fund my lavish lifestyle.

And, just to annoy Binbins, they gave me a LOT of free stuff!

The constant telling us we need things, which differs year on year, and the magazines delivering the message. I can only deduce that most mags are completely in the pocket of the brands (not so much ST and dirt but certainly the future mags and MBR). Recently we've been told that 140mm bikes are the most versatile, then 120mm was the sweet spot and now we all need bigger wheels apparently. Transparent market stimulation.

The pay is rubbish, the parts are over priced, there is a clique to belong to, nothing fits together (shimano, sram etc) Cloathing is sub standard with a few exception, and servicing is a right Rip of everyone should learn to do it them selfs.

They smell funny.

oi!

Not actually having a standard standard so everything swaps between bikes

Chainguide pricing. Pricing of US stuff over here. People who get bent out of shape about other people's preferences.

Getting suspension oil on my trousers and not being able to wash it out. (solutions welcomed)

"The constant telling us we need things"

+1

Supply creating it's own demand.

You dont have to buy it people, step away.

overpriced stuff, a lot of which is under-engineered or just stuck in the past.

Don't shimano realise that if they stopped messing around with all the different group sets and just made XTR and Saint at the Deore pricepoint they would sell loads more? 😉

Getting suspension oil on my trousers and not being able to wash it out. (solutions welcomed)

Teflon action slacks? 😯

or send them to us 😉

Price fixing

The price of chainrings .

Oh,ok ,I'll just buy a new chainset 🙄

Marketing, mags and reviews.

There is no ideal product, just the best balance of compromises for a particular application of what technology is available.

There is no perfect "do it all bike", since requirements, personal taste and acceptable compromises vary greatly from person to person.

Bike and setup is over analysed to within an inch of its life, but technique and mindset, of which actually make a difference is ignored.

Lack of suspension/bike setup support in your average bike shop.

LoCo - Member

Teflon action slacks?

or send them to us

Damange is done. I'm sat in the office, with three big greasy spots on the left leg.

Standards that don't work.

I couldn't give a monkeys if the headset on my new bike is 1.2746394" and only once company makes it (as long as it's good) or that a new frame is 28.2" wheels. As long as it works I don't mind.

A bit like writing off a car then complaining the engine still had miles left in it and moaning to the Skoda dealer that they won't knock money off the price and fit you'r old Ford engine for free and knock some money off, after all youre buying the rest of the car from them!

Stuff like BB30 though put's me off new bikes though due to stories of it creakeing and needing re-assembling every 150miles or so to keep it quiet. What was so wrong with threaded cups? Would it have made much difference to make BB30 internal bearings in threaded cups?

Magazines;
1) Product reviews, the 'first look' stuff has some relavence, otherwise that's what the internet is for.
2) Press junkets - I don't give a flying f*** how good truvativ's sushi was or that Shimano flew you to outer mongolia to launch their new range of downhill-gnarr core-lite brakes. Unless the aformetioned freebies are incuded with the product I don't care.
3) 'Travel' articles where the writer clearly just got a free holliday off a guiding company. That's not being a traveler and having an adventure on a bike, that's being a tourist.

Santa Cruz/Jungle UK price gouging
The lack of an affordable stainless steel/Ti SqT BB axle & Cups that take replaceable sealed bearings
Tyre prices and brake pad prices when compared to motor parts.
Interference fitted upper stanchions and steerer tubes - come on! modular upper assemblies!!!
Front disk brake mounts on the rear of the fork leg not the front
EBB diameter BB shells as standard, allowing oversized non-EBB BBs for those that want larger BBs as well as standard EBBs for those that want those
and Forum Mods, natch.

It has to be the fact the more popular it becomes the more they hike up the prices and to be honest a lot of the products are not up to their intended purpose I bought a 2010 spesh enduro cost 2 grand and after ten months the frame had play in it, wheels needed rebuilding, all gearing and bottom bracket needed replacing, all frame bearings need replacing, headset shafted yeah I know these are replaceable items but come on that's just poor! Also 120 quid for a chain guide is a joke! How come things like tyres cost the same as their motocross equivalent? Piss' me right of but I love riding so what can you do?

This is really really annoying. And getting worse.

142mm hubs anyone? yeah non standard standards are a PITA

Also if it would be nice if the people who come up with phrases like "handles square edge hits with aplomb" could quietly eviscerate themselves (Bikeradar I'm looking at you)

Getting suspension oil on my trousers and not being able to wash it out(solutions welcomed)

Hounarablegeorge

Getting suspension oil on my trousers and not being able to wash it out. (solutions welcomed)
Solution = take them to your mums she'll know what to do,
I get some detergant dilute with a litlebit of water and rub in leave for a wile and then wash.

or LoCo is offering as below.

