[Closed] I could pretend this isn't a rant but it is... gnaaaarly enduro muppet

Its nearly as bad as using acronyms instead of typing words people actually understand.

Descending stretch of singletrack at a well known trail centre and aware of catching someone up over the course of about 400m. No look from infront but the definite buzz of some skinny wheels under the control of no doubt some xc trail warrior wannabe. No room for overtaking unless I barge him out of the way so I carry on with said xc dude close enough to my front wheel that I can get past when the opportunity arises . After leaving the section of single track he grunts and sarcastically suggests being so close to the back wheel in front could be off putting to some people. I suggest (not before riding off up the next hill) he could have moved out of the way. So no shout, nowhere for me to pass and he seemingly expects me to ride at walking pace?

I guess it's inevitable but the more trail centre rides I do the more I seem to come across people with zero trail etiquette who think they own the place. Back to the peaks next week I reckon.

So xc trail-I think I own the trail but actually I'm no more than an average rider, p#$$ off and learn some manners. Next time you'll cause an accident although you probably don't give one.

Rant over.

I get how that could be annoying and off putting to some, which is why I wouldn't follow someone I don't know that closely, but me and my mates are quite happy riding like that, giving him the benefit of the doubt he might have not realised he was too close, you mentioned that he didn't shout, but then neither did you, a friendly "would you mind leaving me some room please" might have worked, he might not have even wanted past an was just happy being behind you and not realising he was too close for your comfort.

Not wanting to pee on your chips but just trying an alternative explanation, if your prefer I can get ranty too and tell you about much ruder behaviour I've experienced on the trails?

[quote=Rorschach ]So no shout, nowhere for me to pass and he seemingly expects me to ride at walking pace?

There is of course an alternative to that for you.

2/10 no random caps and punctuation deployed. rant fail.
personally i'd either go quicker in an effort to drop them, or ask them if they want to go by, and if so pull over for two ticks. then i can chase them. why spoil both your runs?

Interesting point amedias. I've always understood that it's the rider behind who is entirely responsible for communicating with the rider in front if they want past and for ensuring their safety if/when they overtake in the same way as it would be with skiing. Worth bearing in mind for the future tho as no harm in a shout backwards.

Is it pudding?
(by the way it was'nt actually me.I was rephrasing his post to show an alternative yet equally valid point of view...I'll mark further posts as such for peoples benefit).

There is of course an alternative to that for you.

Well then you wouldn't be riding at all!

No shout from behind but the definite buzz of some gnaaaarly wheels under the control of no doubt some gnaaaarly enduro wannabe.

Did you look to see how close he is? My flatemate has the loudest wheels in the world and it often sounds like he's right on your tail (including all the other noises) even if he isn't. Although it's never fun to stop when you're in the zone it sounds like your descent was ruined so why not stop and enjoy the rest of it? Seems that might of been a better option?

Oh and the sneering enduro basing isn't very becoming.

AIBU to be hacked off at the following...

No room for overtaking unless I stop and get out of the way

I guess it's inevitable but the more trail centre rides I do the more I seem to come across people with zero trail etiquette who think they own the place.

Yes you are being unreasonable.

If there is no room to overtake and he's been behind you for the best part of half a kilometre then stop being selfish and let him past.

Your last comment i quoted was surely tongue in cheek?!...you talk about other riders thinking they own the trail but cant seen the irony in you wanting to pootle around at your own pace holding other people up?!....sounds very much like you think you own the trail actually.

I had a few fast guys behind me at FoD last week, just pulled over and waved them by...they said thanks and i could then get a clear (and much slower!) run in without anybody around me....easy isnt it?

[quote=amedias ]he might not have even wanted past

His reply would suggest otherwise. The actions of the chap behind could just be unthinking right up to that reply - which implies that the aim was to bully the rider in front into stopping as he clearly didn't actually care about the issue.

The thing is, I'm not the fastest rider on the downhills (and I try not to hold anybody faster up where possible), but still occasionally catch other people up. In which case I'll hang well back or maybe stop and leave a decent gap if I want to go faster.

So why did you spoil your descent for yourself by not pulling over and letting them past?

[quote=whatnobeer ]Well then you wouldn't be riding at all!

Hmm, it seems the alternative isn't as obvious as I thought (and yes I got that Rorschach, and thought it easiest to continue the acting)

[quote=deviant ]If there is no room to overtake and he's been behind you for the best part of half a kilometre then stop being selfish and let him past.

Why is it more selfish for the person in front to want to have an uninterrupted run than for the person behind?

Is it really required to shout if you want past? I'd have thought that if someone has caught up with you it's fairly safe to assume they want through, so why not just let them? I'm not excusing him sitting right on your tail, but surely you'd both have enjoyed the rest of the run more if you'd let him past.

