[Closed] If you thought mandatory full facers were a pain for UKGE...

I'm sure that's great and all that, but how does this actually help me or my family?
If i'm dead, i don't think they are exactly going to be over the moon with £10.5k, and considering a broken leg would probably prevent me working for say at least 3 months £2k is pretty lame......

Or in my case I'm already covered for over 10x that if I were to Cark it riding my bike through my life insurance and I'd not be out of pocket if I broke my leg anyway. So the cover is useless for me and wouldn't prevent me sueing the organisers in the event that they'd been negligent which led to the injury in the 1st place.

I'm sure that's great and all that, but how does this actually help me or my family?

If i'm dead, i don't think they are exactly going to be over the moon with £10.5k, and considering a broken leg would probably prevent me working for say at least 3 months £2k is pretty lame......

I'm with you there. The level of cover is minuscule in comparison with the financial impact of one of the injuries.

They will also be getting a % commission for every policy sold through their recommended broker...

This is the kicker, isn't it. And the newly appointed riders' representative works for the preferred supplier .

There is a lot of talk on the FB page about how it helps you if your out of work etc. However as shown above, the basic cover level doesnt even include loss of earnings.

Also, SP previously stated BC gold licence would cover you, then had to retract once he was told it was only applicable to BC events. How can you be involved in the sport that closely for that long and not know that basic fact!

They will also be getting a % commission for every policy sold through their recommended broker...

Apparently they recommend them as its 'easier to confirm you have the right cover' even tho they dont seem to know what the right cover is and dont legally have the right to ask them anyway. Apparently (again another FB comment/response hidden amongst other comments) you're required to bring the actual letter of cover to sign-on if you use another insurer, so they can check it to see you have the right cover... not that they can tell you what the right level of cover is.... Farse anyone?

SP previously stated BC gold licence would cover you, then had to retract once he was told it was only applicable to BC events. How can you be involved in the sport that closely for that long and not know that basic fact!

More like how can you not be arsed to read BC's own website. It took me about 2 minutes to find this:

[b]Personal Accident Insurance - the details[/b]
[i]...includes non-competitive, social, leisure and utility cycling and competitive cycling in events held under the auspices of British Cycling. Cover is also provided whilst participating in competitive events held under the auspices of other cycling organisations whose rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) are acceptable to British Cycling.[/i]

like most of the BC rules and regs ^^^ thats quite misleading, as I understand it UKGE are still using the same event safety guidelines that BC insisted upon for the previous seasons,

BC have since said it wont be covered

But why should bc's website be any more accurate than [url= http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/race-info/rules/ ]UKGE's[/url] dragon

Section 5, safety equipment...

C. A full face helmet is NOT compulsory, but it is highly recommended. - See more at: http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/race-info/rules/#.dpuf

I'll now go ready my self to be shot down when it transpires I missed the "oh bugger it, wear what you like " conclusion to that.

^^^ that does say 2014 rules at the top, but they should update it!

Email from Enduro1 series;

As many of you are aware the question of riders having to take out personal race insurance is now becoming a reality. I am looking into this matter as I agree it needs to be done as unfortunately with British Cycling now not supporting Enduro the emphasis is now on race organises having to obtain their own public liability insurance which covers them and not the competitors for accidents.

[b]Unfortunately in this litigious society too many riders are now injuring themselves and then suing the race organisers insurance company despite the fact they have willingly taken part in a sport and race format that is considered dangerous and without making sure they are covered by their own personal accident cover for loss of earnings.[/b] If this continues then the simple truth is that we organises will not be able to obtain insurance and therefore there will be no more races as the amount of income derived from insuring us is minuscule compared to potential payouts for insurance companies.

I will only be opening entries once I have looked into all possibilities and the costs to the competitor.

Anyone know of an enduro race organiser being sued in the UK? If not, it's irrelevant. BC is gone, it's something that is no longer a cost to the organisers so they had better amend their prices to suit.

It does reek of 'paedeatrician has paedo graffiti sprayed on his door' stories, treated as gospel, but never happened. I've never heard of a rider suing an organiser and you'd think it would be major news on all the obvious cycling sites. Anyone seen owt?

2011 a Canadian cyclist sued a race organiser for $20 million when he sustained injuries in the event, don't know how it ended but it was in the news at the time.

