My guess is that it’s a combination of geometry and CEN certification which made all mass market steel frames feel dead compared to what they used to be like.
That's it - not just the tests, with MTBs it's long forks that have really made the difference, and short stem, long reach gometries that could feel weird with a whippy tubeset. Gravel bikes can pass current standards w/o being overbuilt and the older trad tube spec or basic OS tube lugged road bike feel isn't so popular now anyway. All the 'stiffer is better' message out there.. tbh as much as I love the ride of an older steel road bike I wouldn't want a frame with that level of flex if I was loading the bike up and it's hard to justify a gravel bike that isn't also a good tourer/bikepacker?
whether gravel frames undergo different CEN tests to MTB frames
The tests are different, it's up to the brand to say which one is most suitable for their gravel bike (it's a bit blurred - a road bike that goes off road, how off road, etc).
Bike weight is relative to rider weight.
A lighter rider needs a lighter bike than a heavy rider for the same power to weight ratio.
I'd agree if you'd have said the stiffness of a bike should be relative to rider power, but within reason (stability) there's no drawbacks to a lighter bike for any rider?
My 3T Exploro's(Size L)coming in at 10.9 KG with 42c(650b) metal wheels and gallons of sealant and a small frame bag (2 pumps and 2 multitools,puncture kit in a tool roll) and er mega heavy flat pedals lights(rears a radar camera so more weight than a boggo light) and bike computer. (measured on a Park tool).
I reckon I could easily get the weight down with my alternative 700 wheelset but I like crashing around.
(Any gainzs would be easily lost by the shed load of water I'd probably want to carry on a hot day.)
I'd also say weight isn't a big deal if the bike still handles and rides nice and does what it needs to do.
I weigh 93kg. I’d like to weigh 85kg.
How much would it cost to lose 5kg from your bike? ££££?
I’d just ride it and enjoy riding. Making comparisons to a number doesn’t tell you how much fun something is.
And I weigh 66kg, I would like to weigh 66kg (it is after all fully in my control)
How much would it cost to lose 5kg from my 6.3kg bike, rather a lot I expect.
I will tell you if riding a lighter bike is more fun for me - Yes it is.
It's heavy for a gravel bike.
It's not heavy for the Touring bike it is.
It's. Matter of perspective. Stop looking at it like it's something it's not.
Angles and tubing are what's killing it.
there’s no drawbacks to a lighter bike for any rider?
lol.......... have you heard the sound a Ti bike makes when it snaps............. ;o)
yeah as everyone has said, your bike is heavy. If you’re looking at buying a new gravel bike that is lighter, just be very careful about your expectations.
My Planet X Tempest, size small with EKAR was just over 10kgs, advert says it should be 9.6kgs.
I have swapped out a few things, wheels are now 1395 gram carbon wheels (still 700cc) and running 42mm panaracer gravel king set up tubeless, seat post, bars and stem are carbon Zipp SL. Saddle is also a lightweight brooks saddle that was something like 75 grams lighter than the stock saddle.Seat post has also been cut down to size as has the steerer.
It is now a smidgen under 9kgs at ready to ride weight (so it does include pedals, two bottle cages and wahoo mount). Hills are still hard and I’m still slow. But I like it! I wouldn’t say the bike is particularly more lively than it was, I just like to have nice finishing kit.
Out of curiosity I just weighed my (Al framed) gravel bike, it was 11kg but that was with a top tube bag (with a waterproof packed in), gas can bag (with tools/spares in) and the mud I couldn't be arsed to clean off last week... so I guess that's 12kg with a full water bottle, but if I cleaned it and removed the bags and junk I'm it could be sub 10kg(?)
I checked My (Al) CX bike came in at 8.75kg and my (carbon) road bike was 8kg (again with spare tube/tools/pump).
12kg does sounds kinda heavy, but then weighing bikes is pretty ridiculous, you're still going to hoist a meat sack on top of it and lug about water, snacks, tools and gadgets so what does the odd kilo or two really matter?
<p style="text-align: left;">I have a stelvio too, I put some cheap 650b MTB wheels (bargain as no one wants qr front wheels anymore so cheap 2nd hand) and wtb 650 x 47c tyres (tubeless) and it handles a little better now, quicker to change direction but still stable. Back end is still a solid lump but the extra volume and lower pressures help a bit.</p>
Did a 4 day ride Dunkerque to Amsterdam on it on road and some gravelly type cycle tracks and it was superb.
