pros and cons?
Constantly fiddling with pad clearance on cable discs = not fit for purpose
Constantly fiddling with pad clearance on cable discs = not fit for purpose
Adjusting half a turn every couple of rides on my Klampers = totally fine.
I run cable discs on 3 bikes and hydraulics on 2...all of them stop me when needed.
Tbh I've had less reliability issues over the years with cables compared to hydraulics. Good quality cable discs are (surprise surprise) good stoppers.
Problem is most people's experience of them is of cheaper ones on low end bikes, which funnily enough are a bit shit.
Well, having witnessed a newbie with poorly adjusted cable brakes nearly kill herself (seriously) when her TRP Spyres "failed", I've resolved to never let them anywhere near one of my bikes*...
Spyres aren't cheap but require considerable dexterity (or a stupidly long Allen key) to adjust the inner pad so not the sort of running repair you can do on a ride when you notice the performance dropping off.
*Not quite true as I still have an old Kona Jake with the same brakes but don't dare ride it anywhere with hills anymore (which basically means its not been ridden for at least 18 months)
TBH, little difference in operation. Well-adjusted cable stoppers with compressionless outer are really good. The only reason I went hydro on my VN Amazon was that I was constantly swapping wheels and the minor differences in hub specs required a bit more fiddling with cables than with hydraulic. Other than those times, they didn't need adjusted much, if at all.
This was the subject of raging debates 20 years ago. Well-sorted cable brakes (Avid BB7, for example) work fine, but you need good quality cables and they need to be adjusted regularly. Good quality hydros (that are properly bled) do not suffer from cable drag and are self adjusting. Once they're set up, they should need no maintenance between pad changes, but you need to learn how to bleed them if you do your own maintenance. Hydros for me every time.
I can see that cable disc brakes like Avids or Hayes would be incident prevention resistant if you went touring around the world. Levers and cables would be obtainable everywhere you go if you smash them.
I've bought new hydraulics that i struggled to get fitting olives for to fit internally on day one. If you damage a hydraulic in a developing country you may have to take them off and throw them, and fit a locally sourcable system.
In China you're okay with Shimano and Meroca, maybe Magura. But forget Hope, Hayes, TRP.
There is the middle ground of cable actuated hydraulic brakes, earlier in the year i fitted a set of TRP HY/RD's to my all road bike to replace a set of mini v's, I used decent compressionless outers and I have been very impressed with their performance. If you don't mind ordering from overseas then they can be picked up at a reasonable price, I got mine from an ebay seller in Taiwan for £75 and they arrived in less than a week.
Aside from situations like touring where maintenance / availability of parts could be an issue I cannot fathom why you’d bother with cable discs.
I replaced the trip spyres on my gravel bike, they were never better than OK, with Juin Tech R1 cable operative hydraulics. These have been very good and faultless for maybe 3 years now, although the stick pads were best binned, same with the Spyres actually.
Ive met two people using cable discs on my tour. One was for simplicity and easy repai, the other had drop bars and did it to avoid buying new levers.
Cable brakes are fine and I did run some for a while and never had to constantly fiddle with them or found them lacking in power.
I have hopes and carry a seal kit when touring. I have carried a spare hose and fittings as well in the past but didn't bother this time
Aside from situations like touring where maintenance / availability of parts could be an issue I cannot fathom why you’d bother with cable discs.
When hydraulics go wrong it's often expensive and time consuming requiring bespoke parts
When cables need maintainance its generally little.more than a few seconds with a 3/4mm hex key. If it is -its a new widely obtainable.cable.
Even the shit cable brakes are quite good now. I have promax cables on my tourer. Wife has Hayes both work quite impresively.
My main MTB has hydros mainly as I've never seen a 4 pot cable brake ,;)
I've had BB7s on my commuter for years. I'm 13 1/2 stone (86kg ish) and they are fine. I wouldn't want them on my mountain bike, as I find there's not a much adjustability of lever reach, but I'm definitely not faffing with them every ride.
The BB5s that preceded them were poor though.
I could see why, if you were touring that you'd choose cable over hydro. Makes total sense. On a regular mountain bike that you're using for a few hours on the weekend, then 4-pot hydros are so cheap, reliable and effective, unless you're a retro grouch, cable is totally pointless.
I do hear of people having multi-day rides interrupted by damaged hydro hose connections or failed piston seals. That doesn't happen with cable brakes though you might want a spare inner cable if you're really cautious.
I have hydros on my day-to-day bikes for local riding and cable discs on the bikes I take on longer trips. Main risk for cable discs could be overheating on big descents eg if loaded touring but I've done plenty of that w/o problem.
