I've got a Holdsworth Stelvio steel tourer that I bought about five/six years ago for commuting and occasional touring duties, but which I now use with 36c tyres for towpath/farm track/old railway line gravelly type stuff.
It's never been massively sprightly - it's an unfancy steel frame and forks, the wheels are actually MTB 29r ones - but on road it's a comfortable, trundly ride. Off road however it just feels pretty dead. I'm wondering how much of that is to do with the weight.
I weighed it yesterday and it comes in at 12.4kg. Looking at the quoted weights of new bikes with non fancy build specs (e.g Camino), they seem to come in at about a kilo lighter.
Is it that kilo that's killing the ride?
It's not only heavy, I'd say it's VERY heavy.
Mine are 7.6kg, 8.1kg and 8.3kg and 8.5kg on the UPPER, Litespeed, Tempest and Carbonda with racks and guards, respectively.
I'll weigh my steel gravel bike in a bit.
Are the wheels heavy though?
It's steel so you are looking at 1-2kg penalty over alloy or carbon respectively. I wouldn't worry about it too much as you make the most of the weight. Let's say the people that are the fastest in my ride group, aren't the fastest due to weight - they just ride more.
My steel road bikes are 9kg (30 years old high end), and the CX bike is alloy and comes in about 10kg - the reviews said it was heavy, although it's light enough for me. My two MTB's are much heavier.
Yes, 12.4kg is heavy for a gravel bike. Whether that matters or not is up to you, it does to me. The bike I ride gravel on is 6.3kg.
Mine are 7.6kg, 8.1kg and 8.3kg and 8.5kg on the UPPER, Litespeed, Tempest and Carbonda with racks and guards, respectively.
They do sound at the fancy end of things though.
Are the wheels heavy though?
I don't know the weights, but they're pretty basic so I'd imagine so
My steel gravel bike with carbon fork (size large) comes in at 10.3kg with pedals
Weighed with what I’ve used for suitcases etc and it is pretty spot on
It's not just the weight. I was using a 11.5kg Van Nicholas Amazon tourer as my gravel bike and recently bought a 9.3kg Cannondale Topstone. It helps that it's 2kg lighter but geometry and riding position help to make it feel much more alive/sprightly/whatever. It is noticeably faster in rolling terrain too, carrying speed through dips and well up any following rises.
XL Freeranger (carbon) running 50c 700 tyres, weighs 9kg with cages & pedals etc on my Park scales.
Is it that kilo that’s killing the ride?
No, it's the geometry. Sure it's heavy, but the handling is dictated by the geometry not the weight. With a 71.5 degree head angle, it's never going to feel like a race bike https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/holdsworth-stelvio-2017/ . The heavy wheels and tyres will not help either, but stately is no bad thing with 20 kilos of luggage.
10.7kg
Ragley Trig with carbon fork, 700c wheels, 1x11 GRX 600 & heavy pedals
Felt sluggish on the heavier stock 650b wheels & tyres, feels great now though.
My Swift (my only bike) is about 13kg but it's essentially a flat bar gravel bike for me. I guess I'm over biked (and I have a damaged heart too) so getting it up hills (onto the Mendips) can be an slow process, but with the right gearing I can get it anywhere I want to go (eventually).
I ride alone, so I'm not trying to keep up with anyone and I'm well used to being overtaken by roadies and folk on e-bikes.
I did promise myself a 'proper', light gravel bike, following my heart attacks, but never got around to it. Perhaps it's because I don't know what I'm missing, but I'm perfectly happy on my tractor of a bike and I could spend a lot of money I don't have on a bike that would just get me around the some rides a few minutes faster.
I guess your bike is at the weighty end of the spectrum but not hugely so for a steel framed/forked bike (when I looked the Genesis Vagabond gravel bike was the same weight as my Swift).
If it's spoiling your rides or you can't keep up with your mates (I don't have any) perhaps look at something new or at lightening up what you have, but if you're happy riding it, just get on with it I would.