LoCo
Teflon action slacks?

or send them to us.

So he's willing to do your washing to.

Providing solutions to problems that don't exist at the behest of the marketing department. Everything seems to be getting meatier, chunkier and more heavy duty, just more GGGNAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

Is the average rider getting more GGGNAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!! at the same rate? What do you think?

looking at the majority of mountain bikes in the shops now, you'd automatically assume they were catering exclusively to a level of rider around Steve Peat's ability. Fine if this was being driven by demands from riders. But its not. You know full well its coming from the marketing department, trying to engineer a built-in-obsolescence similar to consumer electronics

It has to be the fact the more popular it becomes the more they hike up the prices and to be honest a lot of the products are not up to their intended purpose I bought a 2010 spesh enduro cost 2 grand and after ten months the frame had play in it, wheels needed rebuilding, all gearing and bottom bracket needed replacing, all frame bearings need replacing, headset shafted yeah I know these are replaceable items but come on that's just poor!

Could be worse, I had a Pitch Pro, it needed everything (and I mean everything) replacing. Although so far the frame's been fine.

Also 120 quid for a chain guide is a joke! How come things like tyres cost the same as their motocross equivalent? Piss' me right of but I love riding so what can you do?

Small production run parts cost more.

And is there actualy any difference between a MX and a MTB tyre other than the volume of materials? The cost of rubber isn't very high so I'm guessing that has negligable impact on the overall cost.

looking at the majority of mountain bikes in the shops now, you'd automatically assume they were catering exclusively to a level of rider around Steve Peat's ability. Fine if this was being driven by demands from riders. But its not. You know full well its coming from the marketing department, trying to engineer a built-in-obsolescence

Yes, but Mr Peat could probably out-ride most mortals on an XC bike. Most mortals need a 6" bike to get round a (deacent) black run. Should mortals be banned from riding stuff at all untill they can do it on a fully rigid singlespeed before being allowed to progress to more gnarr bikes?

The obsession with wish-fulfillment road bikes:
Put rack and guard mounts on everything, please.
Just because I'd like to ride in the rain and carry a few things doesn't mean I always want a tourer.
Ignore the Sunday Sportive fantasists, they'll get used to it.

Matt black:
Yes, it's cheaper than chrome or polishing.
But it looks cheap & bloody awful.

Posh rear mechs coupled with crap headsets and bottom brackets.
You're fooling no-one, sunshine.
It's cheap and a bit sad.

Three frame sizes - so they almost fit everyone.
Make all bikes in one inch increments so we can buy one that fits.

How about a decent free lock with every new bike?
Just to show you're not a bunch of cynical, money grabbing shysters.

Release things globally:
Trek 520 - nice, cheap, steel, basic bicycle.
Takes a rack & guards. Big tyres. Can I buy one here? No I effing can't. Thanks.

Brown:
Look, it's the colour of most people's excrement.
Don't use it as bike colour.

3 wheel sizes. I've moaned about it enough on here

richmtb - Member
This is really really annoying. And getting worse.
142mm hubs anyone? yeah non standard standards are a PITA

In some case, yeah.

I quite like 142 rear - get rid of QR, have a bolt through, but still slots into the frame and locates - it does make sense. And most hubs will accomodate it.

Tapered headtubes - being able to use an internal or external headset, and change bar height accordingly - makes sense. Bit of a pain that 1 1/8 forks are getting hard to come by though.

15mm axles annoyed me - there was a perfectly good standard there already. And we're told bigger,thinner wall tubes are lighter and stiffer for everything else - why not for axles?

If a chain guide was not made for mtb purposes it would cost buttons it's a a plate with a roller on and a plastic disc

We need another axle standard, tapered, thicker side on the caliper side 😉

#off to patent that now# 😐

well suppose seeing through it all helps

all these industry videos piss me right off. 🙂

1)Non damped forks on entry level and kids bikes. Just stick rigids on them.

2) The obsession with speccing fancy rear mechs then downgrading, the brakes or cranks.

3) Fit the full groupset, Deore will do.

4)Standardise on number of speeds,headsets,stems,bars and bottom brackets so that uograding is easier.

5) Lose the lairy graphics and be more imaginitive with colour schemes.

6) Charge reasonable prices for consumables so that it isnt cheaper to buy chainrings rather than a chainset and things like pad shouldnt really cost more than a tenner.

