[Closed] Is it me or is mountain biking

Depends how succeptable you are to being marketed too as well. As someone who knows that while still running positively stone aged equipment - 9 x 3, 1 1/8 forks with QR 26" wheels - that I'm still not going find the limits of it. And I'm happy with that. I doubt very much that a carbon frame, tapered forks, 20mm axles, 1x 10 drive chain etc are either going to make me a better rider, or more importantly; make me enjoy it any more.

So if you settle for that quaint technology of a by-gone, more innocent era, then you can build yourself a really really nice, capable piece of kit for an absolute fraction of the cost of the average unit hanging off the back of an Audi in Llandegla car park

I thought it was quite telling that none of the manufacturers would supply 26" wheeled bikes for a back to back, £1300 price-point test in this months mag. Perhaps they're all too aware of that too

Prices do go up for raw materials and what not but as demand increase you may expect these factors to level each other out.

I left the bike trade five years ago, but in the weeks before I left the company I worked for changed their pricelist three times.

The reason? The US Dollar, the Yen and the Pound Sterling were going up and down like yo-yos, and oil was increasing in price by the day.

So when you factor in that oil goes into most bike products (rubber, plastics) and fuels the vehicles carrying bike products from China to the UK, the currency fluctuations and the fact that everyone in the chain needs to take their percentage cut, you end up with more expensive products. This is before a rise in VAT too.

I believe it is more expensive but - as already said - the flipside is that there's some great trickle-down technology available now.

Its a capitalist marketplace, the vendors prices will expand into the market.
You can blame the rest of us for paying too much..

Bikes aren't too expensive as such, people can just afford/justify really nice ones so top end prices are booming. The rest of us are buying more normal stuff that's subject to a lot of wear and tear and expecting a lot of use from it. Full sus, dropper post, gears etc, if you ride a lot, have a lot of functions etc, it costs a lot. Or you have Deore/SLX/Recons etc which is largely as good or better than XT/Reba-Fox of a few years ago.
We often base our value markers against the model-name of kit rather than what it actually is and a price that's consistent with inflation etc.

I ride a lot so I have a rigid SS and it hardly costs anything yearly. The initial cost was high but it's great to ride and the cost-per-mile is low, lowering all the time. Riding is as much fun as it's ever been. Buy less things but buy more durable things.

something to think about in 1996 a Rock Shox Judy SL was listed at c£600 I seem to remember, think about 17years of inflation, now tell me that a sid for a £1000 is actually excessive, when you think the Judy used a few bits of rubber as springs and a Cartridge damper that failed if you ever used it!

plyphon - Member

Two people have posted £1000+ plus bikes as "great value". One at 1300, t'other at 1500.

t'other was me 🙂

To the average person, spending over £1k on a BIKE is absolutely mental ... However that doesn't mean it's good value.

Whether you like to admit it or not, it's still a £1300/1500 BIKE. A lot of peoples CARS don't cost that.

even a £1500 bike is cheaper/less expensive than a few years Gym membership.

which would you rather spend £50/month on?

bear in mind that even if you choose the 'gym' option, you'll still need a hobby.

still think £1500 is a silly amount?

how about this;

[img] [/img]

£350 - it's an astonishing amount of bike for the price of 6 months membership at a climbing wall.

Not really. The OP was asking if biking is too expensive now, vs back in the day. You get a more capable bike for less money these days, hence the answer is no.

Whilst the OP was certainly making reference to what he paid in the past, the way I interpreted it was

"Is mountain biking too expensive".

I think there wouldn't be much of a thread if it was as you suggested, as everyone knows you get more bike for your money these days compared to back in the 80/90s - but that doesn't stop it from being expensive.

bear in mind that even if you choose the 'gym' option, you'll still need a hobby.

eh? I know many, many people who have the gym as their hobby.

the gym comparison is fairly weak and breaks down once you remove the gym - and just include the activity (Lifting weights, for example).

A pro body builder can use a £30 set of weights from Argos and have the same experience as a set of £300 quid weights.

This analogy breaks down once you start to include more complex form of exercise, but then even so the comparison to a gym doesn't really work.

You spend £20 (what it costs round here) a month on gym, and for that year when the gym updates it's equipment to get immediate access.

When you buy a bike, it looses half it's value as soon as you take it out the shop.

So it's not really a proper comparison of value. The gym membership is a service almost, where as the bike is a product.

if you were comparing a bike to say, a rowing machine, then the comparison would work.

still think £1500 is a silly amount?

