Or do we expect too much ?Bottom brackets that are knackered in no time,pads even sintered can't hack wet , muddy conditions ,so called waterproof gear that isn't in no time at all.Expensive Fox forks that have stanchion issues the list goes on .If this stuff was in more general use i'm sure programmes like Watchdog would be classing it as not fit for purpose .Is it because it's a minority pastime that caters for enthusiasts and we don't expect too much ?I know our country is traditionally a warzone regarding conditions (or at least manuvacturers think it is )but even so .After all none of this stuff is exactly cheap to buy .
My latest example 2 brand new , bedded in pairs of Hope pads nearly finished after 2 really wet rides .Thats £25 a weekend FFS!4 Summer months from a Race Face b/b it's a joke !
It's a shitlot better than 10 years ago. I think the majority of stuff is well engineered now. But the prices are really starting to take the piss.
Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu?
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-do-us-lot-accept-shoddy-goods
Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu?
Yep 🙂
If it's got wheels or tits it's gonna cost you.
Back in my day it were all fields... 😉
If it's got wheels or tits it's gonna cost you.
Word. One set of tits seems to cost me far more than seven pairs of wheels though.
We could engineer stuff to last longer, but nobody would buy it becuase it weighs 3 tonnes.
Anyone else getting a sense of deja vu?
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-do-us-lot-accept-shoddy-goods
😉
You should have spoken to me ADH, I know a very good surgeon.
Not sure if its because of the light weight thats built into bike parts...
I used to run and MX bike for a full season of national level racing with just the odd top end overhaul (2 strokes) and a couple of sets of brakes pads and just the usual maintenance you would expect like greasing up the suspension everynow and then, jet washed too!! Only had to replace a couple of fork seals in years & years of racing.
Every now and then you would get a bike that required a lot more fettling, usualy the more you spent on aftermarket go faster stuff more of a pain in the ar5e it was.
Some MTB kit I have bought has just been plain useless, from poor design.
But my bike's have been fairly bulletproof to be honest other than wear and tear stuff, I dont think its to fair on HT2 type BB not lasting, they do last with just a tiny bit of maintenace, leave them and of course they will die.
Mr Agrreable wow your memory !Forgot that oops !
There is the Theory of the Moebius, a twist in the fabric of space, where time becomes a loop, from which there is no escape.
Quote from Star Trek, but it could also apply to this place at times. 😉
You should have spoken to me ADH, I know a very good surgeon.
LOL. You got me.
It's a shitlot better than 10 years ago
depends what you were running 10 years ago.
1999 Marzocchi bombers - virtually indescructable, you still see people running them today occasionaly.
Square Taper bottom brackets - lasted ages, i'm still running one on my commuter
Disc brakes - Hope ones lasted pretty well, all spares available.
Drivetrain - i'm sure 7/8 speed was longer lasting than todays 9 speed (although i think it got introducted in 1999 ish)
Glasses - they were clear rather than rose-tinted 😉
There is the Theory of the Moebius, a twist in the fabric of space, where time becomes a loop, from which there is no escape.
Ace scarfs too.
Ok, accentuate the positive. What stuff have you bought which lasts and lasts? Or what stuff burns half as long, but twice as brightly? Super tacky DH tyres work so damn well compared to 60A ones, I don't really mind chucking them away after a year.
low weight is a big factor imo: parts are engineered to be light rather than as durable as they could possibly be. Weight is not such a big deal in MX. Also fork seals etc in MX can be tighter (and therefore fork as a whole is more durable) as the weight of the bike overcomes stiction better. However there are proper dirt bike engines that are best services/rebuilt every 30 hours of riding. Not a million miles away from soem of our reccommended service intervals!
the UK is a lot muddier / grittier than most places, esp those where a lot of the kit is designed..
and most of us don't follow maintenence schedules too well either )
but is some of it is simply a case of getting what you pay for and not realising how expensive good sealing / tolerances are, or expecting too much? (not at OP, just in general)
TBH though it doesn't take much research to find out which bits last, and which bits don't. It also doesn't take a great deal of effort to keep it in decent working order, I think a lot of people just expect it to "work" regardless of the conditions it was last used in, and how it's been stored since, just because it's a rufty-tufty mountain bike...
