[Closed] Is the rise in cycling's popularity necessarily a good thing?

Not just cycling,sadly,it can be applied in every walk of life.If it's too easily accessible, most people won't do the groundwork involved in becoming a true enthusiast.

Thoughts?

I think you have assumed expertise on many things and also got them wrong.

The world is populated largely by idiots. Some of them ride bikes. Some drive cars. Most do both. If you're an idiot, you're an idiot.

Though its normally pretty easy to spot the difference between 'cyclist' and 'idiot who happens to be on a bike'

Though its normally pretty easy to spot the difference between 'cyclist' and 'idiot who happens to be on a bike'

as a cyclist yeah, but as someone who doesnt ride.... well its like a cat owner knowing the difference between a blue haired ring tailed farm cat and and lesser spotted sharp horned town cat, compared to a non cat owner simply knowing it's a cat.

I'd rather be run into by an idiot on a bike than an idiot in a car.

Al is the new TJ...

Coatesy what are you talking about? the ground work to be a true enthusiast? what ground work?

Are you a true enthusiast?

I'm not, but who cares. 😛

Apart from the obvious issue with that, one of the big problems is that they align themselves with safe cyclists, and it gives us all a bad name in the minds of everyone else.

I sometimes know what i'm thinking, and occasionally know what friends and family are thinking (not so much the missus though) but have absolutely no clue to what everybody else is pondering. How do you do that? 😀

Your background would effect how you feel about the image of cycling. Cycling's in your blood and if you're part of a chain that's supplying bikes to potential idiots, then you might feel a bit responsible for their safety or the damage they could do the reputation of cycling. But what is that exactly? Take drugs and cheat? Throw yourself off a cliff? Dress in silly gear and stare at the arse in front of you?

More people on bikes is good if you like to see other people cycling. As an example, a lot more people are cycling to work (at least 7 in our place - non of which even had a bike this time last year). I don't think any of them use their bikes for leisure, so their only real experience is with busy traffic. The ones that might be considered dangerous (no lights, no spatial awareness etc) will learn the easy way [i]or[/i] the hard way. It puts a smile on their face and on mine too.

the world is full of idiots.

unfortunately, we have to live with them.

they're easier to live with if they're on bikes, than if they're driving cars.

There seems to be less idiots in car/bike situations in continetal Europe (apart from Greece & Portugal)

"Danger to themselves and others"

I hear this a lot in relation to cyclists, but really, does anyone think it through?? Whilst i'm sure you can endanger yourself, theres absolutely no evidence for cyclists being a real "danger to others". An irritation maybe, and i'm sure you could think up some hypothetical situation where a cyclist could come out of a side road causing a HGV to swerve into an orphange or something, but theres no evidence they are a [b]significant[/b] cause of danger whatsoever.

Yes, more cyclists is a good thing. They won't all be enthusiasts, they're just using bikes for transport and its flippin difficult trying to cycle on the UK's roads, so cut them some slack and get used to it.

+1 HoratioHufnagel.

The more cyclists on the roads, the safer they'll all be. Take a look at Holland's participation rates and accident stats and week for Britain.

The more people riding on a regular-ish basis the better, so that when they do get in their cars to drive somewhere they are more mindful of, and hopefully respectful towards cyclists. This seems to be how it works in the Netherlands and Belgium from what I've seen.

And another thing: a change to the sentencing guidelines re. drivers knocking cyclists off (both literally and figuratively) is well overdue!

I just hope more and more cyclists about will eventually stop the arms race mentality that many drivers have.

I know you have a big metal box, and you will win, but the law says that we are human beings with equal rights. I hope the reality will match that one day.

HoratioHufnagel +2

Cyclists as in people who happen to be travelling from A to B, rather than 'cycle enthusiasts'
Very much for the better for all road users, apart from the minority of idiots.

I predict the arms race will come more and more into the public domain, thus forcing further debate and a closer look at the laws and the infrastructure.

I'm not sure if that is a good thing or not. Cyclists remain out numbered and undergunned politically. I suspect we will loose some of this battle.

[i]The more cyclists on the roads, the safer they'll all be. Take a look at Holland's participation rates and accident stats and week for Britain.

[/i]

This.

I came from a 'cycling' town, Goole, well it was when I was a kid. It was flat and most people cycled to work (and most worked in the town) because they couldn't afford cars - and why would you buy a car to go a mile?

It was safer then as there were hoards of cyclists and far fewer cars.

The more people riding on a regular-ish basis the better, so that when they do get in their cars to drive somewhere they are more mindful of, and hopefully respectful towards cyclists

This. Even if its a family member or partner whos taken riding up, hopefully it all adds up to more awareness, acceptance and understanding.

Is the rise in cycling's popularity necessarily a good thing?