I never thought £1500 was a silly amount. I think that's really good value. But then again, I ride bikes. 😆

I think people need to remember that good value is not inherently proportionate to expense. You can have good value expensive things, and shit value cheap things (and vice versa) - the discussion is the expense of mountain biking - not the value.

The 1300/1500 bikes are great value and I'd defo buy that giant, but it is still very expensive, even more so to "normies" who don't ride - £1500 is a lot of money to a lot of people (maybe not here) whatever way you slice it, is my point.

It's only *expensive* if you buy brand new stuff...

I dread to think of the "RRP" value of bike stuff in the house.... eye watering

the price of 6 months membership at a climbing wall.

Plyphon - you may know many many people who's hobby is going to the gym. Just out of interest; would you want to volounterily spend more than 2 minutes in the company of any of them? Just wondering, like? 😉

Plyphon - you may know many many people who's hobby is going to the gym. Just out of interest; would you want to volounterily spend more than 2 minutes in the company of any of them? Just wondering, like?

A lot of the perma-spraytan types are insufferable, but I lived 3 years with a pro body builder and he is one of the most standup guys I know who hates the poser types.

incredibly dedicated to his sport, was quite inspiring really.

On that note, I guess the perma-spraytan gym posers are akin to the carpark mincers with full XT of the bike world, so go on - hands up. 😆

We could really do with CRC getting flooded again, I picked up loads of cheap stuff from that, cassettes, chains, rear mechs, the sort of stuff that wears out and doesn't go off. All my "stock" has gone now though.

i stand by my gym comparison.

and i'll push it a little further.

no one bats an eyelid if you tell them you've got gym membership, or a sky subscription, or an iphone, or a new car, or a new Xbox, or do a bit of coke every now and then, or a new camera, or a season ticket for your local premiership footy team, or get drunk every weekend, or gamble, or smoke, or redecorate your front room (again), or buy an espresso machine, or get a tattoo.

but if you choose [u]not[/u] to indulge in a few of those, and instead spend a fraction of the money saved on a (really very good) bike, that will help you remain happy and healthy for many years, you're a weirdo, and peoples' heads will explode as they try to comprehend the insane amount of money you've wasted.

I think you can enjoy on as little or as much as you like. I like to constantly change and get new stuff. As a result my wife says I look like I live on the streets in my clothes which are considerably older than my kids.

I think this thread is a brilliant example of the issue,

Two people have posted £1000+ plus bikes as "great value". One at 1300, t'other at 1500.

To the average person, spending over £1k on a BIKE is absolutely mental.

Perspectives indeed. I'd say they are top end bikes. Not budget options. It may be value for money, but to most people that is a bloody [i]lot[/i] of money (I don't know which Gyms you go to!)

The way I see it, if you spend more than that, you're going into the equivalent of Lamborghini territory, albeit on a much more affordable scale. Stuff that you don't need, but is very nice to have, if you have the cash.

In reality, there's no need to spend more than a few hundred quid on a bike. You might have to compromise on some things, but we do this in most parts of our lives. Really we have more choice than ever, all of great performing bikes. We're just constantly told we need more.

I have an 'expensive' FS bike which I bought new before I new much about bikes - and a 'cheap' hardtail which I bought of eBay. Including improvements but not consumables (chains, pads, lube) they work out at 55p a mile and 20p a mile respectively which makes them the 'cheapest' bikes in my household.

In the 4 years I've been riding the 'top end' seems to have got much more expensive. At the 'good basic' level many bikes are more expensive or have poorer kit at the same pricepoints (especially forks), but online sellers like Canyon and shops like Halfords seem to have kept prices down.

For bits though, there are plenty of value options - I'm a big fan of Superstar, On-One and Carboncycles... and lights are MUCH cheaper (my last XM-L2 torch was under £10).

Yep I think the crack and whores are beginning to look like a cost effective pastime .
( I have actually used the ' bikes are cheaper than ....' defence when harassed by the woman in charge)

Thing is, isn't "everything" more expensive now?

It costs me nearly £100 to fill my car with fuel
"Dinner for 2", at a mediumly priced restaurant can easily be £150 with taxis
A magazine in WHsmiths can cost £5
A pint of beer, well who knows these days!

