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As per title really. In my search for a new hard tail - which will be my low maintenance night rider as well as general family ride duties - I fancy hub gears and possibly even rigid forks. The examples I've seen (e.g. Genesis Fortitude) are blooming heavy though. Any examples that aren't going to give me a hernia when I lift it up?
my ragley was 24/25ish lbs pending what tires were on
but that was a spendy build , ti frame , carbon forks , x2 race brakes and stans arch - did have a rohloff in the back
the bike is now SS , what does that say.
As everything, it's how you build it up. The hub gear (eg Alfine 8) is always going to weigh what it does. To compensate, get a nice light frame and rigid carbon forks etc. So, basically, hand pick the bits.
Anyway, the Alfine only weighs a little more than a normal 3x9 set up, it's just concentrated in one place, I think this makes it feel heavier than it really is.
The Genesis was £1500 give or take, which is spendy enough if you ask me. Are you talking more for a light build?
As for single speed, I love the idea in every way except the not-having-enough-gears way 😆
"it's just concentrated in one place, I think this makes it feel heavier than it really is. "
deadens the feel of the bike too , bikes much more trail friendly and skippy with the SS set up
my light build in a shop would have set you back 4 grand or there abouts.
i actually thought the hub was more suited to the thorn raven enduro i had before in terms of being a balanced bike ... shame the thorn was the most god awful shaped bike ive ever ridden then it fell apart - and to think they had the cheek to tell me 29ers would never catch on ....
you could knock 800 quid off it by fitting an alfine. I might kick my alfine off my road rat over to the ragley and do a compare contrast on how it affects the bike.
( i prefer the lack of feedback from the alfine when you ride it )
I've had a couple of 26" builds around 27lbs with std parts, so not weenie-light but tbh I'm not fussed about going much below that on a geared bike with a steel frame. It's balance that tends to be the perceived issue but I get used to it.
(If you wanted 26" wheels I may have something for sale of interest to a rider around 6ft.)
Anyway, the Alfine only weighs a little more than a normal 3x9 set up, it's just concentrated in one place, I think this makes it feel heavier than it really is.
Compared to a mid-range transmission perhaps, not what you'd call light though.
As always, you can do it, but its whether its cost effective. 1x10 doesn't need to be high maintenance, and weighs far less.
Tried 1x6, the cut-down 9spd cassette on a Hope SS hub idea with a reduced chainline and the more-problematic small cogs removed to give a 16-32 range, in an attempt to have a more direct, better chainline, light and winter-resistant (ie 4-6hrs+ use in proper filthy conditions) geared bike. It was marginally less rubbish than normal gears ) once it got really dirty.
Until someone makes a wide-range but large-step, light, efficient 5-spd hub, Alfine 8 or SS is the only lighter/cheaper properly winter-proof option imo. Weight is hardly a major issue when you're churning along at 5-6mph half the time and carrying a kg or so of mud.
Weight is hardly a major issue when you're churning along at 5-6mph half the time and carrying a kg or so of mud
This is when it makes the difference I reckon. Am I a dying breed of cyclist who places a lot of value on keeping bike weight down?? When I'm dragging my bike through mud and carrying it through deep snow I don't want it to feel like a ground anchor 😆
My old bike - an old Bianchi MTB with carbon forks - wasn't boutique light but it was the right side of 25lbs and felt floaty. It was a pleasure to ride. I'm looking for similar but with a nicer "frame for life". Hub gears appealed for winter proofing but I need to have a test ride cos I'm a bit concerned I won't like the rear weight bias.
[i]Am I a dying breed of cyclist who places a lot of value on keeping bike weight down?? When I'm dragging my bike through mud and carrying it through deep snow I don't want it to feel like a ground anchor[/i]
Yes, along with me 🙂
Only time I ever notice the weight of my hub gears is lifting it into the car, I can still ride, jump, float & fall exactly as I did with normal gears
Granted, lighter can feel good, when I say it's not a major issue I mean within normal HT MTB weights. I won't put heavy parts on my bikes without good reason and consider each part's weight, but I can't tell you what any of the complete bikes weigh, they are what they are for a function. My Alfine iO was 'about' the same as my steel 120mm HT with XT and tough wheels. Don't mean it as a weenie-debate anyway ) I guess the q is what's most important, all-up weight or hub-gear funcion?
True. I was just surprised and disappointed that a not-inexpensive rigid bike with Alfine gears felt so heavy
It may 'ride lighter' ) It all adds up tho, steel f+f, cheaper discs, finishing kit - could take 2-3lbs off I expect if you start from a frme and used a carbon fork etc.
I have a Salsa Selma 29er scandium-with-carbon-seatstays frame that I got off the classifieds on here. It's light enough with an Alfine hub, insanely light-feeling as a singlespeed. Really nice to ride. Massively lighter than the Haro Mary steel frame it replaced. Don't think they make the frame any more though. I'd imagine any scandium frame, from the likes of On One, would be similarly light, though, as a starting point?
I've got a ti Voodoo D-Jab with a Rohloff Speedhub. Noticeably lighter to ride than the steel frame it replaced. Presently got 150mm Thors on it (whcich are quite light for their performance), but I'm about to experiment with rigid forks and a 29" front wheel...