All of the kit on my bike is just about to go through it's second winter, cables, brakes, shifters, the lot. I don't expect to be changing anything...
Stuff is much better than before. Years ago I remember having to regrease headsets, hubs, bottom brackets, pedals after ever couple of rides. Brake pads needed replacing regularly. That is without talking about the reliabilty of forks before the first Bombers. Early RockSHox anyone? I used to do far more maintenance on far simpler (but not cheap then) bikes.
Buy some cheap sintered pads - everyone favour hate company is doing 4pairs for £24, cheaper than rim brake pads. As for waterproof and Fox forks, I don't think that these are the major "watchdog" issues. I don't see the problems of they are suitably maintained.
The first HTII bb were not great but Shimano seem to have addressed this. Maybe RaceFace bb are worth talking about?
on a positive note, shimano shifters seem to just go on and on. I suppose they are out of the muck more than most bits of the bike though.
Old marzocchi's didn't die because they were carrying an extra 150g of oil sloshing around! I would still buy a new heavier-but-open bath fork for the performance and reliability. And I like the noise they make 🙂
Peoples experiences seem to vary quite a bit too, for EG juliamwilsons comment is true of my XTR shifters but the Deores got upgraded as the fell into bits while in their first year...
Fair pont about the MX fork seals, bikes are still pretty tough though, and a new MX bike is way better value than a decent MTB too... shame I am too old tired and broken to race MX.... I love my MTB too much anyhow now.. 🙂
Everyone has woes of premature wear on kit - but nobody really comments if their kit just keeps going. It is always the way with spares etc even in business - people only usually comment when it is adverse - not when it works.
I've run Mini Monos on my bike for 3 years - changed the pads twice in that time and they weren't new when I got them. Never managed to trash a BB - not square taper, not HTII. Never snapped a seat post, only broken wheels when they were so old the spokes started to go (mostly down to my weight).
Kit now is as good if not better than ever - the internet provides a focus for more users to get together and comment on disproportional reports of broken kit. Better protection and more suspension allows people to ride beyond their limits more often, meaning kit takes more abuse than ever - often beyond design specs I'd guess. Also, as the sort of people to buy the newest most technical shiny kit, we see more of the teething troubles than we ever saw before.
Am I the only person that thinks that a my kit seems to last a long time?
Ive had M952 Cranks that have been on 4 bikes for 4 or 5 years including DH that have gone on to new owners that are still using them.
Ive got zocchi 2006 888's that are still running sweet after coming up on 4 years with only one service.
My Fly is 5 years old (rear end is 7) and that still works fine.
My hope hubs are 7 and 8 years old and are still perfect (well actually the threads on one finally started to die the other day)
Ive got a Chris King headset in a frame that i bought in 2003 second hand thats smooth a silk despite the abuse that bike got.
I do think some of the older gear was built more for reliability than weight efficiency however!
P.S. Most of this gear is on DH bike that actually gets ridden (i.e. min two uplifts a month in mud in winter etc...)
But they don't include maintenance guides when you buy stuff. How do I maintain my Raceface X-type BB cups? I have no idea how to maintain my DT Swiss hubs (was OK with Shimano cup and cones)
"Stuff is much better than before. Years ago I remember having to regrease headsets, hubs, bottom brackets, pedals after ever couple of rides"
yeah with all the spanners needed too ) I don't miss all that!
good points re early bombers - like current RS. Some kit works in the UK w/o fuss, some also works well but needs more tlc.
I've broken a couple of Shimano shifters, but in general they are super-reliable. Shimano SPDs are great, as are Straitline flats (albeit they need regular TLC). Hope hubs are great, my Magura Louise FRs still work OK after four years and one bleed, Chris King headsets are ace if you have short forks, the list goes on. The only bike bit I'd class as a weak link is suspension, and it seems that Marzocchi are going back to the ultra-reliable designs of old.
