Tyres are Panaracer Fire XC Pro UST on the rear and IRC Serac tubeless on the front (no UST logo, so assuming this isn't a specific UST tyre? It does say tubeless though). Rims are Mavic UST jobbies (Crossmax SL)
Have tried my track pump, but no joy... do I need to go buy a CO2 inflater? Also, will I get away without sealant for now? Valves have removable cores, so can add it in later on...
Any tips for getting the track pump to do the job? Or is it a lost cause?
cheers 🙂
One way (it's a bit of a faff) is to stick an inner tube inside it, inflate, then remove the inner tube and try again. This seems to stretch the tyre a bit and makes it sit better.
Otherwise try getting an adapter and taking the wheel down to the local petrol station, the air pumps are easier to use.
Oh, and you don't need sealant, but if you ride anywhere with thorns etc. it'd be a good idea.
some sealant in there will help it seal (funnily enough) also put some fairy liquid in an old muck off bottle or similar with a little water and spray the bubbles around the rim, it also helps if someone else can hold the tyre in place enabling you to pump like a b astard.
second what mogrim suggested, once a ust tyre has its inflated shape its relatively easy to inflate with any decent track pump. Stick tubes in for a few days then try without.
mogrim - MemberOh, and you don't need sealant, but if you ride anywhere with thorns etc. it'd be a good idea.
That's what I thought. But, I just got an email from Schwalbe about my Nobby Nic that has a porous patch in the sidewall (second one, first one returned) that suggest you do need sealant:
[i]Sometimes in lightweight XC models, a UST
tire can have some thinner spots in the sidewall which might cause these
small leaks you've experienced. For a UST setup, it is always
recommended to use a sealant in the tire to prevent and seal punctures
in the event of it happening. A very small amount would seal the
sidewall "leaks" and the tire will be airtight, along with providing
additional protection. This would be a simple solution to increase the
puncture resistance and reliability of the tire.[/i]
It sounds more like a manufacturing issue to me as it only affects a small area of the sidewall. Exactly the same as the one I had replaced.
My Maxxis High Roller USTs, however, inflate and ride without any sealant and hold pressure for weeks, as you'd expect.
That's the last time I try a Schwalbe tyre.
If anyone wants it it's brand new and unridden. £25 posted.
Soak tyre bead and rim with [u]very[/u] soapy mix of fairy liquid and water. Attach tyre, pump. Voilà
I shall bookmark this thread and repost it every time someone says "Tubeless is only ever a faff if you're not using UST tyres and rims" 🙂
Track pump can work but I'm glad not to depend on it myself. Other things that help, Mogrim's method is spot on- it half-seats the tyre so makes the other half easier. It's also possible with some tyres to pull them onto the bead, I've done this a couple of times with really unhappy tyres, again it just reduces the amount you have to get to seat. It's a fiddle though. Last one is well known so you've probably already done it, but inflating the tyre with a tube first gets it into the right shape, and can definately help- leave it overnight.
I've never actually used the soapy bubbles approach but it seems to work. Never needed it.
Try with the valve taken out once the tyre is seated on both beads (you may need 50+PSI) deflate, replace valve and re-inflate. Yes plenty of watery washing up liquid helps too.
so one way to inflate tubeless you put a tube in and pump it up, then deflate it and take it out again?
I've heard it all now. 🙂
Found that greasing my track pump so that it work efficently & dribbling sealant round the outside of the bead between it and the rim helped get my last tricky tubeless tyre fitted. Though still contemplating buying a compressor to help..
just buy a compressor
can't imagine not having one these days
On Saturday I blew up 50 balloons for my daughter's birthday party.... I put the balloons on the nozzle and she pulled the trigger. Great fun.
grrrrr... still no joy, despite pumping like a mad man on my track pump... never had such an issue with UST tyres/UST rims, 'tis annoying 😡 Broke my CO2 pump a while back, never got around to replacing it, guess this gives me an excuse eh? 😆
http://www.notubes.com/movieinstall.php
This may help - or there are other vids on the site perhaps......
"so one way to inflate tubeless you put a tube in and pump it up, then deflate it and take it out again?"
Yes. Is that funny?
