[Closed] I Hate Cotic...

good question.....

I'm hoping the new models will see a resurgent market in 2nd hand older models now as I can't stretch to new but I've always wanted one.

MetalHeart - if 16" I can offer 60 quid (all I have). Please be desperate and mat's have a deal!

saw one in the flesh yesterday, you need one

Sorry Hairy, apart from anything else a medium is 17.5".

Normally go for around
£300 if in good nick.What colour is your medium?

3

r/dog: Its probably better that I haven't seen it...

JGG its black. Its in pretty good nick, nothing serious, just the usual scuff marks from use...

most recent photo:
[url= http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/3039200406_8fa06e7d22.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/3039200406_8fa06e7d22.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Ah - but the new ones don't come in custard!

Not so keen on the gussets (but I guess there's no choice) nor the new logo - all a bit Ragley for me!

New looks pretty much like the old one to me. Whats changed?

Why not get your powder coated orange?

I genuinely don't understand why it's £430 when an On-One steal frame is somewhere around £140(summer)-£215(456). Aren't they both online sellers? Factory to door dealers?, with no wholesalers?. what's the difference that warrents £200 ????

Summer Season is plain gauge cromoloy! Soul is 853 steel, which is a lot more expensive, and less people can work with it. That's why the Soul's so much lighter than the On Ones. It's like asking why titanium is more expensive than aluminium.

I thought steal was relatively easy to work with? what's the difference?

I accept that Ti and aluminium might be/are difficult to work with, but steal is steal of different gauges, isn't it?

Nope not really, 853 is a different alloy to the other Reynolds tubing types, and to plain old chromoly or DN6 (which is identical to one of the less pricy Reynolds tubesets.

You'll generally pay about £200 extra for an 853 frame over a 525, and it has a strength to weight ratio similar to Ti.

and it is Steel 😉

If you want to ask "Why is this so expensive" look at the new Orange R8 😯

Machining costs more for 853 tubing i believe - as it is harder and wears the cutting stuff more. Although i don't know how much this would affect the cost of mass produced frames, just handbuilt ones that they use files and wot not. This might all be bolloxx thou, i'm sure someone will be along to tell me i'm an idiot. 😆

Pouring in all the awesome is time consuming too.

Northwind - Member

Pouring in all the awesome is time consuming too.

lol, but surely they need to beat it into the tubes (so it sticks)

Only Chuck Norris would be able to beat that amount of awesome into 853 with a stick, i guess that's why it's so expensive, Chuck ain't cheap.

Spoke to Cotic at the Cycle show and apart from being 853 (bust 4 forks in strength testing before the frame went) the finish of the Soul (paint, graphics) is far above the On-one. This costs too. I have a slot In-bred and although I love riding it I know that it's what would be described in the roadie world as a "gas piper".

I genuinely don't understand why it's £430 when an On-One steal frame is somewhere around £140

I haven't ridden a Mongbred in any serious way so I couldn't offer you a comparison on the handling differences, although someone that I know who owns both claims that the Cotic is sweeter, "sprinkled with fairy dust" I believe he said.
I can however offer a critique in terms of aesthetics as the Soul is a beautifully crafted piece of work with a very high quality paint finish, and really sweet drop outs and stays, whereas the Mongers look like the result of a year 9 metalwork project which have been finished with Tesco Value Tippex.

HTH.

Horses for courses I guess - On-One is aiming at a particular price point and selling by the truckload; Cotic is aiming slightly higher, and I think has done so for quite some time.

Well, it has been a couple of years since I've been through this, so here it is again:

There are lot's of costs involved in using 853, starting with the tubing itself as it's an awful lot stronger than cromo (about 40% stronger) and it air hardens after welding so the welds perform better. All this means I can build a really tough frame for not much weight. The new Soul can take 140mm forks, and yet I'd say at a conservative estimate it's 1lb lighter than a 456 and 2lbs lighter than a Summer Season. It's the lightest long travel steel frame available. It is hard to work with, and you do get charged more for that. The factory wears out reaming and mitring tools more quickly. We also specify certain weld procedures to ensure better quality, but this costs too. The paint finish is a 4 stage process. We include a Hope seat QR, shipping and a chainstay protector in the price. We aren't just an online seller - we have about 15 dealers all of whom can offer build ups, demo rides and servicing which are all things we as a direct seller couldn't. We're about 50/50 dealer/direct sales these days.

And we pour a lot of awesome into them too 😉

I have to say, I'm unsure why I paid the same money for a pig-ugly Pace RC305 in beer-can metal when I could have had one of those. I'm not going to buy one now, but they are lovely. 🙂

I'll chip in with my usual Cy-adoration: I ride a Simple, which has the same geometry as a Soul, and it is, frankly, the best hardtail I've ever ridden, probably that I ever will ride.

I can see the run up to Christmas being expensive now that Cy has released the new Soul... don't think I've ever been as happy on a hardtail as I was on my Soul - until the frame broke; Cy happily replaced it with a BFe, which was fun but overkill for my riding!

I have always liked them but having spoken to CY at the bike show a few years ago I am more of a BFE size of chap!! Never floated my boat as much the BFE but its always there maybe....!

Good to see a replaceable gear hanger as well. I know steel hangers can be bent back and all that, but ive always wondered why they arent fitted to steel frames as its a whole lot easier to bolt on a new one.