-- Edit --
Kona Rove - road.cc/content/review/241027-kona-rove-dl
I also did a quick search on another version of the Rove (in the £1600 range) and come up with 11.55kg. It's lighter but whether significantly enough to notice I couldn't say.
It is heavy.
The dead feeling off road will be a combo of the handling, rake, head angle and trail is what is doing that. It's designed to be stable on road, makes for, errrrr, interestingly dull off road.
It's also linked to the frame being basic steel, all i can find is 4130, no mention of butting at all. So being generous, it might have a couple of single butted tubes. That won't help.
most people can afford to lose a stone or 2 in bodyweight.
just get out and ride.
I's say that's pretty lardy. My XL Tempest is 10.3 kg. That's 45 tyres on Hunt 4 season 700c rims.
most people can afford to lose a stone or 2 in bodyweight.
You would hope that would be less so on a cycling forum though wouldn't you?
Losing a KG of weight from my body does not make my bike handle like a lighter bike...
My Kinesis Tripster alloy with carbon forks and 1*11 Force is 11.3kg.
12.4Kg is pretty much the same as my full suss Giant Anthem...! My gravel bike is around 8.5Kg. Both do have carbon wheels though. I'm sure you could put the Holdsworth on a bit of a diet, a light bike does feel nice to ride (although I don't think the actual difference in speed is that great)
You would hope that would be less so on a cycling forum though wouldn’t you?
Losing a KG of weight from my body does not make my bike handle like a lighter bike…
but losing 5kg in bodyweight does make cycling easier.
It's ridiculously heavy for a gravel bike. My steel gravel bike (a Sour Purple Haze), which I built with half an eye on weight, is 9.8kg with racks and guards. And even that I'm a bit disappointed with.
Looking at the dropouts, the Stelvio comes from the same factory as a Viking Cross Master which I've had a shot on. That, despite being Reynolds 725, is completely unbutted and seriously heavy, with a dead ride because of its heavy wheels and lardy, unrefined frame.
There's not much you'll be able to do about it with the bike you've got.
It is relatively heavy for sure, It weighs roughly the same as the steel-framed rat bike I built up from random bits, which is/was horribly sluggish on climbs and slow to accelerate even with fast-ish, large-ish road tyres fitted. Steel forks tend to be quite weighty too and unforgiving.
Maybe try some lighter, faster tyres if you want a bit more zip, but don't expect too much would be my take. I swapped from a nice riding, but weighty Soma steel-framed cross bike to a significantly lighter On One carbon thing a few years back, actually a lot of years back, and the On One felt like a rocket ship in comparison. Same wheels and tyres etc, but a much lighter frame/fork.
Interesting stuff, cheers all
I’m sure you could put the Holdsworth on a bit of a diet
Yeah, maybe, but I'm not sure if would be worth the cost. The main areas I could obviously improve are the wheels and the forks. Wheels wise, it's all QR and non boost, so I could keep and eye on eBay for someone getting rid of some old, now basically obsolete, but 'nice' 29er wheels. I could also stick some carbon forks on but, frankly, they'd look gash (despite its shortcomings, it's a lovely looking bike)
Maybe try some lighter, faster tyres if you want a bit more zip
Hah, the tyres are the best bit on it, Vittoria Hypers, they're brilliant.
Do you want a more lively bike?
If so, I'd say to look out for a nice used Boardman Adv 8.9.
Great bike. Light, fast and quite comfy with good handling. Should get a decent one for £500 or less.
You would hope that would be less so on a cycling forum though wouldn’t you?
Wait, what? This is a cycling forum? I'm in the wrong place...
Yikes, I'm getting a bit paranoid about my 10kg 'bloater' of a gravel bike in the garage. I'm still suspicious that the frame builder either stiffed me on the tubing (was supposed to be 853) or gave me plain gauge throughout since I didn't specifically say I wanted butted tubes (schoolboy error perhaps but you'd kind of hope that it was a given...).