Just weighed my gravel bike and it is also 12.4kg (steel, single-speed, 29er MTB ali wheels, fully loaded with all my everyday bits) It definitely doesn't feel sluggish though, quite the opposite. It must be a geometry thing
Geometry and flexy tubing will be hurting more than the weight, which isn't light, but isn't super porky for that sort of thing.
'I tried using a steel tourer frame for a gravel build years ago and remember not really liking it, felt un-necessarily harsh over bumps etc.' From an earlier post .. it surprised me a little, that it would be feeling harsh? Was it a property of the frame per se, or you couldn't get large tyres on it or?
I just weighed the Fargo, 13.5kg with the saddlebag off, 16.5 with it on, ready to ride with lock, jacket, tools, emergency food etc etc, but. I guess without the big steel bag support and the metal frame pump and bottle cages that would lose most of a kilo, but I know it's a brute and always will be.
I also weighed the roadie which I genuinely thought was lighter, but that came in at 9.6kg, ready to ride with pedals, cages, rear LED and Garmin mount. It's an older Ribble Sportive with Sora.
I've been debating with myself whether to get a Free Ranger (or similar) to replace the roadie which will be permanently on the trainer now for non-loaded days out, not for the speed aspect, but for going further and seeing more for the same effort, on a group ride last week it was obvious the gravel and CX bikes were cruising where I was having to give it beans.
not for the speed aspect, but for going further and seeing more for the same effort,
Pretty much my exact thoughts about getting a gravel bike to replace the Swift, I just can't shake the feeling that I could spend a lot of money and not see much benefit.
And here to make you feel good; my genesis vagabond with a 725 sticker on is 18kg. I honestly have no idea where the weight is. Lots of ti parts, wheels are 1kg apiece being dynamo hub and 32 spoke but still. It’s a barge. My fancy pants Rourke 853/921 with whisky carbon fork comes in at 14kg with bag, racks etc. and it’s a completely different type of ride. Change tyres and possibly wheels first then see how you feel.
I have no idea how heavy my Merlin g2p is - but it sports rack and mudguards.
What it does have is night tight and lightish wheels with reasonable weight touring slicks on - and you can feel them accelerate better than the other 700c wheeled bikes in the house which have heavier rims and tyres.
I do think my fitness, weight and (lack of) thought over aero is a much bigger issue than weight of a bike.
And again - 'gravel' means all sorts to all sorts of folk. Speed is not my goal, enjoyment is.
In my experience wheels make the biggest difference to whether a bike feels dead of road or not.
In my experience wheels make the biggest difference to whether a bike feels dead of road or not.
Or more like rim weight and tyre size/weight. Ride a bike with say a 50c tyre that weight 500g and then change tyre to a 200g 25c and it will feel like a different bike. More responsive, feels better to turn, just generally feels faster and more agile.
It is of course not actually that much faster but then I ride for enjoyment and how the bike feels is as important as how fast I am going. I just enjoy riding lighter more sprightly feeling bikes.
I think it’s quite porky - but then you say it’s a tourer frame built up for gravel - so it’s a tourer weight.
My Dolan GXC (also a Carbonda / On zone freeranger effectively) comes in around 8.5k I’d think. Has Hunt’s cheapest alloy wheels / Ultegra di2 / 30c Conti gp5000s / Hope RX4 calipers.
If you’re bothered you could pick up a cheap secondhand On One Freeranger to try. Not fancy fancy, but a load of them came with Sram Force 1 which is decent and you’d get a pretty lightweight bike that’ll take either 650b or 700c tyres in a big size (for gravel).
Both our steel gravel bikes (Niner and Fairlight) come in at about 10.3 kg.
Okay, so, thread update.
I went out on it yesterday and, I have to say, I enjoyed it, to be honest I think I might have built the weight thing up in my head to be more than it is.
Saying that, I've just weighed the wheels, tyres/tubes/cassette off, rotors still attached. They've come in at a combined weight of 2.5kg, so, pretty porksome.
However, having read smokey_joe's comment above, I've spotted a decent pair of 650b wheels on eBay that will be at least 600g lighter, and the fella is willing to do a deal, so I'm about to snap them up.
Anyone want to recommend (or sell) a pair of zippy 650 45c gravel tyres?
@IHN I’ve a pair of Halo CXG if any use to you? £35/pair posted. Used for one ride.
https://flic.kr/p/2oAvxTt