Sweet frame, shame i cant afford one! 😕

cy, id love a soul. they look fantastic and on the odd go ive had they ride really nice. your explanation sounds justified to me but just to be a little pedantic, isnt the spooky horror taxi about 3/4lb lighter than a soul and fit for long forks? twice the price mind, but still might upset your claim for the lightest long travel steel hardtail i guess.

cotics rock. well worth every penny imho. 3 years on the same frame(soul), no desire to change (poss a soda in a different set up...) and its seen me through swapping bits, various forks, upgrades and never rides poorly. i genuinely look forward to getting on it every time. it is the frame id been waiting for. all that pleasure and versatility plus peace of mind in the frame dep is value for money. now wheres my t shirt cy?

the Soul is a beautifully crafted piece of work with a very high quality paint finish

metalheart - how about i have a go on your soul once built up again - i'd love to sample fairy dust 😀

your spasmodic pedalling action, best compared to that of a threshing machine doing butterfly in a jacuzzi, has resulted in your wearing all the paint off your chainstays...

😳

Studio shots of the Soul are up: http://cotic.co.uk/product/soul

[img] [/img]

isnt the spooky horror taxi about 3/4lb lighter than a soul and fit for long forks?

Have they passed CEN testing?

Anyone know of a dealer in either the Bracknell or Ipswich area? I really do quite fancy one of them to replace the stumpjumper.

For the record, I've just got an inbred and its ace.

Inbreds are good, but you do need to factor in the cost of a respray as the paint is very thin

I have to say that my soul out of the box was one of the nicest frames i've ever seen. All of it, the finish the threads, the fit everything was stunning well made.
I brought through my LBS, and everyone there had to have a very good fettle and there was a lot of chin rubbing going on. impressive.

But back to the original poster, looking at the picture of your soul you need a new one.
In a bigger size.

But is it this kind of 'Awesome' that is used >>

brant, no idea!

can i ask a dumb question about cotic frames? when they say that all their frames share the same geo, does that mean that for a given fork length they will have exactly the same angles or that they tweak the angles to suit the travel? dur, fanx!

Inbreds are good, but you do need to factor in the cost of a respray as the paint is very thin

Depends upon whether you care about the paintwork. Mine still looks white after 5 years. Despite being ridden in the rain, the paint hasn't all washed off yet.

😉

I've just replaced my 456 with a Soul ('old' style in custard). The soul is lighter and rides lighter - has a real buzz to it, one I didn't get with the 456. Not to say the 456 was bad - I got away with some crazy stuff and it pi55ed on my old Gringo.

However, I reckon the money is worth paying for a Soul. It rides better for whatever reason (materials/design etc) and the paint is ten times better than the 456. My shorts rubbed the paint off the cable guides on my 456 after one ride!

You pays your money.....

@Brant - from the Cotic site:

"Its first major update in 6 years (it was THAT good the first time) has centred around meeting the new stringent CEN safety regulations that all frames must now comply with." - http://cotic.co.uk/product/soul

... so one would hope that it passed!

I the q re: CEN was for the other frame, not the soul.

@Brant - from the Cotic site:

"Its first major update in 6 years (it was THAT good the first time) has centred around meeting the new stringent CEN safety regulations that all frames must now comply with." - http://cotic.co.uk/product/soul

... so one would hope that it passed!

He was asking about the Spooky Horror Taxi.

For the guy who was looking for Cotic near bracknell try Mountain Trax in Barkham.

Mountain Trax aren't a dealer, we've just sent them the odd frame. If you want a dealer and a demo bike down that way, then you need to head over to Mountain High in Pangbourne.

Didn't realise the claimed weight on the Horror Taxi, although I'd be astounded if it was a) CEN compliant and b) true. That'd be lighter than Kate's new 'cross frame, and that's ****in' light!

Thanks for all the kinds words everyone. Proper lightened my day it has!

the_lecht_rocks - Member

metalheart - how about i have a go on your soul once built up again - i'd love to sample fairy dust

As long as you take your ti456 (and we coordinate pedals too)

MetalHeart - Member

As long as you take your ti456 (and we coordinate pedals too)

good idea - riding tomorrow ?

Speshpaul - Member

But back to the original poster, looking at the picture of your soul you need a new one.
In a bigger size.

Funnily enough I disagree. It is just the right size. As advised personally by Cy/Paul at the time (layback seatpin & 90mm stem). A bigger frame would be less chuckable and hence less fun.

riding tomorrow ?

got a viewing at 12.... so unless you fancy the afternoon.

Also note Soul not built up yet (and Richard not back until next week).

cy - Member

Thanks for all the kinds words everyone. Proper lightened my day it has!

You're welcome. Can I have a tee too? 😀

Ok, starting set my heart on a soul after reading lots of lovely feedback on them, but I'm just wondering whether to justify spending the money on a new one. Anyone out there thinking of selling their "old-style" soul in a medium, then please get in touch, (complete bikes preferably.)... mind you, probably going to be calling in the Eighteeen over the weekend, so might have talked myself into a new one by Monday!! 😀

Thanks all for the education on different steal tubing and paint finish. 🙂

Slight hijack while Cy is around: does anywhere have a demo in a large at the moment?

A layback post and the seat as far back as possible on the rails.
If you're happy then fine:-)

A layback post and the seat as far back as possible on the rails.

Aye, as I said, [i]just[/i] the right size...

I've been down the road of buying a large frame (Motolite) before and to me part of the whole Cotic vibe is the smaller frame than usual being more chuckable and more fun as a consequence. I've done 5 hour rides on it and its been fine.

That photograph is kinda old now and I'm intending running the saddle more central as I've recently moved it forwards on the Chumba (and reduced stem length by 20mm...)

The days of 20" frames and 135mm stems are long gone for me I'm glad to say. Running as small a frame as I can comfortably get away with.

Thanks for your concern though. 😉

My bike is set up like that.Very chucakable but front end get light when climbing steep ascents.