853 frame with carbon forks and finishing kit (except boggo standard aluminium stem because I wanted to experiment with different sizes) and 2x GRX with an 11-34 Ultegra cassette. Otherwise all good kit and since it's rim brakes that should represent a good 200-300g saving off equivalent disc build. Would be very interested to see how people are getting down to 7.6kg gravel builds (Kerley doesn't count since it's probably a brakeless fixie with 25mm tyres! 😂).
But for the OP, I notice that my 29er hardtail with Mezcal tyres doesn't feel significantly slower and certainly no less lively to ride, even though it's probably closer to 12kg, so I wouldn't focus on the weight of the bike, I'd be more inclined to agree with the geometry comments or maybe even the tube types, I tried using a steel tourer frame for a gravel build years ago and remember not really liking it, felt un-necessarily harsh over bumps etc.
Well, I ride 'gravel' on a rigid MTB which weighs about 12kg ish. Whilst it has steep angles and a racy feel compared to modern bikes, it is an MTB so it has MTB gears, flat bars and a dropper. It doesn't feel slow and off-road it's great. But then it's doing rough rocky trails not smooth gravel. It also has 2.3" MTB tyres.
36c sounds small for tyres but I don't know what your terrain is like. Small tyres and a heavy bike would probably be worse than big tyres and heavy bike. I can go a lot faster on rough stuff because I have big tyres, which then makes it feel lively.
Yikes, I’m getting a bit paranoid about my 10kg ‘bloater’ of a gravel bike in the garage. I’m still suspicious that the frame builder either stiffed me on the tubing (was supposed to be 853)
Nah, don't worry. See my bike weight above. Double-butted steel frame, which will barely be heavier than one with a bit of 853 in. Mid-rangey components. Maybe I could knock a kilo off with carbon wheels, bar and seatpost - but I have no need or desire to.
Are you happy with how yours rides?
Not entirely accurate as I measured it on my bathroom scales which are accurate to....who knows?! 2 doughnuts and a large glass of ale?
Anyway - assuming it might be inaccurate, but consistent - I stood on the scales, got my weight, then weighed myself again holding the bike - my Sonder Camino appears to weigh 9.7kg with saddle bag (multi-tool, tube, patch kit, tyre levers), 2 bottle cages & a Wahoo mount.
That's a GRX1x build with the Alpha wheel upgrade, tubeless tyres (45s, I think) and a different saddle.
That is pretty heavy, but I doubt the weight is the main thing making it feel dead, especially if you don't mind it on the road. From the pics I just googled, it looks like you have very long chainstays for example, which prob doesn't help
My gravel bike is likely the heaviest on here, as it's a steel frame and fork and I just added a Rohloff (so +800-900g, but it didn't feel any slower after to me). I haven't weighed it, but I'm guessing about 11.5kg, which is the same as a stock Shand Stoater. But I do have quite snappy geometry so I find the ride feel to be nice, and it only feels sluggish when I go to larger non-slick gravel tyres.
https://road.cc/content/review/133605-shand-stoater-road-bike
36c sounds small for tyres but I don’t know what your terrain is like.
It's as big as I can get in. Size wise they're not too bad to be honest, but a bit more would be nice at times
medium nukeproof digger, with suspension fork and dropper.. 11.2kg so yer it's heavy, does it make any real world difference?
Is it that kilo that’s killing the ride?
No, it won't be that.
Heavy wheels (or heavy-duty tyres mainly), a stable geometry and a certain fit etc will combine to feel less lively overall but +/- 1kg won't make the difference. Take a Cervelo Aspero and add a full 1l bottle - it'll still feel like a 'fast' gravel bike.
I’m still suspicious that the frame builder either stiffed me on the tubing (was supposed to be 853) or gave me plain gauge throughout since I didn’t specifically say I wanted butted tubes (schoolboy error perhaps but you’d kind of hope that it was a given…).