It comes up on Google as one of the first results.

There was a woman in the US who sued a "Super D" race organiser recently. That's the best I can do you...
[url= http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/12/fallen_tree_causes_portland_mo.html ]http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/12/fallen_tree_causes_portland_mo.html[/url]

Anyway, the man has spoken (on FB)...

Firstly I'm sorry some of you are upset by the "Insurance" requirement for 2015, there is no going back on this.
We will however make it more clear as to the Exact requirement of the Insurance, no later than Monday, sorry for the confusion.
Since we announced this, there have been some great comments on here, as usual, some have made us look even harder at Insurance. One comment in particular made Us go away and check the BC members handbook, we found out that unless the event is sanctioned by BC your Insurance cover is Nul and void.
Your BC Gold, Silver membership and race license is now nul & void if you race Enduro in the UK. This is a very sad day for Me as I have always believed and trusted in the Governing body of my chosen sport.
The Insurance company inform me there have been a large number of enquiries regarding cover, I hope this has put peoples minds at ease?
Please go away and enjoy your weekends riding

Your BC Gold, Silver membership and race license is now nul & void if you race Enduro in the UK.

Are you willing to personally under write an event in case of a negligent litigation against it ,on the basis that....'well no one has done it (that I am aware of) before in this country?'
That's what you're expecting the organiser to do...
[url= http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2014/12/broad_liability_waivers_are_un.html ]Also[/url]

That's what you're expecting the organiser to do...

awaits minienduro email saying the same thing

So your forfeit your membership of BC by racing enduro?
I though you'd just not be covered by the insurance for that event?

I think this is miss leading as I'm sure as you say it only means your BC insurance doesn't cover you for the event, see below for organisations where you are.

[i]The following organisations promote competitive events under rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) that are acceptable to British Cycling(6):
Scottish Cycling (Scottish Cyclists’ Union)
Welsh Cycling (Welsh Cycling Union)
Cycling Time Trials (CTT)
BSCA (British Schools Cycling Association)
BUCS (British Universities & Colleges Sport)
UCI affiliated National Governing Bodies[/i]

When BC washed it's hands of enduro (and this was on the cards pretty much from day 1) this was the inevitable outcome.
No one seems quite so bothered about them rescinding insurance cover for uplift days....which is partly the reason why a 1/3rd of the top 25 wc dh'ers come from the uk.

There's any number of possibilities for the organiser/event insurer getting claimed against because of a rider's accident but not directly by the rider - most obviously as a result of ambulance chasers becoming involved or if some other body stumps up for the costs incurred and seeks to recoup.

Sadly, I think the insurance just needs to be accepted unless someone has a brilliant method of shutting down the entire personal injury claim industry - and note that there's been mutterings over the last few years of having the costs of air ambulances and seach/rescue type operations for people engaged in mountain and outdoor pursuits in the UK charged to the person rescued although they've come to nothing so far. After reading into the insurance a bit and discovering that depending what you buy it might cover you for all riding and not just races, I'm considering this anyway even though I'm not playing UKGE this year...

How long before we hear of impoverished MTBers on their poverty 26'ers deliberately rear ending trees to fund shiney new bikes? (joke!)

wrecker - Member

So your forfeit your membership of BC by racing enduro?
I though you'd just not be covered by the insurance for that event?

I just posted on their facebook, but, I reckon it's a non-issue... It looks like it goes back to all that UCI rule 1.2.019 madness

"No licence holder may participate in an event that has not been included on a national, continental or world calendar or that has not been recognised by a national federation, a continental confederation or the UCI"

BC have to implement UCI rules, but the UCI themselves have put a moratorium on that particular rule. If I'm right, then it's on the rulebooks but not enforced. I don't have a BC licence any more so I can't really chase this but if you've got a licence and you're concerned, drop 'em a line, I think it'll be fine.

dragon - Member

So your forfeit your membership of BC by racing enduro?
I though you'd just not be covered by the insurance for that event?

I think this is miss leading as I'm sure as you say it only means your BC insurance doesn't cover you for the event, see below for organisations where you are.