I think so - with traditional tubes you'd do 1/3 of the work that that method is suggesting.
Tubeless is one of these things that causes as many problems as it solves IMO. I can appreciate the benefits, but I think its a faff.
And yes I have tried it 🙂
Only issues I've ever had are with lightweight tyres, put a bit of sealant in before pumping and it usually works a treat.
I sometimes have to lightly press the tyre over the valve when pumping to give it a kick start?
Got new bike recently with normal rims - tubes are much more of a faff than tubeless....
Sealant and fairy liquid in tyre, inflate tyre with co2 inflator. Job done with no faffing about, spent about a week messing with track pumps and other stuff, used this method and was up and running in about 5 mins on non tubeless tyres. Trust me its the way to go
davidrussell - Member
"I think so - with traditional tubes you'd do 1/3 of the work that that method is suggesting."
Yes you would. Which is a trivial saving of effort for a big benefit.
I think so - with traditional tubes you'd do 1/3 of the work that that method is suggesting.Tubeless is one of these things that causes as many problems as it solves IMO. I can appreciate the benefits, but I think its a faff.
It's definitely a faff to get the tyres to seat the first time, but the benefits massively outweigh this initial investment.
What benefits? If I rode where there were hawthorn hedges then I can see the puncture resistance being useful. Other than that? No weight saving and the dubious benefits of being able to run really low pressures which I don't want to do.
Other than that?
Er.. More grip?
Nah, can't see why you would want that...
Why more grip tho? - I know people claim this but I can see no reason why at the same pressures that tubeless would give more grip???
More grip because the tyre casing is more supple. It takes the same pressure to deform the tyre by a given amount, but less energy, so it conforms better over rough ground.
oh, and to help the OP, I always put the sealant in first and hang the wheel up while inflating.. That way the flat bit at the bottom of the tyre is less likely to be where the air comes out.
Huzzah... Got the UST tyre up... no amount of effort is getting the 'tubeless' front up though, guess it needs sealant and a blast of compressed air? man, I'm knackered, it's hard work pumping a track pump like crazy!
Cheers bike whisperer I can't see it making that much difference but that at least is logical.
Can't imagine what you're referring to there TJ 🙄
Having used the same tyres on a bike both with and without tubes I can tell you it does. It's most noticeable when you really lean the bike over; much less skittery.
What I was trying to say was -I have never seen an adequate explanation for the "increased grip" of a tubeless. Your explanation makes sense but I am still sceptical it really makes a significant difference at the same pressures.
I can't feel any difference at all in grip myself, using hte exact same tyres and pressures. I do get a weight reduction- though lots of people don't, and just fool themselves into thinking they do either by making inappropriate comparisons ("My ghetto tubeless is lighter than a downhill inner tube!") or by just not checking at all, and presuming that because Teh Internetz tells them it's lighter, then it's lighter.
Still I think it's worth it, punctures even though rare for me were enough to be annoying, they always struck at some inconvenient or troublesome time, halfway down a descent I'd toiled up or right in the middle of a rainstorm or when running late.
As mentioned above, pop a stube in and inflate until the tyre seats. Let the air out and remove the tube from one side leaving the other side still seated. Starting opposite the valve you can reseat the tyre bead on the side you took the tube out of around a third of the way round to the valve in both directions. Carefully get the rest of the tyre onto the rim. Take the valve out and inflate your fully seated on one side and 1/3rd seated on the other tyre with a track pump. Press down on the tyre over the valve can also help as well as a little sealant or soapy water wiped along the inside of the rim where the tyre still needs seating.
I tried keeping the exact same pressures when doing a ghetto job on my SS.. just to satisfy my curiosity. They were knackered old tyres and it definitely bought an "edge" back to them. It could have been a placebo effect, but it felt like an improvement..
I dropped the pressure after that regardless, as that's where most of the extra grip comes from.
What benefits? If I rode where there were hawthorn hedges then I can see the puncture resistance being useful. Other than that? No weight saving and the dubious benefits of being able to run really low pressures which I don't want to do
Reviving a near-dead thread, but: the main advantage for me is avoiding pinch flats, I'm sure if I were a more graceful rider that wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not - and it was.