The difference with Mountain bikes, is that as technology has pushed into the sport more and more (as will ALL sports) the amount you "can" spend has increased. The amount you "need" to spend to get any given level of tech, has i think fallen in real terms?

i stand by my gym comparison.

and i'll push it a little further.

no one bats an eyelid if you tell them you've got gym membership, or a sky subscription, or an iphone, or a new car, or a new Xbox, or do a bit of coke every now and then, or a new camera, or a season ticket for your local premiership footy team, or get drunk every weekend, or gamble, or smoke, or redecorate your front room (again), or buy an espresso machine, or get a tattoo.

but if you choose not to indulge in a few of those, and instead spend a fraction of the money saved on a (really very good) bike, that will help you remain happy and healthy for many years, you're a weirdo, and peoples' heads will explode as they try to comprehend the insane amount of money you've wasted.

No see you're miss understanding the argument.

You're talking about [b] value[/b], personal worth. That's subjective.

I'm (and what I think the OP is) talking about [b]expense[/b], that's [b]objective[/b] (based on the average income, of course). Based on the average income, £1500 is a lot of money.

It may or may not be a lot of money, [i] to spend on a bike [/i] depending on how you feel about bikes.

What i'm saying is a £1500 bike is expensive.

FWIW, I bought a 2nd hand MTB for £700, done probably 150-200 quid worth of upgrades. I love it and think it's a steal for the fun I get from it, even more so compared to what it would cost me for the same bike as new - but I won't deny £900 quid is a lot of my money!

You're talking about value, personal worth. That's subjective.

no i'm not, i've simply listed a load of things that normal people happily spend their money on.

you don't have to sacrifice much to free up £50/month (the finance payments for a 3yr £1500 hire/purchase)

here's another way to help get approval from the fun police: i find exercise reduces my alcohol tolerance, so i drink less, even 1 pint less/week is a tenner/month!

buy a bike - it'll save you money 🙂

Doh! I skimmed the whole thread thinking nobody had mentioned finance and then right in the last post 😉 ;D

I'm sorry, but the average wage is what,
£26k? these days. Theres enough flexibility there to get you a very good bike on 0%- certainly £13-1500 worth.

I personally earn a LOT less than the average wage yet because I wanted to (thus was able to prioritise) was able to afford a £3k bike on 0%
It was costing me £125 a month for three years but I've just managed to pay it off after one year.

If you're not that in to it, then yes, it can appear to be expensive if you chose it to be. If you want to just ride your bike then it's cheap enough for everyone.

Its as expensive as you want to make it. As much fun no mater how much or little you spend.

Your not a tight bastard everything as gone way to expensive.

I'm yet to see how access to mtb-ing has actually become more affordable.

To give one concrete example, specs have been driven down every year since 2008, in line with the global recession. A specialized allez, for instance, had tiagra as standard in 2008: now it's more expensive than an inflationary rise and has a lower spec (sora).

The above-mentioned gt timberline at £350, would be a pig on climbs, presumably massively over-weight because of its cheap componentry.

A finance deal at £150 per month being touted as affordable ... seriously! That's considered by most average households as significant disposable income. Most people would be quite rightly leery of getting themselves into debt on finance, too. Bear in mind that £1500, plus any extras, up keep, etc, is more than the average monthly wage!

It's all well and good suggesting that 'it's what you make of it', but for those with no extra capital it can feel pretty frustrating seeing prices of basics and bike shop costs going up and up. I think the greater-spotted mamil had a lot to answer for!

Ok, if finance isn't your thing, then use your cheapo bike (anything will do here) to get fit on whilst you save- then buy a nice second hand bike for £600 next year.

I'm sorry, but not everything has to be INSTANT to be classified as accessible. Go and watch local races, volunteer as a Marshall, read books, help your local club trail clearing or start your own local group.
In the meantime, the spannering you learn keeping your heavy shonker running will prove invaluable when you work your way up to a good bike.

jameso - Member
the price of 6 months membership at a climbing wall.
Holy crp. Gritstone is free )

It's not though is it. You need to get there and have the relevant equipment, which all wears out and isn't cheap these days. The same goes for hill walking.

The Santa Cruz 5010C gets a pretty good write up in this months What Mountain Bike mag. I should bloody well hope so too seeing as it costs £8k !! Not really sure who's spending nearly a grand on new forks either? It's not surprising decent second hand ones are holding their money.