Well, having witnessed a newbie with poorly adjusted cable brakes nearly kill herself (seriously) when her TRP Spyres “failed”, I’ve resolved to never let them anywhere near one of my bikes*…
They don't just 'fail' unless you've done something daft. I would agree that they need a bit of mechanical understanding to operate and keep in adjustment. But not much, less than tubeless tyres levels of mechanical ability.
I'm not convinced that cable discs are significantly better than v brakes.
I’m not convinced that cable discs are significantly better than v brakes.
Don't you ever ride in the wet?
Don’t you ever ride in the wet?
Frequently.
My Kona Private Jake came with cable discs, never again. They were shite & very expensive to convert to hydraulic on drop bars.
In the early days of discs many tandem riders preferred them as they have no fluid to overheat and boil
Frequently
So it's mostly rose tinted specs then.
Changing pads half way through a ride or riding through a puddle and grabbing the brakes only to find there's little resistance ?
Those were good times. We came home and had findus crispy pancakes for tea.
I’ve never ridden cable discs that I thought were good.
My CAADx winter hack came with BB7s (I think) and they were terrible.
I would agree they’re about as good as v brakes.
So it’s mostly rose tinted specs then.
No, my opinion based on my experience. Stop trying to pick a fight.
Cantis were hopeless in the wet, but I never felt cable discs were so much better than v brakes to outweigh the downsides. Hydros are a different league.
I’m planning to swap my XT four pots for Pauls Klampers.
Hydraulic disc brakes are better than mechanical in every way. Including reliability. You can argue against that, but you would be wrong.
The only reason to go for mechanical is cost.
You have to wonder how much TRP rate their mechanical callipers when they developed a hydro version.
Possibly the best halfway house is the short lived giant conduct, which have you a short cable length and almost all the benefits of hydro with cheaper brifters.
Not picking a fight just providing balance for overreactive hyperbole
It seems that people have forgotten just how bad v brakes were in winter (or only do short rides)
Because cable disks consistently outperform v brakes on all but a dry sunny day.
Hydraulic brakes if you feel you really must stop before you think about stopping but the current crop of quality cable disks can stop you pretty damn quick in all weathers and don't burn through pads in 20-30wet miles
-although the number of weaping/squeeling Shimano piston threads on here..
I never felt cable discs were so much better than v brakes to outweigh the downsides.
And that's what will be half the posts on this one, the set up is the nub of the debate on cable discs. I'm often suprised by how bad OEM cable set ups on new bikes can be and setting them up properly from scratch on my own bikes takes a bit of time. Cable discs just have a small amount of cable pull for the caliper mechanism movement (road 2-piston calipers especially) so they're not that tolerant of misalignment or bad cable route / spec etc.
So many bikes with cable discs would be better if they simply had the next rotor size up (180 F+R on my 29er is ideal)
Hydraulic disc brakes are better than mechanical in every way. Including reliability. You can argue against that, but you would be wrong.
How much time have you spent on properly setup, good quality, mechanical disc brakes?
I'd argue (from my experience) that they can be just as good. And no stupid Shimano wandering bite point issues either.
The only reason to go for mechanical is cost.
I've got some Paul's Klampers, so you're wrong there 😆
It seems that people have forgotten just how bad v brakes were in winter (or only do short rides)
I raced DH on V Brakes. In winter. 😬
Mind you I did have XTR ones 😎
Hydraulic disc brakes are better than mechanical in every way. Including reliability.
The only on-trail accident I had that totally stopped a ride was a crash that pulled the bars around sufficiently to pull the hose from the reservoir on my codes. I would imagine that if you on a multi-day tour that situation would be a total PITA. I think though that lots of these reservations are bourne of individual experience.
I was given an unwanted hybrid bike six months ago and have been using it for commuting. It has cable disc brakes, and the levers are integrated with the two gear shifters (3 x 8 speed) so won't be fitting a spare pair of hydraulics to it.
Can't say I've felt the need to constantly adjust them, have barely touched them other than cleaning them up because previous owner did the classic application of oil.
Think they're Tektro. They're powerful enough for commuting but not MTB. Aside from less power, when coming to a hard stop from speed you can feel the power fluctuate so braking isn't consistent which I definitely don't like!
Or is that one of the symptoms of lack of adjustment!?
I still think Avid BB7’s are good. Not as powerful as sorted hydraulics but more robust.
I have not had any personally for 20+ years - but they were faultless in operation.
I was a very early adopter of disc brakes, such that I had the complex HOPE rear adapter thing in the late '90s, so I have quite a bit of experience of both cable and hydraulic.
