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I was hoping to build a trail with a group of lads in the local forest and have been approached by the IMBA. Met with a decent fella today for a chat and a walk about the proposed area and it was very promising, but fairly serious. Funding, insurance, partnerships etc - not really the kind of thing i'm familiar with, as we've generally just built stuff on the fly. Some good, some bad, but we're getting the hang of it and with a lot of hard work we could make a great trail.
I'm thinking that taking the official route and going all IMBA will likely produce a better constructed and longer lasting trail. But I fear it will be a timid shadow of the trail we would construct. While i'm thinking rough, jumpy, scary, downhill monster he's talking graded runs and carparks (with the easier runs getting the first build). There's also the red tape factor to slow things down and the chance that it will never get off the ground if we do it by the books. On the other flip side (?), if we get the green light there'd be money for tools, equipment and supplies and legal access to the forest as well as training on assorted trail building machinery. Which is nice.
So, plough on ahead or hitch up with this IMBA lot seems to be my dilema.
Anyone been in a similar situation an can offer advice?
Any members on here who could answer some questions?
What does the land owner think?
'i'm thinking rough, jumpy, scary, downhill monster'...If you're getting funding=all ability and insurance=risk assesment and partnership=compromise.
The land owner is the Northern Ireland FS - not known for their tolerance on such matters. But from what I gather today, they will be coming under severe pressure from some fairly pissed off politicans after their recent attempts to ban forest access to practically everyone, backfired badly.
If you're getting funding=all ability and insurance=risk assesment and partnership=compromise.
I'm not too hung up on the idea of a compromised trail. I think we could design and build something that would suit fast riding and not scare beginners 5hitless as the same time 😆 with the promise of 'tougher' trails to follow.
It's maybe more the fact that with a few months serious graft we'd be ready to roll with a fun-filled, slighlty ghetto, trail [i]or [/i]impatiently waiting for the paper wheels to start turning.
7Stanes trailbuilders have all the spec sheets, risk assesment and stuff you need. Surely the Irish & Scottish FC/FS can talk to each other without involving IMBA????
Is this to be a playground just for you and your mates or will it be open to the public?
If it is to be open to the public then you are going to have to compromise.
Since the first "proper" trail was constructed at Coed y Brenin a lot of work has gone into designing trails that do not wash away at the first drop of rain 🙄
If it is to be just a trail you and your mates want to play on then erosion will not be a concern. Will it? Probably is to the FS 😕
It was always one of the Stanes mistakes(imo) that blue/green routes were not given the consideration they should have at the beginning. Everyone got all excited and carried away with red/black routes. Your biggest "client/customer" are likely to be the beginner and families. You only need to look at the rave reviews that the blue trails at Glentress and Whinlatter receive to get an idea of where to start. Ae desperately needs an upgrade to the blue/green trails but that has been knocked back again I hear 🙄
Unofficial trails will no doubt get removed, wasting all your hard work!
Surely the Irish & Scottish FC/FS can talk to each other without involving IMBA????
Surely is right! Sadly the NI FS are extremely obstructive when it comes to using [i]their[/i] land for anything other than growing trees on. Many attempts have been made in the past 10+ years by various bodies to get things moving and it's always the FS that derail the train.
Still laughing at the thought of NI FS talking to anyone apart from the timber industry.
I'd batter on, don't build anything stupid that's going to put people at risk of life & limb and get a trail built your own way. At least you'll get a bit of use out of it.
NIFS will stomp your unofficial trails into the dust, they take it personally. They've put huge effort into tearing down trails in my local spot. I take it youve been chatting to Oliver? A good lad and knows his stuff, if anyone can get something off the ground it'll be him. My email address is in my profile if youve any questions.
NIFS will stomp your unofficial trails into the dust, they take it personally.
If they can find dust in this forest, they're better men than me 😆
Yup, Olly seems a good bloke and the thought of a trail centre type thing 10mins from my house is mouthwatering to say the least. Very early days though.
The fact that the 7Stanes crew have spent 10yrs developing trail specs, risk assesments CDM regs, trail inspection reporting system etc must surely be of some benefit ❓
I do know how it works I was involved in schemes yrs before the Stanes project and since. You just need patience and play the game(long) 🙄
Sustainable trails require a lot of effort, money and time. I would imagine anything you build with out serious support will not be sustainable.
You mention access to funding machinery etc. Who's providing all this and if they have this at their disposal why are they approaching you?
From experience handbuilding trails takes a huge amount of time, think 1km per year if you're lucky and there's not too many trail feature. Get anything other than a power barrow involved and you're talking contractors, £ 25 per meter plus materials so you're talking big money.
I don't want to put you off but you're inital post sounds a little naive. If you're even contemplating building unsanctionned trails then you're not serious about them having any sort of future. I'm not familiar with the NI FS but from the comments on here it would appear they're not trail freindly at the best of times, couple that with rider and weather damage anything you build on your own isn't going to last very long. Heavily used trails need to be constructed, not just have a line cleared.
Good luck with what you're trying to do, if there were more people prepared to get stuck in like you we'd have many more trails. Just take as much advice as you can get and don't underestimate the effort required.
Trekster, all the stuff you mention has been done for sites before, but the FS have a habit of pulling the plug (after constantly moving the goalposts multiple times). There are guys looking after that side of things and use the Scottish template as a starting point.
SJ, don't know why they're approaching me, i guess they are looking for some mug who doesn't mind lifting a spade 😀
I'm still unsure of the finer details as our meeting was cut short. I'm guessing the machinery will be hired when needed (paid for from funds/grants obtained) although the majority of the work will be hand built. There are small dedicated cells 😉 dotted throughout the country and i'm hoping that the chance to finally build something that wont get destroyed will be enough to rally the troops so to speak. Plus there's plenty of folk who have shown an interest in helping out.
Believe it or not, a good deal of the trails that aren't destroyed by the FS are still going after many years of riding and new ones pop up all the time. The same guys who build them look after them during the winter. They aren't subjected to heavy us though as the builders try to keep them as private as possible (one of my concerns about doing it properly will be giving away locations for the potential homebrew trails).
Cheers, i think we'll be needing that luck.
Bump
No members then?
We found IMBA really supportive when we were starting out - through it I was able to get in touch with loads of helpful types like Stu from Chase Trails, Dick Barton at Carron Valley, etc. We stopped being affiliated after they pared back their member services (insurance principally) because we were happily running on a micro-budget of a couple of hundred quid a year and couldn't really justify the expense, but still benefit indrectly from IMBA's activities - e.g. the new trails in Bristol have been spearheaded by a guy who also sits on the executive committee.
They weren't so clued up about about DH/FR building back then (one local IMBA bigwig cornered the guy organising the DH dig days and explained that he should have regular grade reversals in his tracks and make them no steeper than 20%) but I'm sure this has changed.
From what you're saying it just sounds like the guy wants to be helpful and isn't fussed whether you sign up or not. I would say go for it, but as others have said, be prepared for a lot of red tape. The other thing is that ideally you don't want to be going down the official route, jumping through all the hoops, etc, but not have any written agreement with the landowner.
Hi guys, as chairman of IMBA-UK I would always advocate getting the permission of the land owner to build trail, not doing often results in your hard work being wasted by having illegal trails removed - I know this from bitter personal experience in my formative years!
IMBA-UK are a non profit voluntary group who's mission is to assist mountain bikers in getting more trails to ride and keeping existing routes open.
We have been working hard in Northern Ireland meeting with Michelle O'neill Minister for Environment and the heads of the Forest Service. We have also been in contact with the guys from TrailBadger.com who are working towards the same goal of opening up new trails in the forests.
This partnership has been able to overturn by-laws preventing riders from entering forests and even allows for access after dark (night riding - yay!).
It is my experience that land managers are almost always sceptical in relation to new mountain bike trails, they worry about the cost of building and maintaining purpose built routes and fear litigation should some get hurt using them. However the minister and her staff can see the benefits of managing their forest land and not spending valuable resources removing illegally built trails.They can also see the economic and social benefits of having purpose built bike trail on their land. The minister and her staff envisage a future where purpose built trails will exist in Northern Ireland.
Working together IMBA and Trail Badger hope to liase with the government to allow further access and facilitate purpose built trail sections in the near future. We hope to engage volunteers and contractors to build a variety of trail to suit the needs of all types of rider, seeking funding for larger scale projects whilst working with local groups to build trail 'out of the back door'.
I understand your fear of 'dumb down' trail but IMBA is working to build sustainable trails that will provide a challenging and fun experience for a variety of riding styles - from DH shredders to new riders.
I am personally of a DH/ Freeride back ground and love to build and ride trails to meet the needs of that type of rider, IMBA isnt just about xc trails (any more!). I recently returned from IMBA HQ in the states where I met with other IMBA staff such as Randy Spangler and Tammy Donahugh, both professional dirt jump / free riders and IMBA trail builders picking up tips from both on building sustainable, safe trails aimed at gravity riders.
IMBA-UK has a new website, it launches on Monday next week, where we will be offering new membership packages, these include £10 million public liability insurance for clubs and individuals covering users for trail building as well as riding. Check out www.imba.org.uk for more info.
We hope you will become an IMBA member but are happy to support anyone who is trying to get trails on the ground, I hope you will continue to communicate with Oliver and that we can work with you in the future to get some more trails on the ground in Northern Ireland. If you would like to communicate with me directly you can email me at mark.mcclure@imba.org.uk
Euro (M)
The site we walked has massive potential, brilliant hard clay real nice slopes.
If you can round up a few like minded riders ( I have been in constant contact with same site users)
get an agree first stage plan, small loop to just judge how tough a technical loop will be.
Have a plan that doesn't scare the council ( just yet ; ) you might find your track getting a more positive interest than you think.
Keep in touch.
Get to the access forum workshops see how each area is coping or not being the case.
I'm happy to call by again to see were assist.
Theres heaps of small grants to assist projects.
I know its hard to get interested in stuff you'll not usr but you must win the council over first.
KEEP IT SIMPLE for now.
have you ever visited djouce ?