Note, the Rohloff is lighter than the Alfine-8, but similar (I think) to an Alfine-11.
How about a 2 speed auto hub from Sram
they do a disc version
http://www.sram.com/sram/urban/products/automatix
How about a 2 speed auto hub from Sram
I think not. From Sram's own website:
It's a fantastic system for riding around town, with a [b]minimum of terrain changes[/b].
Not exactly a good definition of mountain biking 😆
Only time I ever notice the weight of my hub gears is lifting it into the car, I can still ride, jump, float & fall exactly as I did with normal gears
totally disagree.
that much weight, that far back made bike ride like a total bag of crap for me. fine for touring, road etc. but if you like to thrash round the woods, hell no.
ir-bandito is it ?
it certainly doesnt feel like it on my bike ....
rear of bike also more prone to punctures.
That 2 speed hub isn't too good, to get the best out of it you have to pull it apart & bend some internal springs.
The alfine 8 seems to hold its value fairly well so buy one, try it & if you don't like it, sell it at minimum loss
Tried this on my steel hardtail with a 9sp Alfine. Had some headache with the whole wheel conversion, getting the right spoke length on a 29er wheel with the alfine was painful.
Worked great, the weight issue was probably more psychosomatic than reality (I thought it felt heavy, so it was..).
There is something very unique about the feel of internal gears, there is definitely a perceivable disconnect between the crank and the drive. This may be less noticeable on the more expensive (rohloff) hubs, but it bothered me to the point (echo Trail_Rat) its now a SS. Still, internal gears are a marvel, the shifting is exceptionally smooth, some care still needs to be taken when shifting under load, but in the muck, its nice to know all the gubbins are protected. If you can get used to the 'feel', it makes a lot of sense.
It's a fantastic system for riding around town, with a minimum of terrain changes.Not exactly a good definition of mountain biking
think that si more to do with only having 2 gears.
as above you can mod them to alter speed, but more an issue for use on the road as speeds are higher
how about the 135mm oln disc 3 speed nexus as fitted to some Specialized urban hybrids?
1 gear for climbs, 1 for flat offroad and one for road/canal paths
I doubt the number of gears is directly proportional to the weigh, you might as well have more gears for marginally more weight
There is something very unique about the feel of internal gears, there is definitely a perceivable disconnect between the crank and the drive. This may be less noticeable on the more expensive (rohloff) hubs, but it bothered me to the point (echo Trail_Rat) its now a SS
imo its more noticable on my rohloff than on my and mrs TRs alfines....
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I doubt the number of gears is directly proportional to the weigh, you might as well have more gears for marginally more weight
yer true Nexus 3 speed is 1200g (for a steel shell one) [s]not sure how much the 135 alloy shell one weighs.[/s]
apparently 945g
$120
alfine 11 1600g?
nice that on the 3 speeds the centre gear is direct though so like a single speed but with a bail out either side
That bit on the right doesn't look too robust
that bit is made of metal and is robust - they are used on Paris velibs and they get proper abuse.
certainly less likely to snag than a derailluer and you coudl always put a little gaurd over it
Not quite as neat as the alfine solution though is it.
SRAM really should take their hub gear & hammerschmit technology and product a good off-road range
I've been experimenting with a new 3 speed Sturmey hub - 135mm olnd with a 6 bolt disc mount on rigid and hardtail 29ers. Also compared directly against Alfine, ss (Hope on Crests) and 6 speed derail (cut down casette on the Hope ss as per jameso).
Weight wise, I'd say it goes ss-6spd-sturmey-alfine with approx 1lb steps between each option.
3spd Sturmey pros:-
Feels a lot nicer to pedal than the Alfine - hasn't got that mushy feeling whilst the Alfine roller cams engage.
Centre 1:1 gear is totally direct and feels very efficient, as does the lowest gear when climbing hills.
Sturmey thumb shifter really nice.
Never slipped, graunched or missed a beat - including stupid steep hills in Austria when on holiday. Eventually had to swap to the 6spd derail emergency setup because I couldn't take the Alpine pain anymore (even though a regular UK / lake district singlespeeder).
New Sturmeys don't have the painful between gears freewheel "feature" that came with old school Raleigh grifters, Choppers etc......
The latest design takes regular cassette sprockets.
3 spd sturmey cons:-
No / minimal sealing - it isn't going to last a UK winter off road.
Cable routing might need some invention / use of older style sturmey axle nuts etc.
Cassette sprocket still held on with a circlip - need shims to get the thickness right / hold it without float.
Tick tick tick tick tick in gears 2 & 3.
The 135mm locknut dimension is achieved using a long axle and piles of locknuts. So getting the right chainline can be tricky (sprocket a long way inboard on hub). This also means bearings are a long way in, so axle isn't well supported. I'd imagine the axle will bend / break at some stage (the axle is already hollow on one side plus a slot in the middle to let the gear shift gubbins through).
Gear range still a bit limited - plus might explode with some extreme low gear sprocket setups 🙂
Overall - very impressed with the Sturmey but we aren't there yet.
Whatever happened to that Canyon 3 speed internal hub I vaguely remember knocking around in prototype form last year? That might be all I needed for the commute.