I have never had a ride-stopping failure of hydraulic brakes in nearly 25 years.
I have had to execute a controlled crash coming off the Beacons in the wet when my cable brakes simply didn't work any more. Yes it was just a wind in with an allen key to get them going again buy had I not had a grassy bank to hurl myself against I might not be writing this now. I can't think of another example of a life-critical component that just might not work at some point being considered OK.
Whereas I have had hydros overheat and fail once and a seal blow once.
Maybe it depends on the application / implementation / installation.
I put TRP Spyres on my gravel bike when I built it up mainly to keep costs down.. 5 years later and I've felt no need to 'upgrade' - more than enough power to lock the wheels, modulation is fine and don't really touch them once they're set up.
I put TRP Spyres on my gravel bike when I built it up mainly to keep costs down.. 5 years later and I’ve felt no need to ‘upgrade’ – more than enough power to lock the wheels, modulation is fine and don’t really touch them once they’re set up.
I put TRP Spyres on my cross bike when I built it and spent ages optimising the set-up with compressionless housing and 180mm from rotor plus various different pad compounds etc. At best they were okay, pretty good in fact at worst they felt underprowered and faffy and never stayed optimal for longer than a few rides. Over time the internals of the caliper mechanism corroded and filled up with Peak grit, new internals are not available as far as I could tell anyway. Eventually I stuck one of the hybrid TRPs on the front, which was okay.
The single best mod I've ever done to that bike was to fit Shimano GRX hydos - more power, better feel, more consistency. I get that if you're in a situation where in the field fixing is your prime concern then mechanical set-ups make sense, but for everyday riding situations, I can't really see why you'd choose to use them other than for economic reasons.
I also remember caliper brakes and vees and the joys of wearing through two sets of pads in one, wet, Peak District mountain bike ride. Oh, and the rim wear too. No thanks.
Constantly fiddling with pad clearance on cable discs = not fit for purpose
They're no different to rim brakes in my experience. I adjust them maybe once every 500 miles or something, but I'm not too fussy about things working perfectly all the time.
You'll never get the same feel with cables. Hydro are far superior in that respect, but if you can live with them feeling a bit like a traditional cable rim brake they work just fine.
Well, having witnessed a newbie with poorly adjusted cable brakes nearly kill herself (seriously)
I have a bike with v-brakes where once the pads wear to a certain level they can't physically reach the rim, regardless of cable tension. Was an interesting experience to discover this but it's very poor design rather than anything to do with cables.
Pretty sure everything has been said already. Hydro work better. Cables are adequate and have some advantages in their mechanical simplicity.
Hydraulic discs need less adjusting/fiddling, offer more power and better brake feel.
I had Shimano mechanical disc brakes on my old PX London road for years and they were fine. Thousands of miles, pyrenean cols peak summer, lake district, peak district, commuting to work. Only ever had one issue and that was the pads not the actual brakes.
Problem I had in the end was that when the rear is mounted on the chain stay and the open end of the cable outer is pointing up it gets water in and then freezes in winter or gets crudded up with muck.
Don't get me wrong hydraulics are better but mechanical disc are not just shit.
Because cable disks consistently outperform v brakes on all but a dry sunny day.
I don't agree and I ride a bike with vee brakes most days, the only plus with cable discs is that they don't wear out your rims. I found both can need re adjusting on longer wet muddy rides, vee's are plenty powerful and you just need to brakes a fraction earlier to clean the rims.
If like me you're a mechanical ignoramus, cheap Sram cable need the occasional fiddle, but are v fiddlewithable. Got them on my cross bike. Fitted new when the old ones broke and felt no need to upgrade to hydraulic (it is an upgrade, obv), which I'd've had to get the shop to do. So they have their basic place. Why are folks talking about v brakes?
Over time the internals of the caliper mechanism corroded and filled up with Peak grit, new internals are not available as far as I could tell anyway.
I'll agree with this - I know people using them in sandy conditions and they do get gummed up. I've just rebuilt mine for the first time (more for peace of mind than necessity) and, though it was pretty straightforward, it was disappointing you can't get replacements for the captive bearing thingies..
Not picking a fight just providing balance for overreactive hyperbole
It's my opinion. If you disagree that's fine, but please don't present your opinion as fact.
Fwiw I ran Spyres on my road bike and they were OK with careful set up and regular fettling. But they gum up easily, are very sensitive to adjustment, and are not much more powerful than a decent caliper. Hydros are miles better, even if you do get a leaky caliper every now and then.