Santa Cruz/Jungle UK price gouging

Not actually having a standard standard so everything swaps between bikes

Damn straight.
Pricing of brake fluid etc. same stuff as halfords but a fraction of the quantity.

Orange bikes parts upgrades. The biggest rip off going. Charge you full RRP for the upgraded part and pocket the standard item! The full builds aren't much better value!

)Standardise on .....stems,bars .... so that uograding is easier.

WTF?

Bike and setup is over analysed to within an inch of its life, but technique and mindset, of which actually make a difference is ignored.

+1
It's obviously more profitable for the industry to make you think that if you don't manage to go through a technical climb, to corner efficiently or to take a jump properly, it's due to your (already) outdated bike parts.

Most mortals need a 6" bike to get round a (deacent) black run.

😯

Market misconception that more gnar bikes are actually helping you out.

Perfect example would be bunny hops.

Bike and setup is over analysed to within an inch of its life, but technique and mindset, of which actually make a difference is ignored.

Carbon.

it does make sense. And most hubs will accomodate it.

Brilliant

Also a good shout on the cost of pads and discs/general consumables - ie jockey wheels at abouT 50% mech price

i can get replacements for the car cheaper than for the bike in terms of pads and discs

Orange bikes parts upgrades. The biggest rip off going. Charge you full RRP for the upgraded part and pocket the standard item!

Example? I've been looking at a Five and was worried this might be going on, but couldn't find any evidence. I suspect their standard headsets and bottom brackets cost pence.

They aren't ripping anyone off. You are not being forced to buy their bikes. It is a choice.

Consumers grumbling about it on the internets 😆

Hope bb upgrade =£60. Available for £59. Reverb upgrade £230???? WTF???
Maybe not a rip off, certainly attempted rip off.
You can buy a five frame and build it up to the same spec or better for less money than a complete build.

I really hate the way the industry markets things that "will make you a better rider", but which actually make you think you are a better rider. Mostly by adding overly complex, expensive solutions to a brilliantly simple machine.

No attractive, good value carbon disc-braked roadie yet.

It's obviously more profitable for the industry to make you think that if you don't manage to go through a technical climb, to corner efficiently or to take a jump properly, it's due to your (already) outdated bike parts.

yep

they gotta keep it ticking over to keep themselves in work and driving their Mercedes Vito's about eh 😉

keep changing it so we have to buy new parts to fit.

Reviews

"oh your not buying the back cover? ok you get the [i]hunk of junk[/i] award in the next test"

The Whyte 46 and similar 'it's the new messiah' kit/bikes/concepts that only really show their true colours a year or so after they launch. And stuff designed to work in Californian sunshine that falls apart as soon as it meets UK trails. And Crank Brothers - please, why?

What annoys me about the bike industry? Not much, there's choice for all and loads of good people to work with. There's little underhand dealing or snidey cr'p going on and it seems to be pretty meritocratic. There's loads of small businesses and creative, clever people doing well for themselves. Even the bigh players (ime and despite the tin-hatters' beliefs) are full of keen product-orientated people at all levels who are passionate and geniune about what they do.

Yeah some standards are a bit annoying but it's the flipside of progress, the endless 'add-a-cog' is tiring, HT2 BBs are getting on my wick at the mo and I wish tubeless tyre tolerances were more consistent, but all in all it's not much to bother about. I can chose to ignore it or I can find solutions.

I really hate the way the industry markets things that "will make you a better rider", but which actually make you think you are a better rider. Mostly by adding overly complex, expensive solutions to a brilliantly simple machine.

If there wasn't such demand for or excitement over these complex parts there would be more of us on rigid ss bikes and I wouldn't get laughed at on group rides for my luddite bike / 'brilliantly simple machine' ) Some love the tech, plenty make good use of it. Sometimes people go though a tech / bling phase and come back to the simpler bikes, it's all good perspective / experience.

Marketing always comes up but is no different in the bike industry as any other. If anything, a smaller % of company spend comapred to many industries. Smart phones, cars, gadgets, all on the great consumer march forward and promisiung to make your life better. Marketeers are no worse than consumers who suck it up, encouraging them. Shout at the modern world all you like, the only thing worth doing that is listened to is voting with your hard-earned.

On reviews - look up Steve Worlands piece in Privateer this month.

Grumpy bike shop owners/workers.

I'm not saying all, but of the shops I frequent (about 10) 2 give unabridged, out of their way SERVICE.

T'is all we need.

It would have to be the general poor quality of cycle clothing when compared to walking / climbing products.

American parts and frames cost about the same number of pounds as dollars. The product you want to buy has to go through the mits of an import/distributor AND an LBS, each of which (cough) "add value".

