[Closed] How much of an asset are mtbs for Wales?

Because bike shops are of limited use in Snowdonia?

If I was going somewhere for a weekend I'd make sure my bike worked before I went, I wouldn't spend Saturday waiting for it to be fixed at a LBS in rural Wales, assuming they could fit it in. Consumables, spares and quick fixes maybe, but that won't make enough in august to see you through the quiet months.

Unlike yet another discount waterproofs shop, packed with unsuitably dressed people caught out the the rain.

It'll be interesting to see if Wales gets the same powers as Scotland, if you could relocate your business from say Swindon, further along the M4 to Cardiff, and get better business rates, corporation tax etc.

The comment about tourism above is interesting. Most tourism occurs in the summer and you then get ghost towns in winter.
Welsh trail centres seem to be the place to go if you want to avoid winter gloop so I'm assuming they fare better than other attractions.

The car parks in the summer are PACKED compared with winter. I'm convinced that there are loads of riders who don't go out when it's cold or wet.

opusone - Member
...I've never understood why there are so few bike shops in Snowdonia compared to how well used the area is by bikers.

ok, just thinking out loud here:

There wouldn't be many outdoor shops in B-y-C if they had to survive on the money spent by hardcore climbers, scramblers, padlers, etc. i.e. it's the muggles* that keep the shops going.

(*for want of a better word)

Biking in North Wales is fairly 'serious', there isn't much that's easy, flat, family friendly, whatever. As a direct consequence, there aren't many muggles around looking to buy some shiny, profitable, mtb paraphernalia to make their weekend more enjoyable.

if you want to go for an easy, muggle-friendly walk in North Wales, there's chuffing loads to keep you happy. The same can't be said for muggle-friendly offroad biking.

i'm not sure that visiting geeky enthusiasts like us are all that profitable, we're highly unlikely to turn up for a weekend biking, and head straight to a bike shop for a new pair of tyres...

...I've never understood why there are so few bike shops in Snowdonia compared to how well used the area is by bikers.

I'm local to Afan, lots more people riding than a few years ago. We are considering building a wall. 😀

if you want to go for an easy, muggle-friendly walk in North Wales, there's chuffing loads to keep you happy. The same can't be said for muggle-friendly offroad biking.

Not sure I agree with that. Firstly because I learned to mountain bike in North Wales - main trails on a commuter hybrid fwiw - but also because there are lots of odds and sods about such as the track between capel curig and cwm idwal and the vast amount of forestry bits and bobs.

But also the place is teeming with road bikers these days, and there isn't too much catering for them. If there were, it would most probably also cater for mountain bikers too.

Exactly, odds and sods and bit and bobs. It's all a bit scrappy, and it [i]really[/i] helps to know your way around before you start.

And road biking in north wales? It looks great, but even less enticing for a newbie than the mtb'ing...

Remember, I'm not for one moment suggesting that north wales isn't great for mtb'ing, just that your average punter who'd happily spend hundreds on walking gear before strolling around the paths at the swallow falls, doesn't see the same easy options for an easy cycle-bimble.

Barra brith oysterstrike but let you off as your from London. Good effort doing all that in 3 days. In terms of fun and happiness inducement North wales trails are priceless. In terms of cash no idea. Quieter the better already bursting with climbers and walkers.

As he put it, if you can't make a bike shop work in Betws-y-coed, where can you make it work?

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

When I hang around waiting to be served in my LBS, almost everyone who comes in is wanting one of those things for their BSO or entry level bike, which is usually pretty knackered.

just that your average punter who'd happily spend hundreds on walking gear before strolling around the paths at the swallow falls, doesn't see the same easy options for an easy cycle-bimble.

Aye, I'm going to Llangollen over Easter and without spending ages studying Strava heatmaps there's very little information on trails/routes etc.

I was also wondering how a mountain bike version of Boris bikes could work...Carwyn bikes?

There's loads of easy stuff within North Wales, it's just not spoonfed to you.
The Bifefax guidebook gives you lots of options and there's lots on the web to fill in the gaps.

A sense of adventure helps too, lots of semi-cheeky quiet stuff to link the obvious bits up if you ask/poke around.

As to bike shops/gear shops.
I've bought a lot of gear from Joe Brown's over the years, mostly great value discount stuff.
Same price as online but I can try it on and have it right away.

I try and avoid shops in Betwys.

The new bike shop in Llanberis is a welcome addition and very friendly.
I'd buy a bike from them, or 1868 in Llanrwst.

Never had to use West End or Evolution.

Bought an emergency light from the friendly bloke with the little place on the harbour in Conwy once.
🙂

That's another point - if you already have a huge area to turn into a bike destination as discussed in the Whistler thread, you can plan it, publicise it, and waymark it. Outside of trail centres here it's just the right of way network that's been there for years so it's harder to make as obvious.

Would you want to make it THAT obvious?
It'd spoil the adventure.

There's loads of trail centres if you want to follow waymarkers.

Even the most clueless can download a route or follow a guidebook.
Even walkers have managed it for years.
🙂

The most clueless won't even know the trails are there - so they won't know to go online or to a bookshop for routes.

There was once a plan to provide some waymarking of cross-country (not XC) routes from some trail centres in Scotland. The theory was that it would encourage some riders to explore more than just a wee bit of forest and would be a stepping-stone to folk then discovering and riding their own routes. The idea seemed well intentioned but it never really happened, though some recent DMBinS chat has been about trying to make more of the already-signposted LDPs (like the West Highland Way). It would certainly have a benefit of spreading the tourist spend a bit further afield.