Doubt it.. not if it's a Rourke with an 853 decal on. Do Reynolds even make PG steel main frame tubes? Maybe the odd one. Ping the tubes with a fingernail along the length and you'll be able to hear where the butt transitions are.
Looking at the dropouts, the Stelvio comes from the same factory as a Viking Cross Master which I’ve had a shot on. That, despite being Reynolds 725, is completely unbutted and seriously heavy, with a dead ride because of its heavy wheels and lardy, unrefined frame.
That's just a stock dropout from a frame fitting supplier in Taiwan, there's half a dozen Taiwanese frame factories I can think of using parts from them, and a load more factories in China or SE Asia.
725 in Asia is made to Reynolds spec (ie drawn to the same dims as the UK Reynolds tube list) and as far as I'm aware there isn't a plain gauge 725 frame tube available, aside from head tube and stays. I doubt they'd sign off a 725 PG main frame tubeset for OE use, plus there's just no point. You'd be spending a fair bit on heat-treated tubes and the Reynolds badge and then saving less than that by speccing PG over DB.
It is heavy. My tourer is 15kg. It doesn't matter though
Doubt it.. not if it’s a Rourke with an 853 decal on. Do Reynolds even make PG steel main frame tubes?
No sticker funnily enough which I put down as an oversight.
I had to get the seat tube reamed as I thought it was undersized (turned out to be an over-sized Ti seatpost!). Ended up going to Ben @ Kinetics who commented whilst he was doing it that he thought the seat-tube was plain gauge.
I don't let it bother me, I didn't buy steel for the weight savings and it rides great, was just interested.
My Genesis CDF 725 is 12kg with cages and nowt else, it’s a large and has 42mm tyres.
It’s porky, but rides lovely, I’m massively porky so it’s built to withstand my lack of finesse and talent.
Loaded up with seat pack, small bar bag, pump, lights and Garmin it’s knocking on the door of 14.5kg. It’s not the bike that’s the problem, it’s the useless lump sat on it.
My Sequoia is 12kg stock, and whilst it now has lighter wheels and gears, it has frame bags permanently fitted, so they’ll negate any gains.
Feels fine.
Sounds like a good starter gravel bike for trundles off the tarmac.
I used my Tourer for years in similarfashion, and did the first Dirty Riever 200 on it, and then decided to get a bike with disc brakes!
Speed maybe not an issue for you, sounds like if you have tow paths the area maybe reasonably flat where you live as well.
My Tourer had racks and mudguards on it so stripped them off to shed a bit of kg and started using bike backing bags.
But yes your bike is not particularly light.
I weigh 93kg. I'd like to weigh 85kg.
How much would it cost to lose 5kg from your bike? ££££?
I'd just ride it and enjoy riding. Making comparisons to a number doesn't tell you how much fun something is.
You could spend the ££££ on a smashing holiday to ride said bike somewhere exciting for a week. That would also take some kg off the rider/ bike system 😉
A light bike is a light bike regardless of how much the rider weighs. Yes, losing body weight can help, especially on the climbs, but it still doesn't make your bike handle like a lighter one.
It sounds like it is a bit on the heavy side but some of the quoted weights on here sound far too low to make a comfortable off road bike
Bike weight is relative to rider weight.
A lighter rider needs a lighter bike than a heavy rider for the same power to weight ratio.
My gravel bike weighs 13kg ( it's based on a 26" HT still has a suspension fork, a set of Shimano 700c RX830 CX wheels) , its not the weight that is the problem with your, mine feels plenty lively. The only time it doesn't is on the road with slicks when the long wheelbase and slack angles make it too stable at speed.
My guess is that it's a combination of geometry and CEN certification which made all mass market steel frames feel dead compared to what they used to be like.
My guess is that it’s a combination of geometry and CEN certification which made all mass market steel frames feel dead compared to what they used to be like.
My mass-market steel gravel bike has something like the classic steel feel I remember from BITD.
Certainly more so than the last steel hardtail I had.
I expect @jameso can tell us whether gravel frames undergo different CEN tests to MTB frames.