[Closed] If you were going to buy new disc brakes...

yes those clarks are cheap and look the part

anyone got them care to comment ?

Few years back, in the Alps, levers to bars, heading for a tight corner with a large drop to the side, had to bin the bike, ripped the rear mech off and landed in a heap battered and bleeding. Put me right off them and sold them as soon as I got home. Replaced with Saints.

Plus, last year in the Alps, long rocky descent, 9 riders at the bottom, 3 had boiled brakes and they were all Hopes. Sorry, just don't trust 'em, know some love 'em, but not for me. Can't fault Shimano brakes.

I bought some Avid Elixer 5s from Wholly Hat Shop last year for £130 for the full set up. Can't fault them, very easy install and they are a big step in performance from Juicy 3/5/7. All avid juicy's are the same design the higher cost models offer more adjustability and lighter materials, same for the elixers but the elixer design is the newer improved model. So the basic Elixer offers better performance than the top end Juicys. In my view there is no value for money in the cost of reach adjustment and carbon leavers etc. I can blow my nose and save that much weight.

re the clarks skeletal
we've got them in the shop and have fitted them to a few bikes, they are well made, easy to fit, easy to bleed as well and seem powerful enough (on the ride around the block road test) if I didnt have hopes then i'd have a set (may still throw some on the tandem)

Well I hope the XTs are all they're cracked up to be as mine just arrived this afternoon from Ribble. For those who are thinking of going for them, they are OEM packed, no instructions, have the M06 pads fitted, and both ends come with IS adaptors, for 160mm rotors (not supplied). So to go 180/160 you need the appropriate adaptor for your fork. You get spare olives, transport spacers, bleed spacers and all the bolts you need except for the rotor ones. Can't wait to give them a go tomorrow evening.

hope minis

spev - how much are you doing them for ?

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member
"I can only imagine you've not tried M4's on Tech levers then. "

You'd assume wrong. More expensive, and not as good feel at the lever as my Oros. Power was pretty comparable but I don't know what pads the Hopes had in to be fair. They were perfectly decent, just too expensive. TBH I'd probably choose my XTs over them as well, and the XTs aren't as good as the Oros.

It's got to be shimano for me, at any price point they do fantastic brakes Deore's do the Job admirably, but I've had great experiences with LX, XT, Saint (older 2 pot and currently XTR (with old style XT levers)...

Mix and match compatibility of calipers and levers and spares/Pads availability is actually pretty good (find me a shop that won't carry/order in shimano parts)

Hope are all well and good, I like and own some examples of their Hubs and BBs but I don't see the additional value in their braking products over and above shimano's not when your looking at almost double the spend in some instances for something that arguably does the same job no better (personal opinion only of course)...

If you choose to express your patriotism through the products you buy then I suppose that's a big plus for Hope, but otherwise go with the masses...

for my money it's Shimano every time.

a few mates have had Formulas. K18 and K24 to be precise. the 18's were good although the lever had a tendency to pop out of the housing which became annoying (matey did used to fall over alot though). 24's were good, but only once they'd been heated up. in the cold they were pants; no power/confidence in them.

my SLX have been faultless. the same can be said for the old Deores on the GF's bike. pleny of modulation and power regardless of temperature.

one mate has XTs on his bike. can't say i like them as much as my SLX. the lever feels more wooden. less throw to them. they stop you ok, but as far as 'feel' goes they don't cut it.

Shimano are also easy to bleed (bottom up, IME). the Formula were a PITA.

Strangely I've never been in a situation where I need to service Shimano brakes whereas Hopes are terminally unreliable.

X2s also lack power, have a very vague lever feel and, astoundingly, are still unreliable.

And yes, you can get shimano spares. You just won't need to.

"Shimano are also easy to bleed (bottom up, IME). the Formula were a PITA."

Ah, that's a fair point, I'm kind of opposed to brakes that need specific bleed kits generally. Having said that if you follow the instructions exactly they're simple and clean to do, which is nice... Takes me about the same time as it does my XTs.

