TMD | Rimpact - basic explanation
Rimpact's Tuned Mass Damper: Are TMDs Really Making Your Bike Faster? - YouTube - long explanation/sales pitch
Like many of these tech developments, if they're really good then presumably everyone will use them and then nobody will have an advantage.
To an extent yeah, but they're quite short supply at the moment and even once you do get them, they're not just a fit it and run it (so i believe) it's quite an effect on suspension settings to get the best out of them. Racers are notoriously bad at getting tech on their bikes as we know, people like what they like and run what they know.
That's interesting... i hadn't really thought about the impact on suspension settings and didn't listen too closely to the podcast.
Well it's half a KG pretty much stuffed into the headtube for a start. I know chatting with Rich at RSR roughly how much of a change that is likely to equate to, but he's got a bucket load of data from the Scott team and testing/setting up this year already, so i think i could guesstimate a few bits.
However even though TFTuned set up our shock with new valving/tuning, we've not had the Vivid setup at all since buying it, so i'm massively curious as to how this weekend goes in terms of setup for the end as well. It's going to be very interesting to see for me anyway. But i do like bike nerd type stuff and even though it's mystical, it's very interesting to see if the riders can notice changes etc. We've also got a mate getting his bike setup at the same time, so the boy will have someone to ride with as well.
Just picked up a few points dipping into that podcast…one thing struck me is that he says that on suspension hits, the force travels up the fork leg and some is absorbed by the mass, which absorbs it in the springs, so it doesn’t transmit to the headtube/rider. What he doesn’t say is what then happens to the energy as energy stored in that spring. Well, energy cannot be lost, only converted, so it must be then transferred back into the bike when the spring recoils so I can see instances of this upsetting stability. It would be like having a massive heavy jelly mounted to your stem cap. But he does concede it is not “tuned”, which I suspect WC racers have a bit more time and facility to do. This is just a random weight on a spring. Very curious about this on a moving bicycle.
Let us know how you get on with the MD, but I suppose there are other changing variables by the sounds of it, so bracketing might be tricky.
Well the plan is to perform 2 runs on what we have now. That'll be the start of the day for sure, then we'll move onto 2 runs with the TMD installed, then start configuring it fully. Obviously all the runs will have data (as the bike is off currently getting the electronics fitted) so in terms of bracketing, yeah it should kinda work OK.
THere's a pile of riders using TMDs now in the paddock at world and juniors national level, although different ones are being used by some. However all of them are raving about the performance, more so than i think a placebo effect could ever show.
The interesting one for me is fatigue, although the boy doesn't massively suffer from this, at FW for example it's pretty damn intense and lap after lap of 5 mins of crazy can take it's toll.
That brings on another slightly interesting one as he's just got another sponsor this week thanks to Katy of a new personal trainer, although it seems i get shouted at if i post things about sponsors lol, so i'll not go much more into it in depth. But he's got a 2 hour session with him next week and then straight to FoD for coaching and riding. But that'll also be quite interesting as to what a proper coach in strength and MTB fitness can bring to the game.
IMO - I think a fitness and conditioning coach will make the biggest difference to him. Great move for him.
Is it Ade?
IMO - I think a fitness and conditioning coach will make the biggest difference to him. Great move for him.
Yeah 100% agree. It's taken a while but that's on the boy as he doesn't like being pushed into doing or going somewhere, like most kids I guess. But he's now got his own weights/gym here in garage and is using it lots. So a decent plans and structure can only help him
Just checked in on this thread, been a little while.
Good to see the hard work starting to pay off !
As to Atherton bikes. I’ve seen quite a few 2nd hand for sale recently. If their sizing is so unique (not that convinced it is) then could make a 2nd hand bike harder to shift ?
As to physical strength and conditioning. It’s always surprised me how unprofessional DH mountain biking is when it comes to fitness.
It will definitely improve his performance, but I’m yet to see a young lad who doesn’t feel better for having a ‘ripped’ physique. My lad plays football and aged 15 they are in the gym 3 times per week doing strength & conditioning. The coach is absolutely clear that’s not ever pushing big heavy weights. Also it will help massively with injury prevention/ rehab
I couldn’t believe one of Bernard Kerrs more recent vids where he said he had been working with a physical coach for the last 4 months and had never been so fit / strong. 🤷♂️
I'd be curious as to where they're for sale please. I only view Pinkbike and eBay and song ever see any.