I'll always do my best let people past who are quicker when it's safe to do so and when I know they want past and importantly when they think it's safe to overtake. Just for clarity though not on my wheel for 400m but it took about that to catch up the 40m or so back that he was so rough maths tells me he was about 10% quicker than me so I was hardly pootling. No intention to offend, upset or anything of the sort.

Ah, trail centres......

Hmm, it seems the alternative isn't as obvious as I thought

In which case I'll hang well back or maybe stop and leave a decent gap if I want to go faster.

This isn't what you meant?

Ah,trail centres....on sunny weekends.
(I'm just about to ride through one now to get to the trails....I doubt I'll see a living soul there now).

p#$$ off and learn some manners. Next time you'll cause an accident although you probably don't give one.

His reply would suggest otherwise. The actions of the chap behind could just be unthinking right up to that reply - which implies that the aim was to bully the rider in front into stopping as he clearly didn't actually care about the issue.

On the face of it I agree with you, but as always in these situations we're trying to work it out with less than half the information, we have one side of the story and a bias in reporting. It's entirely possible his reply wasn't sarcastic at all* and only prompted to reply at all because of the original complaint.

*Not calling you a liar OP, just for balance!

As I said, it's not the way I would behave, and there's certainly more polite and friendly ways to deal with this situation and it does [i]sound like[/i] he was a bit of a nobber, but I always like to keep an open mind.

Interesting point amedias. I've always understood that it's the rider behind who is entirely responsible for communicating with the rider in front if they want past and for ensuring their safety if/when they overtake in the same way as it would be with skiing. Worth bearing in mind for the future tho as no harm in a shout backwards.

You're right OP, it would be considered normal for the rider behind to announce themselves, and that's certainly the rule when racing, but there are no 'rules' on the trail, he might be a nobber, he might be shy, he might not know what 'the rules' are so no harm in having options and ways to deal with it for situations like this in future.

All in, i'd probably have been mildly irked to begin with, but I also probably would have spoken up and either asked if he wanted past, or asked for some room, or even just made some friendly banter with the chap, anything that turns the situation round is a win for both of you.

Why is it more selfish for the person in front to want to have an uninterrupted run than for the person behind?

This.

When I was fit I always politely asked if I could pass. If not I would start to sing, loudly. Some awful song like yellow polka dot bikini or agadoo. My singing is bloody awful so usually after ten seconds the person in front would pull over.
its nothing to do with gnar or enduro or being rad or such frivolity. Its sharing the trails so we all have a good time.

I hate trail centres for this reason. So much aggro and bravado, and it's often too busy. Unless people are riding at the exact same pace as you (not too fast, not too slow) they're either getting in your way or harassing you.

Options include chilling TFO or riding somewhere else. I prefer the latter option anyway.

I move over if I hear tyres behind, its annoying when others don't.

I can't be bothered reading all of this but you admit you knew he was behind you and catching you up. Instead of whingeing about it post event couldn't you have simply pulled over and let him or her past? Seems daft to moan about someone else when you could've solved the "issue" immediately yourself.

Why is it more selfish for the person in front to want to have an uninterrupted run than for the person behind?
This.

meh.
Can't be arsed to read all that shit.
Some people ride faster than others.
Some people get offended by it and some people don't.
I've been a passer and a passee.
Neither have ever caused me to suffer from outrage.
Wheel size on the other hand has caused me to fly into an uncontrolable rage for no reason what so ever. 😛

Trail etiquette = if a faster rider has caught you up and you are slowing them down, pull over.

You can enjoy your run without the pressure of someone faster behind, they can enjoy their run without someone slower spoiling their run. Everyone wins.

You let your ego get in the way and spoiled it for both of you.

Fail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

So somebody caught you on a trail. Why does that make him a, "gnaaaarly enduro wannabe" ?

Just because he was riding faster then you, doesn't make him a bad person.

You knew he was behind you, and perhaps passively aggressively stayed in his way to teach him a lesson?

AIBU? WTF? MTFU

You failed, you were scalped, a sign of weakness.
Move over next time please 🙂

I caught a bloke up 4 times down some hill at Afan - Afan's not long, and I'm not fast

Also once followed a rider for about a mile down a long mountain path. There had been 2 of them, then they stopped as a I caught them and the one at the back moved over to let me through. His mate set off in front and again I had to stop loads of times behind him to give me room to ride at my own pace. Could've tried to force past but it was narrow, loose and there were quite big drops at the edges.
In the car park at the bottom his mate (who'd let me through) came over & apologised for him.

There can be no way these riders thought they were going at a decent speed and they were both clearly aware that somebody was repeatedly catching them

It's pretty irritating so I think/hope I'd always move over if somebody had caught me

People catch me up I move over (shout or no shout)...I catch people up expect the same, I hate holding people up and I hate them holding me up.