The most expensive piece of metal known to man - 2 plain steel countersunk jockeywheel screws for a SRAM mech - thirty odd pounds the pair (plus postage). No, I didn't buy them.

Orange bikes parts upgrades. The biggest rip off going. Charge you full RRP for the upgraded part and pocket the standard item!

Example? I've been looking at a Five and was worried this might be going on, but couldn't find any evidence. I suspect their standard headsets and bottom brackets cost pence

look at the price of the standard, and the pro/Hope upgraded bike. Unless things have changed the difference in price is the RRP of the upgraded (usually Hope) price, not the difference in price between that and the original item. Basically sanctioned theft, as youre paying for the original part and not getting it.

Having just played on the Orange site this may be changing: it costs £200 to upgrade from a Fox shock to a CCDB on an Alpine 160 frame. When I bought my mine a couple of years ago they charged £400 to upgrade from a £300 shock to a £450 shock 😯 (and no I wasnt stupid enough to pay that).

American parts and frames cost about the same number of pounds as dollars

even more offensive when this works in reverse. I moved to the US to work for a couple of years in the late 90's. The Triumph Daytona cost £9000 in the UK at the time. I walked into a dealer out there to find Triumph could crate bikes up, ship them 3000 miles, pay import taxes, and sell them for $9000 and still presumably make money 🙄

If there wasn't such demand for or excitement over these complex parts there would be more of us on rigid ss bikes and I wouldn't get laughed at on group rides for my luddite bike / 'brilliantly simple machine' ) Some love the tech, plenty make good use of it. Sometimes people go though a tech / bling phase and come back to the simpler bikes, it's all good perspective / experience.

Nope, sorry the industry creates needs and supplies ever more expensive and complex solutions through the industry media. It's how it works in this and most other industries. I merely expressed that I hate the way that it has, in my opinion, spoiled what is a simple and efficient machine.

Grumpy bike shop owners/workers.I'm not saying all, but of the shops I frequent (about 10) 2 give unabridged, out of their way SERVICE.

This.
My LBS has been excellent BTW.

Hope bb upgrade =£60. Available for £59. Reverb upgrade £230???? WTF???
Maybe not a rip off, certainly attempted rip off.
You can buy a five frame and build it up to the same spec or better for less money than a complete build.

I know Orange full builds don't always scream value for money, but I hardly call this a rip off. What's the RRP of a stock seat post on a Five? What's the full RRP of a Reverb. I guarantee the difference is at least £230 if not more. Same with the Bottom bracket. Full RRP of a Hope BB is £75. We're spoilt in that there are so many online stores that will sell us stuff at a big reduction from retail price that we think anyone charging near-retail prices is ripping us off.

Beer,

i have had more free drinks in a single day in the advertising world than a year in the bike world.

Seriously too many BB and headset "standards", and now axles have joined in too.

The relative lack of bike manufacturers who offer a frame only option (at a sensible) price - I've ridden a couple of demo bikes that handled really well, but which had undesirable finishing kit (brakes/gears etc)

Different colours schemes on different models using the same frame. i.e. I can only afford the base model, but really want the colour they offer for the top of the range.

That my office has no windows. 😉

On the whole its ok, some mark ups can appear a bit steep. I've worked in worst industries/jobs though.

I know Orange full builds don't always scream value for money, but I hardly call this a rip off. What's the RRP of a stock seat post on a Five? What's the full RRP of a Reverb. I guarantee the difference is at least £230 if not more. Same with the Bottom bracket. Full RRP of a Hope BB is £75. We're spoilt in that there are so many online stores that will sell us stuff at a big reduction from retail price that we think anyone charging near-retail prices is ripping us off.

Crap wheels on everything, why not fit decent wheels, bearings etc I dont give a .... what the rear mech is.

Support your retailers, fed up of hearing LBS whinge, either give em all a good price or get rid of em.

I know Orange full builds don't always scream value for money, but I hardly call this a rip off

but Orange aren't a parts supplier, they sell bikes and frames. So why should they price parts at RRP, we know they are buying them cheap as an OE supplier because thats one of the ways we get them cheap from mail order.

Even your own example undermines your argument:

Full RRP for a hope BB might be £75, but the Race Face X-type it replaces has an RRP of £40. So charging £60 to fit a £75 part instead of a £40 part is a rip off. A buyer would do better to get the RF BB, then buy a Hope for £59 mail order and either have 2 BBs for the price Orange would have only supplied one, or sell the RF and end up ahead of the game.