I terms of sizing they can make anything, but most are generic with sizing being 10mm increments on reach and certain step ups in chainstay as the sizing grows. Ideally we want a size 8, 480mm reach. The demo bike was 470mm which was great, but I think the extra 10mm would suit him.
We're still having a lot of bike/team debates, I have my thoughts and he has his, somewhere in the middle is a common ground. But what this is, is still a slight mystery. But for now we'll just keep on riding and racing.
The boy is toned and defined but he's not massive, his body fat is very very low so every sinew can be seen. It's interesting when you look around paddocks as there's no defined size or shape that's the best, a Bruni is built and stacked, Jackson is tiny and slight, but I bet still strong. Then everyone else is again different. But there's little doubt that being stronger and fitter will massively help him.
Thank you, the work is fun, mostly. It's a massive amount of back end work too, like 4 trips to Fort William, trips to Italy, France, Spain, the driving, energy and fatigue can be draining, especially night after night in fields in the cold. But the rewards are high for him and us as parents. Even today though, he's got a day off, but I'm still riding today before we head to FoD in the morning, so I've still got the spark in me to ride and bikes in general.
House goes on the market in a few months and we'll be moving to FoD for his next chapter, we're all looking forward to it.
Exciting times mate.
It's taken a while but that's on the boy as he doesn't like being pushed into doing or going somewhere, like most kids I guess.
This is so true. I've got mtb specific gym plans and a spare hardtail and my lad won't have a bar of it. We looked at his results from his last enduro race and I pointed out exactly where we could make some improvements without too much effort but he's not at all interested.
And I remember being the same with football training when I was a kid, so I don't push it.
As always with testing it's a bit of a slow process, a try this, try that, lets do this, lets do that, go again, again, up again....
But that's the nature of the beast and the steps needed to dial things in. The morning started with a baseline to see where our settings were, apparently they were not the best LOL, add to that his tyre was a Kryptotal Re (rear) on the front, which i'd obviously fitted in a hurry at Fort William, but it seemed to work OK there 🙂
After the baselines, they went to work on the getting the suspension dialled with the standard bike first. While they were doing that i went out and hit the long red loop with the new sections in there too and had a blast on my Fuel.
The afternoon brought in the TMD testing, but also a bit of a hugey for the boy who lost it, possibly due to mistakes but possibly due to slightly too much rebound on the back. It's all about rider feedback at this stage, along with what the data says of course, but a combination of rider/data to get the end result. As we've used Rich before, the boy knows what to expect and knows that just riding the bike isn't the answer, it's riding and thinking.
The only downside with the TMD testing was that the boy was getting a bit tired by the time we got to TMD runs, but was still putting down the pace hard, he's flying at the moment. I wasn't around for this testing as i just leave them to it, i'm not at their levels so i was fixing a puncture for a mates son along with grabbing a beer and talking shit with the blokes 🙂
But the reports for the TMD are that
1. He can notice it
2. The bike feels a chunk more stable.
3. He likes it
4. The weight doesn't adversely affect the ride.
All in all, very positive. I'll wait for the data sheets from Rich along with all the information that comes too, but i'm happy that both him and the boy are happy with the bike... (yeah yeah, despite it being too small lol)
The 'too small' bike thing is getting plans slowly put into place, but he's got an afternoon with Katy this week where there's hopefully a few questions and answers that'll come up and then the odds are a new bike will be ordered soon. Unless the question i think were being answered, are not..then, i have no clue 😀
A load of mates of both him and me were at the Forest today, which made the day even better, i did some lapping with one of the parents, who as i know is a fair chunk quicker than me both up and down, but i think i made a reasonable fist of things and did OK, i hit a few features faster than i've ever done before and that cheered me up a lot 🙂 But most importantly it showed that our upcoming house move is deffo the right plan..It'll be nice to finish the day at 4.45 and be home before 5 😀
Into the garage nice and handy this morning...
Needed a surprising amount of jobs doing, it was one of those days where when you start, you find something else, then something else, then you're balls deep in bits, wheels, tyres and stuff.
first was sorting tyres. One of the fronts had a Kryptotal rear, so was swapped for a front. However when i then went to put that rear onto the rear i found a decent dink in the rear rim.... Which sadly meant the rear isn't holding air.
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I think it'll fix up fine, but wanted to take it to the LBS next week first as this was a bit of a test rim, so he can send feedback to them.
So a new rear wheel went in instead and i was checking the pads.
Yeah they're TOAST
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So that's a new set of pads and a full bleed along with a 'piston massage' done on the back end.
He was saying yesterday about having jumpy gears, but as we only had a new mech hanger (Burgtec) last week i thought it's more likely to be the indexing, as the cable end was frayed, a new gear inner went in and that's all done.
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As is common on DH bikes the triples creak where a bit of dust gets in between the uppers and clamps, so the forks were stripped, cleaned and put back together with a bit of grease on the bolts, you can hear it when you release one of the clamp bolts that it 'creaks' so needs a clean...
After that it was a new Saddle installed and that's it, all good. Apart from a bit of a lack of wheels at the moment, which we'll get sorted this week, we're all good and ready for racing this weekend.
Lots of changes both front and rear with 10psi more in the front and 15psi more the rear Vivid.
5 clicks different in the Vivid rebound.
Quite different on the front end in terms of both rebound and LSC too.
I expect it'll ride pretty differently so may get him to do a few uplifts on DH this week if he's got energy.
Considering he's pretty picky about the bike, how did he feel about making such big changes?
Do you run inserts? Due to size of the hits and rocky locations there seems to be a lot of dented rims you have which must cost a fortune in replacing and wheel builds which perhaps an insert could help mitigate (if not I assume this is down to ride feel?).
That's a tricky one and we won't really know for another days riding or more. He said the bike feels more stable and planted, but he did have a massive off at 12ish, but whether that was suspension (they'd just changed some settings) or the fact he just crashed, that's open to debate.
Obviously this was only at FoD and on Ski Run, a track he knows well, but is only 1min for him, so it's hard to equate what effect it had in terms of time as even if it's 1s different per minute, that's still pretty hard to track and spot, the tiniest mistake is 1s of course, slightly off-line, 1s....
So he's back out on Wed to test again without the pressure of having to concentrate on what the bike is doing underneath him and just able to ride and enjoy it. We're then off racing this weekend with Pearce which is a full day on Sat and a decent day on Sun to get used to things.
So all in all, he's happy the bike felt better afterwards, but how much of that was TMD and how much was the suspension wizardry, we'll have to see.
From listening to RSR it seems the boy was feeling the things he was supposed to feel, the data was echoing his reports/findings on the runs "oh that felt too firm and a bit sketchy" was mirrored in the data after the run. Then changes made, then he was feeling happier on the next one... etc.
Do you run inserts? Due to size of the hits and rocky locations there seems to be a lot of dented rims you have which must cost a fortune in replacing and wheel builds which perhaps an insert could help mitigate (if not I assume this is down to ride feel?).
We do not....there's a few reasons behind that.
1. Rider feel, we've tried inserts and he's not keen on the feeling
2. Continental tyre techs told us that inserts should not be used, this is due to the tyre being created for a certain amount of air/pressure to work best, when you add a solid object in there instead, that changes how the tyre works, reacts and feels. The thoughts being, if you're killing them, we're doing our job wrong.
It seems the dent was there on Thurs, so it's open to debate if it happened at Dyfi the weekend before or a massive case he had on Tues evening when out with me. Ideally though i completely agree it'd massively help my bank if it wasn't happening. But at FW for example there were wheel after wheels broken, some running Alu, some carbon, some inserts, some without, some Michelin, Maxxis, etc etc. It seems to me Conti are doing better than most.. But as his speed and arguably size/weight has increased, well yes we're getting more than we'd like. My bank account would sure like a few less, we've got 4 rears and currently i've only got 1 fit for riding lol. By tomorrow Rotec will have 2 more built again for the weekend for us.
I don't really have the answer in truth, i don't think he/we do terribly for wheels compared to some, but yeah.... Mmmmm
Do people use electronic gears in downhill, or does the potential breakage costs vs slightly better shifting (maybe) and no cable issues make it not worthwhile?
Do people use electronic gears in downhill, or does the potential breakage costs vs slightly better shifting (maybe) and no cable issues make it not worthwhile?
Well all the gearbox bikes are SmartShift which is all electronic. In truth, i've not looked or considered it much in terms of standard derailleur bikes, but now you've mentioned it, i'll have a peek
Do people use electronic gears in downhill, or does the potential breakage costs vs slightly better shifting (maybe) and no cable issues make it not worthwhile?
there’s no short cage, off the shelf, leccy MTB DH derailleurs (though in theory you could use a road one and corresponding cassette, but they aren’t the most durable, and don’t have the mechanisms to save them in a hit). It’s possible to modify eagle AXS with a DH cage, but you only get 6/7 gears on a DH cassette, due to the spacing. Fraezen are prototyping a cage to go on transmission mechs, which can then work with a SRAM 12speed road cassette. Mine should be here in a few weeks 😎 £££ though.
Do you change gear enough for it to matter? Ive always assumed that once you’ve sprinted out of the start gate then you wouldn’t change gear again
Do you change gear enough for it to matter? Ive always assumed that once you’ve sprinted out of the start gate then you wouldn’t change gear again
According to the lad on a 3 minute track, for example Cwmcarn, you've got click,click out of the gate, then you change 5 more throught the race, giving a total of 7 changes.
Rhyd-Y-Felin, 2 out of the gate, 3 others in the race.
G Atherton had a blank ? Cylinder taking the place of one of the cogs in his cassette that he could shift into to disassociate the suspension action from the pedal interference, so I assume he would change gear more than a couple on the start ramp.
So once again it's race weekend of course 😀
This one is Pearce, it's at a new forest/location known at Redwood. A few people have done an uplift day there, but as that was on the same weekend as Fort William, most missed the day and went there instead. From watching the videos it's very very 'Pearce' as you'd expect. They build tracks in the same sort of way wherever they go. Some steep, some twisty, a few jumps.. Typical sort of Shropshire off-piste type stuff blended into a bit of trail center as well. It's generally great fun and i can't see why this will be any different.
It'll be the usual weekend of camping fun with mates, banter, laughs and a bit of friendly rivalry as the majority of our mates will be finishing very close together come race day. So always a bit of needling and rivalry coming out 🙂
We're back up to 2 rears at the moment, but weirdly the Halo which i couldn't get to seat/bead went straight on last night at LBS with the compressor, so he's heading in today to see if it stayed inflated. If it did, it's good to go i guess, but we've got a spare anyway with a brand new Kryptotal fitted on there so that's golden.
The Pearce series is always cracking racing and him and mates should all go pretty well assuming they have clean runs. I'm most interested to see how he goes with the TMD. He's got an afternoon at FoD today with Katy to dial himself into the TMD and new settings as well. Again, really curious to see how that goes.
We fitted the new jockey wheels yesterday which the LBS doesn't like much due to lack of float, so everything apparently needs to be perfect or they get a bit yukky. But he was having issues with SRAM jockeys dropping indexing onto the wrong cog of the narrow wide and this was the easy solution. Apparently it's quite a 'thing' ... but in truth until recently i've not seen it much/at-all. Just another minor thing that's being tested lol.
The boy is trying to persuade me into the French Cup race in Les Menuires in Aug. Funnily enough we have an entry in it as i booked it in March and have been unable to cancel, but after the Euro Champs and stuff with work i was unable to do it. However part of our plans changed as the IXS in Bellwald clashes with the last Pearce race, so we'll stay here and do Pearce, but that frees up a bit of cash so he's trying to get me to do :
Return from Morzine, head straight to Llangollen for National. Then on the Wed head to Les Menuires, race the French Cup, then drive back and after 2 days off head to the next Pearce LOL. I'm not even sure i can manage the annual leave for it, let alone the actual logistics without dying 😀 So it's looking somewhat unlikely.
Doesn’t the boy usually do pretty well at the Pearce events? Aren’t they usually the shorter races, circa a minute?
Do you change gear enough for it to matter? Ive always assumed that once you’ve sprinted out of the start gate then you wouldn’t change gear again
According to the lad on a 3 minute track, for example Cwmcarn, you've got click,click out of the gate, then you change 5 more throught the race, giving a total of 7 changes.
Rhyd-Y-Felin, 2 out of the gate, 3 others in the race.
thanks. More than I thought
Doesn’t the boy usually do pretty well at the Pearce events? Aren’t they usually the shorter races, circa a minute?
