[Closed] I don't remember these at all, Shimano flappy gear change brake levers?

Dual control?

hateful things. some loved them.

My 2004 xt clad bike had these. They were of acquired taste. See also rapid rise rear mechs which for reasons I can't remember were associated with them.

[img] [/img]

These?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/gear-shifters/product/review-shimano-deore-xt-dual-control-shifters-10-39466/

Edit: beaten to it.

I tried them. I liked the design as the hoses/cables exited the levers close to and parallel to the bars, making the carrying of handlebar mounted bags much simpler. They went out with 9-speed though.

I reckon he's right then, they completely passed me by!

Rapid rise is the 'right' way for a rear mech to work. I loved it and gutted it wasn't made the normal way a rear mech should work.

DickBarton - Member
Rapid rise is the 'right' way for a rear mech to work. I loved it and gutted it wasn't made the normal way a rear mech should work.

There's not many that'd agree with you there Dick even if you were correct and it was a more sensible/intuitive way for rear mechs to operate it is so so so so so wrong.

Same with dual control - Shimano do like their white elephants and not actually sorting the things that matter. How many other ridiculous ideas have made production while they still refuse to do the obvious stuff that SRAM pick up and run with?

I'll start with

Dual control
Airlines
Roller brakes
Stupid big loop of cable out the back
Long cage mechs for everything

I didn't realise these were lost from memory already! My 2006 XTR dual controls are still going strong on their second set of brakes. I did switch from rapid rise to conventional travel last time I had to change the rear mech, and I still haven't quite managed to reprogramme myself to push the lever in the opposite direction...

I really liked dual control on my old spesh. Would defo buy if they made them once more.

I loved dual control. Braking and changing down gears with a single squeeze. Great. I'd have them again if they still made them. And I ran Shimano brakes, which I don't.

I have a set of deore dual control leavers. Let me know if anyone is gagging for them , I am willing to give them to a good home for postage.

Yep, I have a set of XTR dual controls on my White 19 ti. Love them too - will be a sad day when I have to drop them... when I eventually upgrade to a bike with probably bigger wheels!

It was during a period where Shimano briefly took leave of their senses, produced these bloody awful things, the abomination of Rapid Rise rear mechs, and also signed the pact, in blood, with the devil that sealed cartridge bearings would never ever have a place in their hubs

CRC and Merlin have had these in stock relatively recently. Good example of technologies not transferring - combined shifter/brakes work well on road but not off road, not so much.

Stick them on a narrow bar from the same period and throw in a Girvin Flexstem and you have instant death.

Rapid rise is the 'right' way for a rear mech to work. I loved it and gutted it wasn't made the normal way a rear mech should work.

There's not many that'd agree with you there Dick even if you were correct and it was a more sensible/intuitive way for rear mechs to operate it is so so so so so wrong

It's a shame that they dropped it IMO but I think probably it wasn't compatible with shadow mechs

is so much more intuitive to use the same lever action to go up the gears on both hands

Not just that but it means the mech spring is helping you do the hardest shift (smaller cog to bigger) so reduces the effort at the lever, thats why RR leant itself well to flappers as it was all light finger work rather than thumb pushing. It does however mean you need a system in good shape and with a strong spring to make that shift as you can't just tease it a bit further to shift like you cna when you've got old gummed up cables or worn mechs.

Never got on with he flappy shifters myself, but I do miss* RR 🙁

*Although 1st gen Alfines shift that way too so I still ahev one bike where the shifting action is reversed, somehow my brain knows as soon as I'm on the bike and I can swap between bikes without getting confused.

Same with the road bike, some Campag, some Shimano, and despite the inner lever (behind brake lever) working opposite on them my brain seems to just [i]know [/i]and shift the right way...weird

I bought a second hand bike that ran a set.

Not that impressed; harder to change gear than using grip shift or triggers and obviously impossible while braking.

Could never get the front to stop dropping the chain off the smaller chain ring either, so ditched the lot for a 1x10 setup which I prefer.

Definitely due a comeback.
Especially for 1x systems, how tidy your handlebar would look

I have a set of Deore dual controls languishing in a spares box somewhere if you want to try them out...

+1 for loving dual control

I really liked them.

It was during a period where Shimano briefly took leave of their senses, produced these bloody awful things, the abomination of Rapid Rise rear mechs

Not that brief, they started doing rapid rise in the mid-90s, and only dropped dual control in about 2009!

Stick them on a narrow bar from the same period and throw in a Girvin Flexstem and you have instant death.

FlexStem?! Dual Controls came out in 2003, they're not exactly ancient history!

