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fine for me.
or was that just a cunning ploy to get everyone to visit the thing?
I'm in
Yep - compulsory rider training voted for.
They did mean a skillz course didn't they?
Mandatory training for drivers is the issue, not the cyclists! The percentage of fatal accidents involving a cyclist and no other vehicles is rather small!
njee20 - Member
Mandatory training for drivers is the issue, not the cyclists! The percentage of fatal accidents involving a cyclist and no other vehicles is rather small!
I see more bad cycling on a day-to-day basis than bad driving.
"compulsory rider training "
Not really sure what this option was trying to suggest.
Was it trying to suggest everyone who cycles including kids needs to pass a test !!
Or was it trying to say drivers need to experience cycling as well.
I put other and wrote in cycling section needs to be added to driving test.
I see more bad cycling on a day-to-day basis than bad driving.
I don't, but even so, bad cycling is irritating, bad driving kills people.
njee20 - Member
Mandatory training for drivers is the issue, not the cyclists! The percentage of fatal accidents involving a cyclist and no other vehicles is rather small!I see more bad cycling on a day-to-day basis than bad driving.
True but I see more bad walking than driving and cycling. Them pedestrians really need to take a test before they use the pavement, they could hmm bump into someone or maybe stub their toe.
Bet you don't. You just don't "see" the bad driving because it is commonplace.I see more bad cycling on a day-to-day basis than bad driving.
Cars driving way too close too each other - almost more cars doing that than not doing it. Also driving over the speed limit, or up to the speed limit even if conditions aren't suitable.
Thought the last question on Bicycle Licences betrayed the IAM agenda the most…
Looking over the results thus far though it looks like most of the responses have been from Cyclists…
Buggerypoo I still can't get onto it!
The link isn't obvious - click the name of the poll?
it's fascinating stuff DezB!
glenp - Member
> I see more bad cycling on a day-to-day basis than bad driving.Bet you don't. You just don't "see" the bad driving because it is commonplace.
Cars driving way too close too each other - almost more cars doing that than not doing it. Also driving over the speed limit, or up to the speed limit even if conditions aren't suitable.
Bet I do. Cyclists running through red lights, filtering through lanes when inappropriate, cycling at night with no lights, cycling on pavements, overtaking without so much as a backward glance or a signal, cycling too close to parked cars etc. etc. The standard of cycling in this country is, quite frankly, appalling.
Whilst our driving is exemplary?
I see more bad driving simply because I see about 100 times more cars than cyclists! I'm gonna come back to my safety point too (which is the issue here after all), that bad cycling very rarely kills people, I did see the stats last week, whilst bad driving frequently kills people.
Done.
Have the questions been set by the Daily Mail?
[url= http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/suppletablesfactsheets/pedalcyclist2008.pdf ]Here[/url].
0 fatilities from cycling accidents involving no other persons. 8 fatalities in collisions with pedestrians (don't know if it's the rider or the ped), 52 fatalities with a car.
Even slight injuries... 280 involving no other vehicles, 11,308 involving cars.
Those cyclists, they sure are dangerous, we need to train them better!
Seen quite a few "cyclist" riding up one way streets the wrong way around us and then across a busy T-junction - thus to driver we are "all a nuisence. I do however think that driver education would be a good use of money to reduce cyclist accidents myself 🙂
BTW how many accident are unrecorded!
How many accidents occur when driving that are not recorded? Are all insurance claims recorded into this thype of data. Don't forget that people in cars may not be injured in a collision but a collision with a car and a cycle is likely to result in a claim/injury?
I'm sure if car drivers where forced to cycle through traffic once a year, to refresh their driving licence, they might show a bit more consideration for cyclists.
njee20 - all that proves is that if you ride like a complete plonker with no other traffic on the road you'll get away with it most of the time. If you mix in 2 ton lumps of steel moving at 30mph you might not be so lucky.
I'm not condoning bad driving but drivers have a lot more to lose (finiancially) by ignoring the rules of the road than cyclists (who just lose their lives but assume it won't ever be them who's unlucky).
Interssting facts and stats here (page 7 etc.)
Did't say bad cycling didn't exist druidh, just that there is tons more bad driving. For every bike you see on the road you see what? 100 cars? 200? Whatever the figure you can bet that a very big numer of them would struggle to stop if the car in front slammed on the brakes. Or at least are driving so close they can't observe the road ahead for themselves and are just reacting off the driving of the person in front. That's a hell of a lot of bad driving, and that's before we even think about speeding. And risky overtaking. And poor observation. All of which, as njee20 says, is life-threatening. People die on our roads every day, and none of them because of cyclists.
I also ticked “Other” and suggested Cycle safety training for everyone, Drivers AND cyclists, as well as compulsory helmet use…
Don’t see how you can increase the level of training/education for one group of road users and not the other… Compulsory helmet use seems like a fair enough idea but it’s more a mitigating measure where as training is prevention prior to RTAs, that’s my theory anyhow…
glenp - Member
People die on our roads every day, and none of them because of cyclists.
That's quite a leap to make. How many cyclists are killed by cars due to their own actions?
At most 115 in a year. And it's likely to be far less than that, say 25% down to bad cycling, so that's 29.
How many car drivers die in a year... according to [url= http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/suppletablesfactsheets/fatalities2008.pdf ]this[/url] it's 1257, how many of those died because of bad cyclists?
And you're most likely to die in an RTA if you live in Scotland!
surely all these stas need to be presented 'per million miles covered' or something?
yes, there may be more car drivers killed but there may be more car drivers drivign more miles?
Edit: note to self read link first - says you are 10 times more likely to die riding a bike than drivign a car (for the same distance).
Very few - there have been several studies published (one quite recently I believe) and drivers are implicated in over 70% of all accidents with cyclists.
Any cyclist who votes for mandatory training or licensing is an idiot.
surely all these stas need to be presented 'per million miles covered' or something?
But then they don't support my argument quite as well!
Cyclists: 32 fatalities/billion km
Cars: 2.2/billion km
But then how it's skewed by speed surely.
"But then they don't support my argument quite as well!"
oh, sorry, happy to revert to the previous method of calculation then 😉
as well as compulsory helmet use…
Really? I disagree. We should have a debate about that.
druidh - Member
Bet I do.
I'll take that bet. One small Iron Horse Sunday Team.
On my 13-mile commute I may see 30 or 40 incidents of bad cycling but could give a running commentary on the bad driving - holding both groups to the same standards of roadcraft.
I think the issue here isn't Cyclist v Car drivers v Pedestrians it's about trying to be 'seen' deeling with a problem. It's easier to try and push around with say 1-million cyclists than 30-million car drivers.
What happens when public money is wasted on t&t'ing cyclists and there's no reduction in accidents or improvement in safety?
But then how it's skewed by speed surely.
Also significantly skewed by cars doing lots of miles on motorways which are far safer than other roads.
Really? I disagree. We should have a debate about that.
OK...
[i]far safer than other roads. [/i]
due to lack of bicycles competign for space, perhaps?
aracer - Member"as well as compulsory helmet use… "
Really? I disagree. We should have a debate about that.
On this thread? or on another? 😆
Druidh - you simply are not noticing the bad driving as it is "normal". As said above - lack of space between cars, on the phone, bad parking, cutting corners, running red lights, poor lane discipline, steamed up windows, passing too close to bikes, lack of indicators and observation etc etc.
I agree with you about some of the rubbish cyclsts tho - mainly around the university areas 🙂
Found my link:
See Table 7.4, page 8 - drivers to blame in 79% of fatal and serious injury accidents with cyclists.
I wasn't even going to bite on the compulsory helmet point!
Personally I actually even see more drivers jump red lights than cylists - had one the other day sail straight through the bit of road I was about to use when I had a right turn phase (they were going straight and were on red). I had to stop and wait for them.
What a dull poll! (accessed it on another PC). The pdf doc was far more interesting.
far safer than other roads.due to lack of bicycles competign for space, perhaps?
Given the number of drivers who manage to kill themselves or others on non-motorways without any cyclist interaction, that would seem unlikely to be a major factor.
TandemJeremy - Member
Druidh - you simply are not noticing the bad driving as it is "normal". As said above - lack of space between cars, on the phone, bad parking, cutting corners, running red lights, poor lane discipline, steamed up windows, passing too close to bikes, lack of indicators and observation etc etc.
Great - that's at least 3 folk on this thread who must be following me when I cycle to and from work every day. Tell me what you're riding so I know who too look for on Monday. I've been driving or 30 years - I think I can recognise bad driving when I see it.
I dont see why your all arguing with DruidH there is lots of bad cycling around.
I would imagine that per hour traveled there is far far more bad cycling than driving however as people have pointed out there are ALOT less fatal accidents from cycling. Basically because cyclists cant go as fast as cars ie cycling is safer so to me its seems less important that there is bad cycling than driving.
Hence why we have a driving test but not a cycling test.
However in some incidences bad cycling can cause an accident involving a car this is bad.
The only thing I'd question is riding on the pavement always bad cycling ?
On dual carriage ways in towns (not inner city ie about reading size) often cycling on the pavement is safer as they are completely empty. So personally in some instances I will do this and maintain it is good cycling.
I've been driving or 30 years - I think I can recognise bad driving when I see it.
Thus speaks the voice of experience 😉