Struggling to see how this is not a rip off, and why people would pay that sort of money to upgrade at the point of purchase (and I'm not an Orange Hater, as per earlier post I ride an Alpine 160).

wrecker - Member

Santa Cruz/Jungle UK price gouging

Don't get me started on the US/UK pricing jungle are the worst for this IMO. I wish SC would go to silverfish.

I ended up buying a Trek Top Fuel rather than a Santa Cruz Tallboy, after looking at the Santa Cruz US prices compared to the UK prices.

Rogerthecat, I meant the 'simple machine' bit as a compliment to your phrase and agreeing with that side of your point. I love simple bikes. There's still loads of choice for those that do.
Just took your post as a springboard into another point really, the fact so many bikes aren't simpler is because so many people want tech in life, they like gadgets and 'the next thing'.
I'd spec more simple rigid bikes in my job if I could, I'm pushing for them bit by bit, but we're up against customer demand that buys 'more' rather than 'less' in shops and most brands cater for that.
I don't buy into this common 'blame marketing' thing that crops up regularly. People give marketing too much credit for steering us. A lot of riders do want remotely travel-adjustable sus, 1x11 and dropper posts, why not - and so they get marketed. I see it as a 50-50 thing, one reacts to the other.

It wouldn't be too hard if the will was there for virtually all bikes to have the same mech hanger and virtually all disc brakes to use the same pads .

[i]Put rack and guard mounts on everything, please[/i]

god no!

American parts that aren't tested in Europe and fall apart at the merest hint of moisture.

(with regard to the Orange discussion)...the thing is that someone half competent with a spanner and the ability to shop around will always find a cheaper way to upgrade a stock bike themselves. I'm in that same position myself in that I'd like to get a bike shop to build me a custom bike but know that with careful shopping I could do it cheaper myself. How many bike shops would charge me £525 for full XT (including brakes) like Merlin? If there are any please speak up (I don't expect free labour by the way).

I'm ummed and ahhhd plenty of times on the Orange bike builder, wondering what to upgrade and what to leave until it wears out. The temptation to go overboard on the upgrades is always there. Orange must have looked at how cars are sold and how much money can be made by the add-ons. Their website is better than most when it comes to choosing a bike.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that we have an English bike manufacturer standing up to the big boys. I just find it disappointing that they've not bothered trying to offer good value (IMHO). A more cynical chap might suggest that they're taking advantage of their customers loyalty.

The way some things are changed/updated every few years when you need to change a part, and then said part isn't compatible with the parts you already have 😡 .

2013 cranks which are 15% stiffer than 2012 cranks which were 20% stiffer than 2011 cranks which were 25% stiffer than the year before's etc ....
Which means the cranks from 2009 was made from noodles???

For me it's brands making stuff that's unique to there bikes
My Spesh road bike uses a headset that I can only get from them
And gear hangs or brake pads

While other are knocking orange I will add my own
Today I got a hanger for my orange ht £25.00
Hanger for my Spesh bike is £10.00

I ended up buying a Trek Top Fuel rather than a Santa Cruz Tallboy, after looking at the Santa Cruz US prices compared to the UK prices.

I ended up buying a Swift instead of a Niner MCR9 after looking at Niner's US prices (I mean retail prices, with dealer mark up already added on).

Bloody glad I did too, it's great.

Lack of choice. Too many shops going for the "safe" brands.

The "industry" moaning about online superstores (Wiggle/CRC) and direct sellng (Canyon).

On One's naff branding

Lack of carbon frames with internal cable routing.

Orange boy have you tried Betd in Stoke for mech hangers they may be able to help you out had a few on other bikes. To add to the orange argument I own a 2012 five pro with a few add ons love the bike but have to agree they seem to be milking their customers I am pretty sure about 6 years ago a five pro was about 1700 quid now your looking at 3 grand. When on a demo day I questioned the Orange guy about direct sales but he said they are not geared up for it but I can't see it being a massive issue I would say a large portion of Orange's customer base must be within the uk, Orange don't even have distributer costs as the deliver direct to the shops and they are still not competitive on price I could drive to their door and still not get a good deal, think I may be shopping Yt next time

Miserable gits on the internet who think rigid bikes are awesome telling the rest of us anything invented since 1990 is a gimmick.

Oem pricing

Import duty and 20% vat when I loved in the UK (all us prices are generally quotes before and sales tax.)

The price of chainrings.

Companies trying any excuse they can to wriggle out of warranties
Acronyms
"Standards"
Companies that notice that people will buy crap just because it's pretty, and so choose to sell crap instead of making something better.
<and their associates, people who buy crap then moan>

And yes, you do have to be simple to pay for some of the Orange upgrades.