The following organisations promote competitive events under rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) that are acceptable to British Cycling(6):
Scottish Cycling (Scottish Cyclists’ Union)
Welsh Cycling (Welsh Cycling Union)
Cycling Time Trials (CTT)
BSCA (British Schools Cycling Association)
BUCS (British Universities & Colleges Sport)
UCI affiliated National Governing Bodies

... so BC basically raises the finger to mountain biking? Nice to know. So glad I didn't renew my membership this year.

Why don't UKGE go down the route of LVRC, have gone it would make life easier for everyone i.e. you need to become a member of LVRC to race and then LVRC take out insurance. TBH pretty similar to BC really.

Please go away

Well I never!!1!!

It's still not clear why they feel this is necessary, 3rd party cover is provided anyway, this is personal accident cover which is nice but it doesn't provide any cover to the organisers and doesn't prevent riders seeking to recover damages against the organisers. I could see that maybe it's a requirement of their 3rd party insurance, but at the moment there is no reason and very little benefit to this.

To many people it's as relevant as saying you've got to turn up in a vw T5 and here's our preferred supplier, except most enduro competitors appear to have one anyway.

So your forfeit your membership of BC by racing enduro?
I though you'd just not be covered by the insurance for that event?

Of course not, its just lazy language, in line with the explanation of the insurance situation.

Rorschach - Member

Are you willing to personally under write an event in case of a negligent litigation against it ,on the basis that....'well no one has done it (that I am aware of) before in this country?'
That's what you're expecting the organiser to do...

Nup. Steve's been totally clear, this is personal cover only, it doesn't replace the organiser's insurance- they still have all of their liability cover in place exactly as before for the series

I'm struggling to see the point aswell ?
You have an accident and claim on your personal accident policy. As sure as night follows day, if your insurers think negligence was involved, their going to try and get their money back from the race organisers.
It might even make a claim even more likely. Without PA I'd just suck it up incase of an accident. After paying a premium I'd probably make a claim, starting the whole claim and counter claim ball rolling.

Hope Parr reads your comment Taxi25, because the same goes for me and I'm sure lots of others too.

More insurance means more of the "sue culture" that he's afraid of.

Dragon Parr wants to set up am enduro federation to do just that but not able to put in place this year

Mondraker gravity rally canceled this year too, not sure if thats an insurance issue ?

Scottish Enduro Series have confirmed no personal insurance requirement. Puts paid to any nonsense about this now being a practical requirement rather than the organiser's choice I think.

^^

Do they not have mates in the insurance business?

^ Lulz! ^

@kimbers - The Mondraker Exmoor enduro is not on this year as the National Trust estate has new management so the organisers are given them time to settle in according to their Facebook page. They hope to have it back in 2016 so fingers crossed

The director of the insurance co is now putting his oar in on FB - so far it's enough to make sure I never deal with that company

Why do we need insurance? Last year I raced and even though enduro was covered by BC i never thought I had PI cover just because I entered and I wouldn't even have thought of it.

Why do we need PI insurance now?

That's the million dollar question, and they still haven't answered it.

How much for a hand ? I broke my 5th metacarpal on stage 2 of the last ukge

And how much for a gash in your head picking up a curry

I bet if I takes the insurance out I won't injury myself at all this year, I think thats good

Nah, you'll just **** ligaments and the like instead as they don't seem to be covered

I broke my wrist at an Enduro race last year and smashed my knee up at another. I also wonder what I should get....

I posted this on the Facebook thread:

This might seem an off the wall suggestion but has anyone considered speaking to British Eventing (the horse thing!) Their sport is far more dangerous than enduro (over a dozen deaths in the last decade), with large courses, partially taped, and spectators wandering about. And horses being random! Find out what cover they provide and what they expect of the riders. I believe they rely heavily on people signing disclaimers! http://www.britisheventing.com

And to add to that, I've been on quite a lot of horse riding holidays, where you sign a disclaimer accepting the risk and waiving your right to claim damages in the case of an accident.

I'd imagine talking sense like that would get you either ignored or deleted...

I broke my wrist at an Enduro race last year and smashed my knee up at another. I also wonder what I should get

Skills training 😉

Junkyard - lazarus
Skills training

I actually booked a course today!

[quote=chiefgrooveguru ] I've been on quite a lot of horse riding holidays, where you sign a disclaimer accepting the risk and waiving your right to claim damages in the case of an accident.Not worth the paper it's written on.