When Ive made the effort to get to a trail centre then busted a gut to get to the top of a hill I just wanna reap the reward not follow someone slower than me!

Rider behind probably stayed close so all you have to do is slow down a little bit and move over slighly to the side and he goes past, been a passer and passee using this method and only ever had a problem with nervous or newby riders. allays give these riders lots of room

If he didn't shout, he can't expect to be let by. So don't worry.

I'm not sure what so unsafe about someone "following you" especially to the rider in front? If you can't hack the pressure of someone behind you, pull over for 2 sec and let 'em go. That's what i do!

So somebody caught you on a trail. Why does that make him a, "gnaaaarly enduro wannabe" ?

Just because he was riding faster then you, doesn't make him a bad person.

You knew he was behind you, and perhaps passively aggressively stayed in his way to teach him a lesson?

Just what I was thinking, sorry OP.

Is this really worth shouting about on the internet?

Let's cut to the chase 😳
Did having somone chasing your wheel down improve your Strava time on that segment?

is this going the way you hoped OP?

No

It's so easy to let a faster rider past I don't understand why you wouldn't.

You know old people with a tartan trolley and support stockings and a zimmer frame and a hearing aid and thick glasses and hairy warts and scotty dog and beige anoraks shoes out the back of the Daily Mail weekend magazine and that smell of wee and are always in the way?

That's you that is.

It's so easy to let a faster rider past I don't understand why you wouldn't.

I've had people clearly deliberately chase me down who have been at the start of a run as I've trundled past - they can piss-off! Had some guy do it me 3 times in one ride :/

Have also had people try to do it and get a bit out of their depth 🙂

It's annoying if you do let them pass and then have no trouble keeping up with them - often easier to follow then lead; like driving at night.

I don't quite follow the first bit, but if it's people being dicks after you've passed them then fair enough.

I'm thinking more of people who appear behind you out of nowhere, so clearly riding faster.

Is there etiquette?
Been caught up put me head down and gapped the catcher. That's all bets off in my book.

As said above I love following my mate fairly close, or anyone that's reasonable quick, but I wouldn't push past or want them to get our the way unless I feel I'm massively faster; which israrely the case. I'll not try to be a dick and pass or shout arrogantly that I want past.

Two sides to each story therefore rarely a need to rant

Rather than block their passage, why not just toss yourself off?

thestabiliser
You know old people with a tartan trolley and support stockings and a zimmer frame and a hearing aid and thick glasses and hairy warts and scotty dog and beige anoraks shoes out the back of the Daily Mail weekend magazine and that smell of wee and are always in the way?

That's you that is.

wow, i'm 20 years younger, just like that! #oldskoolcomedyphrases

I dislike people on my wheel as much as I dislike being on the wheel of another. In either situation I pull over and wait for some space.

Without wanting to sound like a hippy, I don't consider the bit of trail that I'm on as being my own, but I do consider the enjoyment of my own ride as being my down to me.

Stop riding so slowly?

You stop - he passes, both interrupted but both enjoy rest of run.

You don't stop (you're a dick), you stress for whole run, he has crap run riding at pace of old woman.

Pretty sure you're the dick here. Just to reiterate.

I've always made a point of actively asking anyone who catches me if they want to pass. A quick "do you and to squeeze by mate" makes it a pleasant, easy manoeuvre that I'm in control of but the other rider knows I'm aware.

I'd never "shout" to get past at a trail centre, I'd consider that pretty rude. Mostly if I come up behind someone slower I pull over for a bit and let them get ahead. If some one catches me, I just pull over, I wouldn't want to spoil both our enjoyment by holding them up

Should have let the faster rider through - think of it like racing: if you're passing give a quick shout & a thanks after, but to hold someone up deliberately? Rather petty & selfish.

A bit like sitting in the outside lane & refusing to move back once you've completed you're overtaking manoeuvre...

I will give it a couple of seconds and then ask if the person behind wants to go past. Then follow them! Nothing quite like following someone a bit faster to get you to realise that line x or line y is possible when you might have plumped for slower line z on your own.
This i do for racing as well as busy trails/trailcentres. i can't imagine it costs me more than a couple of seconds, which hopefully i get back pushing a bit harder chasing the faster rider and seeing that it is possible to ride this or that bit a bit quicker on this or that line. Then everybody's happy.

I will give it a couple of seconds and then ask if the person behind wants to go past. Then follow them! Nothing quite like following someone a bit faster to get you to realise that line x or line y is possible when you might have plumped for slower line z on your own.

Sound advice, following a faster rider can be hugely beneficial.

Best motorcycle ride I ever had was following a mate who is a motorcycle paramedic and has completed the police motorcycle training course....ive never ridden so fast and yet so safely before, his forward vision and planning was awesome and his road positioning was perfect. I still try to remember as much of what I learnt that day and implement it into my riding still today.