Also, the finish on the Formulas is completely crap, very brittle so it chips easily. So if you're a tart that's a definate negative, but my bikes all look like they've been in a cement mixer so it's not really an issue for me 😉

SpokesCycles - Member
Strangely I've never been in a situation where I need to service Shimano brakes whereas Hopes are terminally unreliable.

X2s also lack power, have a very vague lever feel and, astoundingly, are still unreliable.

what utter rubbish. I have 4 sets of hopes - all totally reliable. all have spares back up unlike shimano if you do need them

Hopes only become unreliable and boil when not maintained properly. any brake with dot fliud needs an annual fluid change.

anyone who finds hopes lack power and are unreliable needs to learn to maintain them.

Every hope I've had was faulty from new. Regardless of maintenance. I've never boiled a brake in my life.

I've bled my shimanos once after I shortened the hoses. In my time with Hope it was overly regular.

The one set of X2s I've had experience with have lasted 8 months before pissing out the pistons. Utter rubbish.

You can get Shimano spares. You just never need to.

Out of curiosity, how do you get shimano spares? I had one of my XT calipers develop a sticky piston, ended up just replacing the caliper with a cheap XTR one (£20 with pads) but it'd be good to know how to get spares.

A dealer can get hold of most bits if they need to, but I'll admit replacing the calipers is often a cheaper way to go with the deals about.

spokescycles - please explain where youget these shimano brake spares from - 'cos madison don't have them for most of the brakes

As for your experience with hopes - you are the only person that that happens to

next time you are around my way have a shot on one of my bikes with well set up reliable and powerful hopes - you might just be suprised

Justa, we've got em up for £59.99 I think (we fit em for free) but we could prob do a discount off that as well, are you local? If you are just say your either in the CTC or university 🙂
or ask for me Chris (the speccy one)

Avid BB7's.

spev - no not local - shame though i was at afan at the weekend !

I've got SLX, they have quite a soft lever feel even after a bleed, but plenty of power and very reliable.

Is a brake that can never be serviced still good value for money?

I'd rather have one that didn't need servicing 😀

I've run avids for 3 years and other than the odd fluid change and a couple of pairs of pads they've been awesome, elixirs are very good, but still loving my juicy 7's. (that said I'm hankering for a set of formula the one's)

I've got a range of Magura, Forumula, Hayes, Hopes and Shimano brakes on my bikes and for easy of set-up, reliability and power I don't think Deore's can be faulted - plus they have the added benefit of being cheap.

I recently replaced the Deore's on my Zion with some light and bling carbon/Ti Hayes and while the Hayes are ok I was surprised by how much less power they had compared to the Deores.

+1 for Hope M4's - I've run a number of brakes and have settled on them. All mine have been reliable, powerful enough to stop a mule and even I can change fluids / bleed / change pads.

anyone who finds hopes lack power and are unreliable needs to learn to maintain them.

To me, there lies the problem. The Shimano's I've owned have needed no maintenance or the need for spare parts. The just work. My old Saints were on the bike for over 4 years and bled once.

Re: Shimano spares - I've always found them easy to get hold of, direct from Ultimate Pursuits (now [url= http://www.madison.co.uk/products.aspx?vertical=Cycling&tier1=Braking+Components ]Madison[/url])

I'd personally (probably) go for Shimano XT or SLX as have always found them so reliable. And simple to maintain (and easy to get parts for!)(It would take a fair few hours research before making my decision though 🙂 )

I have to say that Hope have never been unreliable for me but once i'd tried the RX1's on a demo bike returning to using my X2 was just not nice. They felt horrible in comparison. The Formula's just have far superior modulation and also bags of power.

Hope are easy to bleed though but we had to bleed my wifes RX brakes after shortening the hoses, but with the proper bleed kit that was easy.

There's some good deals around on the older Formula brakes too...

No problems with shimano here, don't see any reason to buy anything else, but I've not needed spares yet.

BTW, only needed Shimano spares due to breakages caused by crashes.