Buying everything brand new will always be expensive but there are certain things that warrant it. Due to the kids i never now go to the pub or clubbing spending stupid money on beer, taxis and kebabs...and quite happy spending it on bike parts instead...albeit i still get great stuff on classifieds like a really good as new stem for 50% of the usual price.

I dont give a toss about what other people have or have not...my cycling is about me and my release from the mind numbing tedious day to day rat race. Just get out and ride even if its on a grifter or chopper!

My Niner frame cost a fair bit, but it's ss & runs rigid most of the year. I picked up some SH Rebas to go on over summer for £100 off here. I don't think I've spent anything more than about £100 on it in 2 years.

On the flip side, my riding buddies have spent over £6k each in that time, buying the next best thing. We still cover the same ground, at the same speed. I wouldn't swap my Niner for any other bike tbh. I revel in it's simplicity. Might treat it to a respray next year.

I'm still riding my first real MTB that cost £500! a lot of the parts have been changed but nothing expensive.

Currently building my new bike which works out at something like £1.5k Last time I checked 😯

Which is a lot of money for me, but it's not finished and i started buying bits about 6 months ago... so a lot easier to handle than splashing £1.5k on a new bike (not to mention the fact i get exactly the spec i want this way)

in 2000 the average UK wage was 20.5k. last year it was 29k'ish.
In 2000 the cost of a XT rear mech was about £40, its not about £80.

2005 marzocchi bombers Z! freeride £379
2013 marzocchi RC3 Ti £879
Same amount of product, R&D costs similar, price = disproportionate increase.

This is a mature and popular market, but 10 years back it was far less so.

^ so wages have risen pretty much in line with inflation since 2000. Rear mechs, forks etc have added tech and gained in price (ie XT RD - std parallelogram design like a beefed up road mech vs new Shadow plus clutch mech, or coil+open bath fork vs multi-mode dampers, air springs etc), but an equivalent level of technology is available for less than the yr2000 price plus inflation. Online, an XT Shadow+ mech seems to have found a retail value of about £50-60.
R+D costs don't really increase but I see more complexity in most bike parts now, more features, tooling costs etc. There's also exchange rates and labour cost increases against us. All that adds up and I don't see any real evidence of bike companies, distributors etc making greater % profits than 2002-3 ish. Less if anything, it's more competitive now that online retail has matured and that means you're probably getting a better deal if you shop around.

lardman - Member

2005 marzocchi bombers Z! freeride £379
2013 marzocchi RC3 Ti £879

Same amount of product, R&D costs similar, price = disproportionate increase.

same amount of product? - only if you weigh them.

Most people don't really need anything more than Deore spec these days. This years Deore is a fantastic jump over previous and so much cheaper than even the next level (SLX) up and you won't cry when you rip the RD off like an XTR.

my main outrager is that trickle down stops at deore. everything above has arguably seen progres and improvement wheras the cheaper groupsets just seen to get more plasticky.

There are plenty of rideable £350 bikes available, but why making a light rigid bike for £150 is beyond the abilities of the chinese I'm never quite sure, the first hit is meant to get you hooked, not hurt.

My first mtb was a [url= http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157159 ]Raleigh Yukon[/url] - it cost £330 quid in 1992, equivilent to £580 quid today.

It had cantilever brakes, no suspension and 200 gs gears.

Today you can get [url= http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_777775_langId_-1_categoryId_289005 ]this boardman[/url] for £580 quid

and the GT someone posted earlier is 200 quid cheaper, but still comes with bouncy fork and disk brakes

2005 marzocchi bombers Z! freeride £379
2013 marzocchi RC3 Ti £879
disproportionate increase

same amount of product? - only if you weigh them.

and only if you pay rrp. My 2010 RC3Tis were ~£420 new in 2011.

In the 90s a RS Judy XC cost >£300, had simple elastomers and a feeble oil cartridge to give some semblance of rebound damping for 2 weeks before it blew. My RS Revelations cost under £300 brand new (with a free headset, thankyou Merlin) and are leagues better in sophistication, adjustability, performance and reliablity.

If you believe mag reviews and grouptests 700 quid is a typical price for a trail fork, and if that were the case, arguably MTBing has become expensive/overpriced. My 2 forks cost £700 together....

As per tpbiker's post, my first bike, a 1993 GT Pantera, cost £500 (reduced from rrp of around £650), had cantis, rigid steel forks, and low-mid range components (Exage ES groupset and in-house/budget-brand bar/stem/post).