YEah he goes well at Pearce. Races are 2mins+ with the shortest being about 2.10. This is a new track so no idea on the length/time yet.
All things being equal he should be in the top 4, but it's DH racing.... so it's a great unknown... but you have a decent idea who the majority of the competitors are.
Just saw a preview of the track, looks fun.
Yeah, that looks great fun
Weekend was going sweetly enough until about 20 min before his race run, then it went rainy. It's that weird misty rain that gets out wet without being big raindrops.
As we got closer to his run the rain continued making the track wetter for the later riders. As it's reverse order from championship position he was out late.
He came down in P2 on his run but with 2 fast lads behind him who both pipped him so finished 4th on run 1.
It's continued to get and stay wetter so I'm not sure anyone can find more in run 2. But we have 2 hours until then, so who knows.
His run wasn't bad he said but he wasn't sure how much to push in the conditions, it turns out a bit more was needed lol
Both races score points for the overall, so it's still important to try and get a fast 2nd run.
Rain rain rain. Runs were 10s slower so finished 4th
Still a good result 👏👏👏
Yeah, not quite the podium we'd have liked, but as always it was tight and the conditions/rain played a part in the game...but it was great for the overall series as he was P4 and P3 for the runs, so decent overall points.
Need a lie down now... i'm tired and achey and... well...knackered.
Tough but good weekend all round really. From practice 1 on Sat morning i can't say the boy was massively feeling the track, it was very new and some of the berms/corners were not holding as well as i think they hoped, but when you throw 200+ riders down them time and time again they take a massive beating.
He was trying new lines, particularly in the woods, which on race runs would work out well and he was one of only 3 taking this line but that ended up being 2nd quickest on the sector timing.
The bike was working lovely, with a few quirks on the gears so in the afternoon i ended up re-fitting the standard SRAM jockey wheels after removing the Hopes. Even with checking the mech, checking the alignment etc i still couldn't get the gearing perfect. Thoughts were that the Hope jockeys have 0 float in them which can make it really finicky on things.
The evening brought beer, banter and spannering as always, again as always none on our bike lol. It was various wheels, tubless setups, installing a new E-13 Sidkick wheel/setup , some brake bleeds and other various fun little jobs. But it was all spent with a beer in hand so i'm fine with that of course 🙂
Race day was smooth, apart from a buddy snapping his femur on the early triple, whoops. The boy just wasn't quite there in terms of speed for the win/podium. But he was right in the ball park. Run 1 he just didn't know how much the conditions had affected things and 1 major corner that was riding very loose he took really easy after the first big rain shower but apparently it had really helped that corner so lost a fair bit of time.
There's a long wait now he's in juniors at times throughout the day and the conditions were changing from minute to minute. But he wanted the Arogtals on so that's what he got. I wished i had the new compressor with me, but it was OK with the track pump if a little sweaty 😀
Run2 again he was happy, his splits were decent but no-one was getting anywhere near their run 1 times, so his finish was about as good as it gets.
It's still a 3 hour drive to get home and by the time you get home you've got a tonne of stuff in the van to unload, the bike to re-wash and lube and not forgetting the washing, the cooking stuff and all the kit to dry like the gazebo lol.
It's been a bit quiet this week as the boy has been a little injured from FoD Thursday. He stacked it and bashed his head slightly, but more importantly bashed his leg and has given himself a solid dead leg. Struggling a bit at the moment, but getting better.
I enforced the decision of "nah, i'm going to BPW on my own, you stay home" which didn't please him at all, but he seems to have understood the logic as it's back to the National DH series this weekend.
We did have a new plan, but that's taken a small delay due to the seller not getting the part to me this weekend as planned, so he'll still be racing on his white Session. But we do have this arriving at the weekend.
This is of course the same as his Session, apart from being the next (and biggest) size up.
The reach on his current Session is 466mm with the new one being 493mm. There's been talk a while now of his Session being too small and with this coming up as a Frame only option we jumped on the plan.
There's other plans forming longer term of course, other options and other discussions, but for the rest of 25, he's likely to be on the new Session frame. I can build the whole bike apart from the forks out of spares, so the plan is to head to Dyfi the weekend of 21st and do a days testing on both, it'll be the morning on bike 1 and the afternoon on bike 2 as it'll take me 45 mins to swap the bits like forks and brakes over to the new frame while he has some lunch.