Yes, emphatically so.

Cars kill people. Quite a lot of people EVERY DAY.

Bikes don't

People choosing to cycle instead of driving means in the long term less people die on the roads

People choosing to cycle instead of driving means in the long term less people die on the roads

Yup. And because cycling makes you fitter and healthier.

...we're seeing a real rise in arseholes who ride bikes (under the label of cyclist)

First off I'm of the opinion that an arsehole on a bike is marginally less dangerous than one in a car and they might even gain some appreciation of the challenges that cyclists face and become less of an arsehole... So more people on bikes is a net positive IMO.

I think there is plenty of work to be done in terms of building understanding in both directions; Not all cyclists are dangerous and not all drivers are either it's the minority in either group who tarnish the reputation of the whole.
As a cyclist and a driver(which suspect the majority of cyclists are these days) I see both sides of it, but ultimately we all just want to get where we are going in a safe and timely fashion...

The real danger here is one of perception (often from the meeeja) not matching reality, all it takes is a few foaming at the mouth Daily Mail articles and a Clarkson comment or two on telly and the picture painted is that all Drivers dream of running down cyclists (not the reality for 99.9% I would have thought)...

Likewise a couple of RLJing Fixie goons in that there London, in or goons dressed in black riding at night in Machester get themselves knocked off and all cyclists are tarred with the same irresponsible risk taker brush (Not the majority)...

I don't think most people are really that thick though are they... Most of us can distinguish between the actions of an individual and those of a group.

Like you say I don't see Arsehole drivers or cyclists, I see the odd arsehole in a car or on a bike...

I keep seeing people on bikes who have no idea what they're doing- on the roads they are a danger to themselves and others

The same kind of people also drive cars. That's a far more terrifying thought.

In my experience there are far more dangerous idiots in cars than on bikes (idiots on bikes are more of a danger to themselves, mostly. I say deal with car drivers firtst before we start worrying about cyclists.

I see a large number of RLJers around me and I personally I think it's a real piss take towards drivers.

If we can't obey something as fundamental as a red light, why would drivers treat us with the utmost respect?

If we can't obey something as fundamental as a red light, why would drivers treat us with the utmost respect?

Seeing as almost all drivers break the speed limit, why should we treat any of them with the utmost repsecrt?

People say that most most general public turn into nutters when they get into the warm safe coccoon of their cars.

I disagree, I just think most people are nutters.

Seeing as almost all drivers break the speed limit, why should we treat any of them with the utmost repsecrt?

Because two wrongs don't make a right, and a tit for tat attitude will get us nowhere. How can we complain about bad drivers while jumping red lights? It gives us no credibility.

Its pretty simple really. If you're on your bike, blatantly flouting the bits of the law that you don't fancy applying to yourself today*, in full view of everyone in their cars, you can't then start moaning that said people aren't then following the letter of the law, can you?

* Disclaimer: In certain circumstances the highway code doesn't apply to bikes. Ie: if cyclists are involved in some type of group 'celebration' 😉

It's funny how cyclists are supposed to see themselves as a homogenous mass, and somehow control the behaviour of the ones who break road rules. There's no such assumption with drivers, is there?

Its pretty simple really. If you're on your bike, blatantly flouting the bits of the law that you don't fancy applying to yourself today*, in full view of everyone in their cars, you can't then start moaning that said people aren't then following the letter of the law, can you?

By the same logic, if i drive my car do i have to ensure every single one of the other 30 million motorists obeys all speed limits before i could complain about a cyclist going through a red light?

The other problem is, there's a real righteous, vocal minority appearing (I know it's always been there, but until now it's been the reserve of sandal&sock wearing loonies) who are militantly anti-driver. They haven't been cycling long enough to really form arguments about things like cycle lanes (for example.) Their ill-informed arguments are about as intelligent as those of the moronic drivers on twitter, and I can't help feeling that it looks like we're sinking to their level.

WTF? How long do you have to cycle before you are qualified to come to the conclusion that cycle lanes are poorly designed and make the problem worse, not better?

The righteous vocal minority you talk about are simply people who are willing to stand up for themselves (and others) in the face of a growing movement to marginalise and demonize cyclists.

There is no "we" there are only people either driving or riding. We'll know that cycling has really reached national acceptance when people don't identify themsevles as cyclists just because they use a bike for transport.

Where I work ~ 70 % of people ride in but I'm the only cyclist in the office...

By the same logic, if i drive my car do i have to ensure every single one of the other 30 million motorists obeys all speed limits before i could complain about a cyclist going through a red light?

I'm not really sure that is the same logic though. You're free to complain about RLJing cyclists, but don't make your complaint in the form of speeding and driving badly. What Mikeconnor was suggesting that it's ok to jump red lights because drivers break the speed limit- which it is not.