This current-year 500 quid GT has hydraulic disks and sus forks with lockout.

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b1s2p5337/GT-AVALANCHE-SPORT-2014

Mail order and grey market has transformed the marketplace and made a mockery of big brand RRPs.

it is bloody expensive

and a lot of things are overpriced

you can get good deals on bikes, but forks, shocks and tyres can be a right rip off

I'm on the same tyres I got 2 years ago, £50 an end is shocking, especially when my half decent car tyres (toyo proxes) cost the same fitted

fork prices have increased a lot, £700-£900 seems acceptable, which is frankly ridiculous

STW is probably the wrong place to complain about prices though

Unless something costs 3 times as much as it's less niche/hard to find equivalent, it's no good

See £200 wellies, £200 bike jackets etc

you can get good deals on bikes, but forks, shocks and tyres can be a right rip off

I'm on the same tyres I got 2 years ago, £50 an end is shocking, especially when my half decent car tyres (toyo proxes) cost the same fitted

If all MTB tyres were £50 a piece I'd agree with you. My preferred rubber, Minion DHs, are 20 quid each. You [i]choose[/i] to ride 50 quid tyres therefore they arent a rip-off. You have the option to buy cheaper tyres.

fork prices have increased a lot, £700-£900 seems acceptable, which is frankly ridiculous

Seems acceptable to who...- see my previous post.

jools182 - Member

I'm on the same tyres I got 2 years ago, £50 an end is shocking

And right at the high end 😕 You can put 2 high quality specialized tyres on your bike for £54. Or you can choose £50 an end.

Here's a very straight comparison, 2 decent entry level halfords bikes. Got my Carrera Krakatoa in about 1991, for £360. Steel rigid with a flexstem, mix of altus and mountain exage components, cantis. For its day, a pretty respectable bike at the price, and the quality of components was excellent (both hubs are still going today!)

In 2010, got a Carrera Kraken. Also £360. Alu hardtail with Suntour XCRs, tektro hydraulic discs, SRAM X5 shifting. The wheelset and cranks were lower quality, but the capability of the bike is immensely better- it's a true first mountain bike that will do 99% of what people buy £2500 full susses for.

That's not even taking into account inflation, and yet there's already no competition possible.

Bits have got pricier - this has been led by sram it would seem. When XX came out it was 2 or 3 times the price of XTR. A decent set of forks can be had for c£350 new from various online sources, and that's a massive amount less than in the mid-90s, plus they actually work.

I buy some bits off here that don't wear out - examples include King hubs for £150 the pair once I'd unbuilt and sold the rims, a set of Reba 29ers for £70 that needed a full strip down but were otherwise immaculate and a set of brand new Fox F100 Kashima for £300. There are ways of buying cleverly so it doesn't have to cost a fortune. Saying that, I've just bought a Moots stem from eBay for £150 thinking it was a bargain, which it was as they retail for £420, but that's just mental and I would never even come close to spending that on a stem. I think with the advent of sites like this one, and eBay, you can build an excellent bike for a lot less than in the past. The only things I'd never buy used are chains and cassettes.

The prices of a lot of frames and full priced forks are just silly - £3k for a plastic frame and £900 on forks is insane.

GB

gee - Member

A decent set of forks can be had for c£350 new

i paid £120 for a rockshox xc32 29er fork.

they've 'only' got qr dropouts, and 'only' turnkey damping, but honestly, they're bloody good.

(more than up to the job of amateur trail bashing)

20 years ago i bought a £350 pace fork, which was quite frankly, shit.

i've always wondered what LBS and importers do with the old bikes that they couldn't sell. For example, CRC had loads of early-2000s Konas which were good value.

I don't think that there was much interest though

Some things are just [b]not[/b] fair.
Every day I cry my little eys out thinking about my dream car.
[img] [/img]
I will never,never own one or even get the chance to drive one.
The second hand ones are a complete rip off,could they not drop the million £ price so that everyone can share in the supercar experience?
If only I could find happiness with the [b]luxury[/b] items that I [b]can[/b] afford.
I really should have stuck in at school.

Oh hang on a minute,I don't need that Veyron to get to work ,and I would always be worried about some jealous torag scratching it ,when I parked in town.
Phew ,glad I got that in perspective. 😀

If you think mountain biking is expensive try putting an engine in between those two wheels and try a foreign motorcycle track day.

I go through £630 worth of tyres every four days and do 2 or 3 trips a year!