I'm looking forward to both this weekends National and of course getting this up and running too. 🙂
Is that mam tor in the background
Is that mam tor in the background
No clue. It's an ex-WCDH bike from the Union team, it was a spare bike. A mate of ours bought it and has used it but he's now on a completely new bike so this became available. We did a deal on the frame without his shock as the boy loves his Vivid. The pic actually looks like Pontypool to me. But i couldn't say in truth.
In the interest of more experimentation, thanks to Rotec i just picked up a new rear wheel. This time 27.5 to mullet the new bike.
There's a couple of reasons for this, one is that it'll lessen the reach slightly, although i don't know how much of that is negated by sticking it in 'high' on the flipchip along with the mullet wheel. Partly too is that if you'd seen the article on Pinkbike, 95% of the bikes are now mullet, including any of our other potential options to buy in the future, so makes sense to try the mullet for a while during the mid-season quiet time.
From when we get the frame we've got 5 weeks until the next planned race which is the National Champs in Fort William. So we've got a while to test both frame sizes, wheel sizes, settings etc etc... I'm hoping by the time we go to there we'll be golden. But don't expect us to be coming home with a podium again lol.
Not quite sure how, but DAMN he's pringled his chain ring, i'd say hi/lo point is about 10mm bent.
He's due to go out riding this afternoon so i'll have to whip the cranks off mine and fit onto his for the day.
Interestingly i bashed the chainring that was now fitted to my bike instead and got it somewhat straight, Shimano use some new system which is with bigger teeth apparently and on a 17 mile ride yesterday it was golden. It'll still get swapped when the part arrives from Biketart, but it did a job.
Van is mostly loaded and full, just fitted an Argotal on the spare wheels as the weather for Saturday is looking somewhat dodgy. I'm not always convinced it's Argotal weather but if he wants them on there it's better to do at home with the compressor than at the track in the rain 😀
Almost secured a deal on a set of Boxxers last night but the location didn't quite work out, however it may happen next weekend when we've got a bit more time. I can then build the 2nd frame into a full spare bike, which would bring quite a dilemma for Morzine as to whether i take the Session/Session or Session/Fuel.
The bike travel dilemma - apparently I'm taking 4 bikes to Scotland this year..... 2 enduro, Downhill and dirt jump /pump track bike.......
The bike travel dilemma - apparently I'm taking 4 bikes to Scotland this year..... 2 enduro, Downhill and dirt jump /pump track bike.......
LOL yeah tell me about it, it's made worse some weekends by take 3 memory foam matresses as well as the gazebo, massive tent, 3 tonnes of cooking, washing, cleaning, eating stuff. Then the bikes, multiple sets of kit, helmets, goggles etc etc. I think for Morzine and the Euro Champs we're likely to just take the 2 Sessions as that'll help a bit with space, but that'll restrict me a little bit of what i can/can't do in terms of riding, so i really don't know the answer yet. 3 bikes in the van for Dyfi/BPW works OK, but not to Europe with all the other stuff that has to go as well.
Sounds like you need a trailer for the euro trips
Sounds like you need a trailer for the euro trips
Next year all things being equal we'll have a much bigger van potentially which will remove the issue completely. I mean, it's not an 'issue' as such currently, it just takes a bit of a Jenga fun and games at times. The problem with the van is that mostly you only use half of it as you can't stack everything up to the ceiling. But in truth we'll make it work either way.
We won't be taking the memory foams to Europe as it's just me and the boy so we will blow-up mattress it instead which take a tonne of space less.
Sort of off topic, self inflating mattresses are great. A lot warmer and comfier than inflatables, and can be rolled up fairly compact.
Can you put a roof box on the van for the bulky light stuff?
Next year all things being equal we'll have a much bigger van potentially which will remove the issue completely.
I had vision of a graphiced up trailer with weeksy racing on the side FMD racing styleee
8pm and we seem to have bought a frame
"We may as well run it this weekend hey" says the boy.
"Ummmm sure mate"
It's needs a bit of fiddly tidying in the morning but I can't really see as it's dark.
It's also the end of the world as the brief shower has been a 3 hour monsoon.
It's just hammering down beyond words.
I can't see how anyone will get any sleep.