BUZZ you have a point, probably the same mentality as the Shimano do not dismantle note on their HT2, but if your a regular on here you cant have missed the thousands of how to change bearings in HT2 BB threads and wondered, could I do that too?
Have a look before their knackered and pretty sure you can get some fresh grease into them, they were put together and so they must come appart.
ps you do get the odd thread applauding good kit, 520 pedals had one last week for eg.
[i]We could engineer stuff to last longer, but nobody would buy it becuase it weighs 3 tonnes[/i]
I would buy it
Well, I was exaggerating for comic effect slightly when I said 'nobody'.
if it weighed 3 tonnes you wouldn't.
Agree with other on here, I still remember the days of v-brakes and mud. Sintered pads etc. last amazingly well given the conditions they experience. No complaints from me. Stuff just wears out.
[i]I was exaggerating for comic effect slightly when I said 'nobody'[/i] and "3 tonnes".
Can't take anything you say seriously. 🙂
Interestingly I made some handlebars that weighed 3 tonnes and they didn't work too well at all 🙁
Never managed to trash a BB - not square taper, not HTII
HOW? Are you floaty light on the pedals ?
HT11 - dont last as long even with maintenance. Granted I would get about 5-10,000 miles from square taper but not for ever. Better sealed though still tempted to go back.
Interesting point about MX bikes. I was talking to one of my colleagues who rides a lot of moto-x and he was telling me how he has to do an oil change after every day of riding, replace the cylinder bits (cant remember what they were) every 15hours or less, gets through a new rear tyre every few rides etc etc. In comaparison to that I thought that the mtb service intervals for stuff sounded pretty good considering the weight differnence in components. He did say that the engine servicing was required as the engines are so finely tuned and get such a thrashing each time they are used.
That said, my bike maintenance is pretty minimal.
FWIW i'm not one of those who comes back from a shitty ride and just chucks the bike in the garage .Both days this weekend i've spent at least an hour cleaning everything up and making sure it's good to go again.
i still have an isis bb in my hummer 3 years old and i ride that loads.
i think installing manuals are a must for some people 🙂 🙂
I think it all depends on the kit you buy and the maintenance you do. Most of my stuff lasts well - but I buy stuff with a reputation for longevity and I look after it
my only winge would be mech hangers and maybe rear mechs costing so much to replace considering how easy it is to **** them on stuff (SRAM mechs only, shimano are way more durable).
a mech hanger for any of my current bikes (all spesh) is £15, i've been through about 10 in the past two years, thats £150 on ten small bits of metal, quite dear I reckon.
I know they're meant to break easily to save your frame from getting ****ed but i'd like to see the price drop to about a fiver especially for a big company like spesh where the hanger fits quite a few frames.
You do realise your not supposed to ride bikes, just post photos of them on the internet! Of course they don't like getting muddy.
HOW? Are you floaty light on the pedals ?
Given that I weigh 250 lbs and can't pick a good line for dog toffee, I guess I'm just lucky. Oh - I barely maintain, so perhaps the fact I don't faff around with stuff once it is fitted helps things.
Never managed to trash a BB - not square taper, not HTIIHOW? Are you floaty light on the pedals ?
HT11 - dont last as long even with maintenance. Granted I would get about 5-10,000 miles from square taper but not for ever. Better sealed though still tempted to go back.
well, oddly enough, i went through more sq taper BBs, and i'm still on my original HT11 BB on both my current bikes, and i ride them consistently more
bill oddie, you need to get yourself a hanger banger, a little bracket that screws onto the end of your rear QR and acts as a reinforcing device for your mech hanger. Madison and On-One do them.
get yourself a hanger banger, a little bracket that screws onto the end of your rear QR and acts as a reinforcing device for your mech hanger.
I got a banger hanger and it's not all that. 2 bustified drop-outs and a badly deformed drop-out holdy thing. (not good with technical terms)
I'd prefer it if they made the replaceable drop-outs stronger.