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For acceleration absolutely, but also for climbing yes?
Climbing is acceleration, i.e. each pedal strokes is accelerating the bike back up to the speed you are going. Stop doing that and you will stop.
In simple terms how quickly you will stop if you stop pedalling has more of a bearing on how important weight it
Uphill you stop fast, flat you stop slowly, downhill you don't stop
Climbing is acceleration
Only on steep climbs where your speed slows down between pedal strokes. If you can maintain a decent cadence then the slowdown between strokes is minimal enough to not matter imo. And, if you have heavier wheels you have more momentum so you will slow down less. And have more momentum to carry you through the dead spot of power.
So heavier could actually feel faster there too.
So are we saying there is little benefit to light wheels for most XC/ natural trail riding except where short bursts of acceleration is needed?
TBH the psychological effect can make a big difference, I think people tend to dismiss psychology but for me it's one of the biggest things that makes me fast or slow, if it feels fast I go faster. So in this case, that immediacy when you pedal is instantly rewarding and makes me want to pedal harder. The heavier, slower wheels and tyres on the remedy feel like [i]effort[/i], which I also kind of like because pedalling it up to speed feels fairly mighty and has a nice feeling of, I dunno, consequence- like the satisfaction of lifting a heavy thing. But it gets old! By the end of a long day I'm definitely less motivated to put legwork in.
OTOH the fatbike makes a cool noise when I pedal it and that's a wee feedback loop too. It's all good.
TBH the psychological effect can make a big difference, I think people tend to dismiss psychology but for me it's one of the biggest things that makes me fast or slow, if it feels fast I go faster.
I think this is very true, both ways. And new stuff always seems better. I've put new brake pads in and found myself climbing better, new chain and the (pretty much pedal free) techy descents are ridden better.
I feel a lot racier on a 21lb bike than a 24lb one.
So are we saying there is little benefit to light wheels for most XC/ natural trail riding except where short bursts of acceleration is needed?
Depends on taste. Snappy acceleration is nice, for sure, you may enjoy it.
I think people tend to dismiss psychology
Indeed - for those not racing (i.e. almost all of us) how fast we complete a particular trail in absolute terms makes no difference, it's only about enjoyment. We can gain satisfaction from doing a trail quicker than before but that's relative to the same bike - overall speed makes no difference. So psychology is all there is.
For racing, it's different. I'd be tempted nowadays to have both heavy and light wheels for different courses.
TBH when I think about it, that's probably a large part of the difference in handling too- if a bike feels more agile you'll go for moves that you might not otherwise, but that doesn't necessarily mean you couldn't have done it on a heavier bike. I can put a lighter bike places I can't with a heavier bike but that could be the rider not hte bike. Or more likely a mix.
Some interesting ideas here - psychology of riding etc and feeling faster.
Faster is good, but then so is economy of effort on an all day session (certainly not going to be an economy of wallet going lighter) and if lighter wheels/tyres bring that then its got to be good as I edge closer to fifty.
I'm in the situation now of deciding whether to upgrade the rims and tyres on my Orange Four from the standard Alex Volar 2.5 and Minion/High Roller to DT Swiss and Specialized. Not talking uber carbon light with paper thin tyres, but still a fair weight saving with good strength.
Hopefully it will mean on a 20-30 miler I'm less knackered/faster across the South Downs - and all for a modest-ish sum of circa £250.