I've just taken an XT set off a bike - for cable rather than hydro brakes. Just the job for anyone looking to jump on the flappy 3x9-speed and rim-brakes bandwagon that surely must be parked just round the corner.

I think my SO had a set on one of her bikes at some point. Horrible things as I remember.

Dual Control was ace.
Rapid Rise was awful.

I think it was the association of the two which killed them off - in theory at least DC was supposed to be used with a RR mech. I used mine with a standard mech which personally I found vastly superior.

The later generation XT and XTR ones (once they'd ditched that hydraulic reservoir on top) were superb.

But overall, a rare occasion of Shimano getting it wrong. See also Biopace. 😉

Still got my XTR ones on my pub bike! I loved them when they were on my only bike. Swapping between bikes with normal shifters makes everything feel awkward.

I loved them. I was in the minority though

Im still using them 🙂

But then mountaining biking for me these days is taking the lad to cricket practise on a Friday night or rugby on a sunday morn.

But back in the day I got on well with them on the trail... bought a second hand bike with XTR already fitted, swap them over to the frame they are on now and don't think I've ever done anything more then a spray of GT85 maintenance wise and they are still going strong.... I must have had them 10/11 years ?

I too have a pair lurking in the garage somewhere, XTR ones, if anyone wants them. ST-M966. Complete with calipers.

Here's my 575 in about 2005 with em. I liked the rear shifting, but always thought the front needed too much throw and changed your hand position on the brake lever too much. I seem to recall running the rear Dual-Control with a front Rapid Fire for a while

[img] http://tinyurl.com/y7tug922 [/img]

Oh yeah, and adjusting the rear shifting after years with low normal used to do my head in!

The second generation ones were better than the first

I still run them, they work and I like being able to change gear whilst on my bar ends, yes I run bar ends as well.........on riser bars for full on horror

Had a set of XT on one bike and a set of XTR on another bike. Both bikes had rapid rise too. Sold the bike with the XTs on and gave the XTRs to a mate of mine when he was rebuilding his old racing Parkpre frame.

Only changed from the XTRs when i got a pair of Saint brakes and had to get seperate shifters.

I quite liked the set up and would have them again.

I'm still running rapid rise XTR 9sp rear mech.
Brilliant thing, more intuitive shifting and smoothness back up the block.
The rest of the world is wrong.

yes I run bar ends as well.........on riser bars for full on horror

My mother warned me about people like you.

Rapid Rise was brilliant. My lad now has my mech on his bike.

My old merlin malt 4 had dual control levers. Never really got on with them.

Probably still have them in a box somewhere.

I loved them - had XTR on a Palomino - and I still look our for RR on ebay. PaddyMcG - will have to ping you 😉

??Are mountain bike Dual controls different from 'roadie ones'??

Rapid rise is the 'right' way for a rear mech to work. I loved it and gutted it wasn't made the normal way a rear mech should work.

Agreed, it was ace and worked better than 'normal'. How can any one describe it as an abomination? Once you got your head round the operation it worked better.

Flappy paddles were mince though.

The 1st-gen were a bit wobbly...but I quite liked the 2nd-gen as the change up was a bit more 'snappy' and there was a thumb lever to change down. And the brake lever shape was the new M965/975 design which I still think was Shimano's best:

[img] [/img]

If anyone would like to do a swap on a rapid rise mech I have an XT I absolutely hate. Seriously. email in profile.

I have dual controls on my road bike, I like, it certainly works on that plane. Not sure how happy I would be using it on an MTB brake though.

but I quite liked the 2nd-gen as the change up was a bit more 'snappy' and there was a thumb lever to change down.

There was always a (removable) thumb lever on them.

Im looking for M965 calipers for my M966 dual controls if anyone can help.

I had the first gen XTR ones, I thought they were great!

Im looking for M965 calipers for my M966 dual controls if anyone can help.

I don't believe anything has changed, current calipers should work. Unless you specifically want 'period' parts?

I understand it, the reason Rapid Demise was so maligned was the association with shitty plastic Rapid Rise rear mechs. They often came on BSO's and thus were badly adjusted, fettled or even on the end of a wonky hanger. And with limit screws hitting plastic protrusions, it's not long before it's in your spokes too.

Technically, it's a better system- you have a spring moving the mech towards the larger sprocket, so the pressure of the chain against the side/teeth/ramp can be exactly "correct" thus you are able to get the best shift possible. Additionally, the spring force is constant.

Whereas IRL, with conventional shift the user is likely to exert the wrong pressure and vary it over time. They may not, for example, be exerting the shift force at the right time to align with a ramp.

Dual control I know nowt about.