I'm using Magura Marta brakes, brilliant. Light enough to be a cross country brake. When I go to the Alps I pop on big rotas and they are a full on DH brake

It seems that brakes are a personal thing.

not as good feel at the lever as my Oros

Hmmm - about a million different opinions here!

Replaced my Juicy 5s (fine when working - often weren't, hateful pad replacement) with Elixir CRs recently and they are a world apart - brilliant feel, loads of power, no more squeaking and of course they look nice too...

Love Hope stuff (got plenty of it on my bike) but never really "got" their brakes.

I have used avid 3, 5 and carbon Hope and Shimano- every brake i have ever used including rim brakes can lock your wheels so why the need for more power? How much servicing /fettling they need seems to be a bit of luck. I ilike the Avid syringe bleeding method though.
My hopes needing bleeding after a service and more of a faff IMHO.
Not helpful eh. Agree with buying Hope wherepossible to support UK manufacturers and also the service is superb.

slx are the best brakes I've ever used. I used to be a Hope man before that and just had enough of fixing them so tried the SLX and will likely never go back.

Justa, I was at Afan as well, headbutting a tree and doubling the size of my shin 🙂

Jeremy- I've felt your brakes. They feel like everyone elses- vague and weak. The only good Hopes I've ever felt are ollie's old M4s and he had to upgrade them to goodridge hoses and so on.

I've had a lot of brakes in the past but have now settled with Magura. By far the most reliable I've had. The latest Formulas look like they maybe good, but I've no experience other than a go on somebody else's set. If I wasn't buying Maguras then I'd probably get them.

Hope Tech M4 F+R here. Why? Well because I had it good recommendation from forums such as this a few years ago.

They are a vast improvement on the OEM kit I had (Hayes Sole). But I can't claim they are the best thing out there.

Went for braided hoses too. I have these on my car and they make a difference, and I'd also want such a critical component to have a degree of extra protection (awaits flaming from those who point out why braided hoses can actually mask issues and so could be potential more risky).

I did originally have M4 up front and Mono Mini at the rear on a small rotor. However, even with bled brakes and new pads this combo simply didn't work on some of the faster descents. It isn't much fun going downhill with the rear simply not slowing you down 😮

Called Hope and had a knowledgeable conversation with a chap there - excellent customer service IMHO to be able to talk directly to someone like this. In the end I decided to upgrade the rear rotor to a larger size and to put braided Tech M4 there too. Much improvement.

My only niggle with the Hope's (and this might be the case with others - I don't know) is that they need to be worked up to temperature to really make a bite. After a decent downhill section (XC downhill, not DH DH) the brakes really come to life. If only they could be that good when cold.

SpokesCycles - Member

Jeremy- I've felt your brakes. They feel like everyone elses- vague and weak. The only good Hopes I've ever felt are ollie's old M4s and he had to upgrade them to goodridge hoses and so on.

More rubbish - you are confusing lever feel with power - and you have never ridden either of my solos - both of which have hope minis with instant single finger locking.

Next time you are up this way have a shot on them - you will be suprised

I'd repeat my usual behaviour. After trying various hydraulics, I've given up on them, and now use BB7s.

The Ashima hydraulic looks ok though - it doesn't use a piston so there's nothing to get stck.

I'm guessing spokes cycles doesn't sell hope brakes!
Oh, they sell aviod. Enough said really.

I'm very happy with my Formula Oro K18's so I would probably buy a set of the new Formula RX's or if money was no object then a set of Formula R1's

The RX's can be had for around £200 for a set including discs on Ebay from France

The Ashima PCBs look well interesting, and as someone above said, pistonless, so one less thing to go wrong. I ordered some back in january and got fed up with waiting. Projected stock date for UK is now mid to late june.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43121659@N06/4619156354/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43121659@N06/4618543879/

[i]As for your experience with hopes - you are the only person that that happens to[/i]

Nope, everyone I ride with who used to use Hopes has had issues. No one I regularly ride with uses them any more