What Mikeconnor was suggesting that it's ok to jump red lights because drivers break the speed limit- which it is not.

That isn't what he was saying at all.

What Mikeconnor was suggesting that it's ok to jump red lights because drivers break the speed limit- which it is not.

Erm...

That isn't what he was saying at all.

Thank you.

WTF? How long do you have to cycle before you are qualified to come to the conclusion that cycle lanes are poorly designed and make the problem worse, not better?

Perhaps I didn't phrase that correctly, there is no definite timescale. My issue is with people who have gotten all up themselves, having recently discovered cycling. Think: Luke Skywalker preaching to/lecturing Han Solo about not believing in the Force, only days after he's discovered it himself... bit dickish, no?

Edit: My apologies Mike, didn't mean to put word into your mouth. So what are you saying? Is it that all drivers have to stop breaking the speed limit before you'll show them respect?

Is the rise in cycling's popularity necessarily a good thing?

Yes

Think: Luke Skywalker preaching to/lecturing Han Solo about not believing in the Force, only days after he's discovered it himself... bit dickish, no?

...but he went on to destory the Death Star and save the Universe.

Think: Luke Skywalker preaching to/lecturing Han Solo about not believing in the Force, only days after he's discovered it himself

You need to get out more.

Edit: My apologies Mike, didn't mean to put word into your mouth. So what are you saying? Is it that all drivers have to stop breaking the speed limit before you'll show them respect?

Accepted. No, I just meant that respect should be mutual, and it's no good motorists complaing about cyclists' misdemeanours when their own transgressions can and are far more dangerous and have far greater consequences.

My issue is with people who have gotten all up themselves, having recently discovered cycling

I'd say the bigger issue with cycling is people who've been doing it for ages and can't or won't see the barriers to more people taking it up.

No, I just meant that respect should be mutual, and it's no good motorists complaing about cyclists' misdemeanours when their own transgressions can and are far more dangerous and have far greater consequences.

Absolutely, but it's still better to be the bigger man about it, and that only works if everyone does the same. A world where drivers and cyclists both behave perfectly, nice thought isn't it? 😆 I can keep dreamin...

Bikes rock.
The more people who ride, the better.

My issue is with people who have gotten all up themselves, having recently discovered cycling.

So where is the evidence that this is the case, or is it an assumption that you've made?

Even assuming that you're right, maybe these newbies, after being encouraged by the modern resurgence in cycling, and the spiraling costs and unreliability of driving/public transport, have discovered to their horror that driving standards in this country are far worse than they thought, and rather than impotently complain on internet forums and newspaper comment boards, they've decided to try to do something about it. Are you saying that's a bad thing?

Perhaps I didn't phrase that correctly, there is no definite timescale. My issue is with people who have gotten all up themselves, having recently discovered cycling. Think: Luke Skywalker preaching to/lecturing Han Solo about not believing in the Force, only days after he's discovered it himself... bit dickish, no?

That's pretty much how you came across in your first post - 26, recently out of university, and you know it all. But with no Death Star painted on the side of your X-wing.

I see a large number of RLJers around me and I personally I think it's a real piss take towards drivers.

If we can't obey something as fundamental as a red light, why would drivers treat us with the utmost respect?

I see car drivers RLJing every single day. I personally think it's a real piss take towards pedestrians.

In response to the OP's question I think there's an element of power and changing power on the roads going on here.
cars have been mass usage from 1950s onwards. Most people alive today therefore know nothing other then being able to drive where they want, when they want, without having to worry too much about cyclists.

There are more cyclists now which means a change in driver behaviour is necessary - primarily having to think a little more about others.

I think the core of the bad attitude to cyclists is simply this, it means the balance of power on the roads has changed.

When the car driving masses either ride themselves or get used to this change, things should be better. But for now, we're in a transition period whilst car drivers will need to adapt their expectations and behaviour. Some are ok to do this, some are like small children and throwing a tantrum (or an egg!)

I don't think it helps that modern cars cocoon drivers from the risks they take, and so they have little awareness of the riskiness of their driving style for others.

I think the required kind of culture change we're expecting will take 10+ years to come through... better enforcement of current law would help IMO

A savvy motorist should realise that every bike they see in town is "one less car" and as the only thing a driver likes less then cyclists is other cars, we are indeed doing our bit to make his day just a little bit happier.

I don't think the rise of the cyclist is the problem, but the continuing growth in the number of people isn't helping anyone.

but the continuing growth in the number of people isn't helping anyone.

guff-- its good for midwives and undertakers..

I see car drivers RLJing every single day. I personally think it's a real piss take towards pedestrians.

I see car drivers RLJing every single day. I personally think it's a real piss take towards me trying to turn right at the traffic lights 🙂