How was he gnaaaarly? I see no gnar in this incedent.

I caught a slower group yesterday so backed off and gave them a gap. Out of nowhere 5 goobers on Halfords bikes (at least one of whom was sporting a baseball cap on backwards) pushed past me somewhat brusquely. So, more waiting and some indignation.

About an hour later I caught the goobers on a DH section and was feeling less charitable ......passed them like a Eurofighter passing some pigeons. Fair play to them, they all shouted encouragement, "go on lad" f***ing right" etc etc which was nice. Even the guy I berated for not wearing a helmet. All except the leader who heard his mate shouting, looked back, saw me and tried to pull away, pedaling furiously. Ahhhh the thrill of the hunt 😈

You were both at a trail centre.

It's always easier to follow somebody, next time pull over then give chase and pile the pressure on, watch the mistakes begin... Or not

I love that vid 🙂

Yep bad form for you not pulling over. I tend to pass lots of people at places like afan, very rare to meet some stubborn arse who won't move over. I don't call out immediately as I don't want to surprise or scare the person, if they call back, I tend to say "no rush, when it is safe, I'm having a rest" and then thank them as I go past.

I once had a guy completely refuse to let me past despite polite request and try to race me, on whites I think, quite clear he was on the edge of his abilities, so I let a little gap go and was rewarded to see said numpty go straight over the bars. he was ok. Was so close to saying he should have let me past.

And unless it is a proper steep fast section there is always a safe place to pass, you just stop pedalling and move over....

You were both at a trail centre.

Well spotted Hora. The rest of us almost missed that key detail.

Op which trail centre was this? Degla?

chakaping - Member
You were both at a trail centre.
Well spotted Hora. The rest of us almost missed that key detail.

His point is still valid.

Quite.

Arse so I'm supposed to be watching for people coming from behind as well as in front..whilst still attempting not to crash ...... Now you tell me..,better get one of them little helmet mirrors.

I tend to pull over as I don't kid myself I have any riding ability other than luck and as said by others following a good riders very worthwhile..

DId have a funny experience where I came round a corner behind some new riders and one managed to slide off trail and another slid into a tree....made sure they were alright but was glad hadn't asked them to move over or would have felt I'd have caused the carnage...

Edit no I didn't force them off the track in my haste - I was well back.

My ride was ruined yesterday also. I was slowed down all the way down the bridleway off Grindleton Fell.
Bloody sheep

Speed limits to be enforced at trail centres. Also a helmet traffic light system.

Like skiing should be simple

Responsibility is with the uphill rider - simple

Ditto, if you know someone is behind you and you are slowing them down, just pull over - basic manners

So chose between responsibility and manners. Nothing else required

I once caught a rider at Cannock, and they shouted back "bl**dy hell mate, you on a 29er?" Laughed so hard i very nearly crashed! 😆

I would never really shout at someone to get past, but would wait for them to pull over or if not just follow them down.

There is always somewhere to pull over at trail centres.

Quite, if I caught someone up on a trail I would just chill out and follow them down, if they let me past cool, if they didn't it is still cool.

I would be surprised if they built up some strange fantasy in their head that about enduro gnar warriors chasing them down the trails.

Maybe the op needs to find a hobby he enjoys, hard to believe someone who jumps so quickly into a seething rage at something so trivial is having fun.

Interesting responses, DT78's the ****tyest.

Anyone fgot a link to that video of the French? rider barging past folk on a downhill?

Show me the gnaaaaar.

This is simple case of being a decent person and/or 'trail management'.

There are always exceptions but.....don't set off on a section straight after some other person - then you are less likely to have an impact on yours or their section. Most sections at centres are fairly short so its hardly a hardship....why should someone have to pull over for you if they are focusing in on completing an important section to them?

Be tolerant.

🙁 Am disappoint mine is'nt the ****tiest.

.....don't set off on a section straight after some other person - then you are less likely to have an impact on yours or their section.

And without so much as a cursory glance, some bloke and his bird rides straight pass and straight down the stretch of trail you've been waiting to clear. 😈

'on your left mate'

or

'track'

His point is still valid.

It may be, but I've no idea what it is.

As others have said, it's basic good manners to pull in and let the faster rider past.
It doesn't make you less manly, but holding someone up for ages makes you look like a bit of a weeman.

Yes, the person behind can wait and let a gap build up. I've done this once on a long TC descent (Golspie) but you wait for ages several times on a run, each time quickly catching the knobber who resolutely refuses to pull over.

bigrich - Member
'on your left mate'

or

'track

If you shout 'track' at me you'll be in for the slowest ride of your life. 😉

We shouldnt feed Chakaping