How much of a clue do you need to search for 'my destination + MTB routes'?

There's tons of info regarding all sorts of trails on the official website - routes, info re trail centres, family friendly paths etc.

Having said that, the Purple at Glentrool is a cracker, as per Scotroutes post.
You might be right.
🙂

Can't remember much waymarking though, we used the guidebook/map, I think.

[quote=Rusty Spanner ]How much of a clue do you need to search for 'my destination + MTB routes'?Look at the average level of intelligence displayed on this site......

TBF, it's not just about finding a route, it's about making it a bit easier for the inexperienced to follow. (Yes, then you get into the whole cairning issue)

Maybe something like the trails at Sutton Bank, they are natural trails with occasional signage, or the trails from Dales Bike Centre, you buy one of the maps with a recommended loop. You know that the route is ridable (might need to be pretty fit to clean Fremington Edge 😆 ) but you aren't being led by the hand around them. Both similar to the "stepping stones" mentioned by Scotroutes.

We were out riding in the Dales for most of the weekend and saw just four other mountain bikers, somewhere like Gisburn will have been packed out, it seems most want the easy option.

I see it on here a lot - "[i]going to Scotland at the weekend and looking for some trails to ride - don't want to waste time getting lost, doing hike-a-bike etc[/i]" That's a pretty reasonable attitude if you've little experience and trying to fit in as much riding time as you can but it's missing out what makes each place different. To me, I can go to GT and enjoy it but it's not so different to any other trail centre in a forest. I'd judge it to be a wasted opportunity to drive to Wales and just visit a trail centre but I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean 🙂

Yeah, you're probably right.
🙂

It'd need a hell of a lot of properly joined up thinking though.

We've a good few regular natural routes we've linked up over the years and shared with loads of people - they do require a bit of lateral thought and a liberal interpretation of access legislation.
They're always evolving too, which is fun, but the lack of proper, linked up trails does become a bit of a chore after a while.

I think a Scottish type access system would greatly benefit Wales.

I'm not a local, just a regular visitor.
Would love to here what those who live and work there think.

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

Figuring out which lines are likely to be good trails and which are going to be shit pushing is a bit of an art. And a lot of people won't want to have to get involved.

I think a Scottish type access system would greatly benefit Wales.

I'm not a local, just a regular visitor.
Would love to here what those who live and work there think.

I don't think you'll find many opponents on this particular forum!

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

Certainly my experience of working in a shop. 🙁

In a city, where there are 100x more commuters than MTBers, and they can't fix punctures, service their bikes or fix their gears.

Maybe offer basic bike maintenance courses?

Of course they may be cash rich/time poor in which case dropping their bike off at a shop to get "fixed" for them to pick up in time for the commute home is something that works [b]for them[/b]. A bit awkward for the bike shop as they get unexpected jobs to fit in to their work schedule (assuming they are busy of course).

I'm also wary of the Englandandwales access laws and all those funny pink dotted lines on the OS maps. ****ed if I know what they all mean

They mean that there are actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog. 🙂

actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog

On the evidence of last nights ride some of those actual trails are through bottomless bog 🙂

Edit: that should have been a 😥

They mean that there are actual trails there rather than endless miles of untracked bog.

Not my experience of riding in parts of Wales. The Elan Valley springs to mind...

There can be a difference between the "official right of way" as marked on maps and actual tracks on the ground - try this one http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=325177&Y=503065&A=Y&Z=120 goodness knows what they were thinking at the time. It doesn't help that when the distinction between footpaths and bridleways came in that the local adjudicators came up with different designations for the same track - this BW http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=391574&Y=469695&A=Y&Z=120 changes to a footpath seemingly in the middle of nowhere (it's actually on a parish boundary).

Cross country rights of way weren't "designed" for bikes so you have to accept that some will be fine, others less so. The ones I've done in the Elan Valley (actually that's most of them except for the couple leading SW out of the valley towards Moel Prysgau) have been perfectly ridable.

It'd need a hell of a lot of properly joined up thinking though.

That's what the Welsh Assembly should be coordinating.

You can see the problem when you follow the Taff trail out of Cardiff. It's all decent until you reach the border with Rhondda Cynon Taff council where there's a series of sketchy road crossings.

To find a safer route would require the two councils working together, agreeing on a plan and sorting out who should pay for what. And that's why it'll never get done.

Interesting reading so far.
[dayjob]
Tourism supports 10% of employment in the Welsh economy, year round. It rises to 15% seasonally in certain areas.
North Wales has the highest provision of caravan and camp sites, and Gwynedd runs Pembrokeshire (South West) close for Self-Catering properties and both are far higher than the other Local Authority areas of Wales.
Tourism is the 5th largest contributor to the Welsh economy, and the contribution continues to rise.
There are no statistics currently for MTB use drawn out from overall cycling use as reason for trips, in the same way there isn't for road rides, or triathlons.
The key reason people visit Wales is for the scenery. Being active in the scenery is quite near the top, but as a percentage I believe cycling was around 8% of the reasoning a bit more than fishing and golf. Mostly people visit for walking, or beaches.
The majority of visits are day or short breaks and this has been on the rise since 2012.
I can find out information around returns on specific projects such as the Cognation work in the South, and the North Wales trails work if needed but it's a couple of years out of date now.
Wales is still heavily funded by the EU, and we've just secured £85mn for Tourism.
[/dayjob]

Anecdotally yes there are more cyclists either road or MTB or CX knocking around. Been a slow increase for the last 3-4 years.

New promo funded by Welsh Gov: