Following on from yesterdays thread on a broken Hemlock/Ellsworth/5 Spot, etc..
Just how big a drop do we expect our All Mountain bikes to be able to take before we have to go all Freeride.
To make it fair lets suppose we are dropping to flat and we are talking frames not components as weak components will surely break first.
I want to know if we are thinking the same as the bike designers, or do we expect too much...
Personally I'd expect 3ft to flat easily but a minimum of 5ft into a transition.
I knwo thats what my pitch can take without grumbling. It's certainly the limits of my courage/ability
I'm pretty sure my steel Inbred 567 frame will take a [i]much[/i] bigger drop to flat than I've got the cojones to even think about attempting.
I understand what you're trying to determine, but it's hard to define frame strength by "Drop to Flat".
I mean, drops to flat? It's about teh radz skillz innit.
Danny MacAskill does bigger drops "to flat" on his very lightweight rigid bike than anyone on here could do on their FS rigs I'd wager.
Probably depends on the rider. My 456 has survive me doing many 3-4ft to flat and I land like a sack of spuds.
Why would you want to drop to flat?
why not?
5ft to transition?
i expect an xc bike to manage that...
think the last drop at caddon bank, innerleithen. about 5-6ft with a bit of speed.
i'm happy with that on a carbon ht. or short travel carbon fs (scott scale and spark for reference)
so i'd expect an am bike to go a good chunk bigger...
I said to flat so we can all be clear on what we mean.
My 456 is limited by my skill, not its strentgh.
But how far should a good quality all mountain full suspension bike be able to drop?
I want my all mountain to let me ride literally all the mountain, up, down, sideways.
If I pedal to the top of a DH track (say inners, I expect not to snap a frame giving it some hoon on the way down). Yes its not a downhill specific frame, forks, brakes but although the trail declines I still expect to be able to ride it without changing bikes mid ride.
On the last weekend in my student house a few years back I rode my "all-mountain" bike of the time (has also been raced (badly) in the same config at an NPS XC) an Azonic Sabre with a set of Junior-Ts (7" both ends, weight 43lb, similar to a stinky I guess) off the flat roof to a flat landing in the garden around 12 foot below. Thats the very limit of what I expect from my bike, and to be fair, I would expect the components to fail before the frame (which they did in the case, snapped the square taper bb and ovalised the Atomlab trailpimp DHR rim.
Frame was fine.
A few months previous I snapped the headtube off a 50 quid merlin hardtail badly casing a huuuuuge double. In its defence, this frame had survived multiple runs of fort bill, NPS 4x races, 3 years of almost daily trail abuse and finally, the day before the snap, got crashed into a gate in the peak (enough to break the gate and send me over it) when my rear brake failed.
If a cheapy hardtail like that can survive that sort of abuse why the hell shouldnt a big gnalry "all mountain" frame? 3 foot to flat? seriously? I do that on cheap BMX I ride to the pub on.
(shit quality, but taken on a mobile phone of the time)
I want to be the limit, not the bike.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Specialized test their frames against loads equal to several runs at whistler 5 days a weak for 2 years or something like that?
Dan
It's not normally a single drop or jump that destroys a frame. Even a jey frame can probably handle a number of x-foot drops to flat, but constantly doing it is what will weaken the frame over time and eventually kill it.
Wow! Watched that Danny MacAskill video with an open mouth - it was jaw droppingly good. I don't think I could even manage that on a computer game. Get him on Britain's Got Talent!
they should last 3 years (and 3 megas) without problems doing whatever.
I don't think i ride that hard - certainly no 12ft off a flat roof drops, but I might've (ie manufacturing error maybe?) cracked the frame on my 6" 2006 marin alpine trail and i might have created some fractures in a 2007 marin quake. god knows how I did these. would have thought the 6 " alpine trail could've handled itself at places like forest of dean DH. and god knows why the quake failed.
My new 07 trance probably won't be thrown off more than 3' to flat or 5' to tranny. hope it will hold up to that sort of stuff. mind you distance wise I was hitting redhill 4x at full pelt the other day - mental fun and then was doing the dirt jumps, but that was under 5' to tranny.
As above from Mike and Brant. Depends on so many factors. I broke one of Mikes 'xc/freeride' frames but I was riding dh and doing 6ft+ drops on it non-stop.
Most good 4x race bikes are built far lighter than a typical 'all mountain' bike. This is partly down to the bikes not doing so much mileage, replaced more often and being used on jumps with good landings.
Frames in general are designed to meet the needs of the typical buyer, and most people buying an 'all mountain' bike won't ride it that hard or that often and weight is a big issue.
That's a really difficult question to answer.
Firstly, unless you're riding urban stuff, drops to flat are pretty rare, for the simple reason that they're bloody unpleasant both to the rider and the bike. If they've been built, they'll almost certianly have a tranny, and even most natural stuff has some sort of slope to the landing.
The rider plays a large part - how heavy are they, how smooth? I've done a few 8' to nice steep transition on my Soda, but a) I'm only 10stone, and b) I make sure I'm really smooth.
It also depends how you set the bike up. (especially a full sus). It's harsh botoming out that does the damage, so if you're planning on doing a lot of drops, upping your spring rate and dialling in a bit more compression and rebound damping will be kinder to the bike.
Personally, my "all mountain" (god's but I hate that term) bike is also my FR bike and my DH bike, so it can take a pretty serious battering. It's mostly about what *I* can stick. Biggest I've done is the drop at the end of Clown Shoes in Whistler (16'?). Horrible clunk from the fork, achey ankles, nowt else. I'd certainly expect an average 5" trail/am bike to be able to take 6' to normal tranny on a regular basis, but I would make sure the shock was setup properly so it's bottom out characteristics were correct for that kind of riding.
Not sure we solved much there..
The biggest drop to flat i've done was 5' on an 06 Wolf Ridge and other than a little too much rebound it laughed it off. I can't think of a better way to sort out what we should expect. The problem with factoring in transitions is it all becomes hypothetical.