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Obviously our sport is full of fads that come and go at the click of a marketing mans fingers. After this year's event I'm feeling mleh and don't think it's something I'd stay up to watch any more. Given the high risk the guys take (Paul Basagoitia may not walk again) how many more events do you think are left?
I know they're slightly improving on the stunts every year, but it's still effectively identical to the year before. Not to mention the hillside must be shrinking every year!
27 of the top 30 news articles on pinkbike are about Rampage, i think it's OTT.
Just watching it now. The first few riders looked pleased to be down safe - sorry to hear there was a serious injury later on. Viewing makes me feel a little bit sick but I guess thats the point. You do feel that doing something new involves taking ++ risk.
It is amazing though.
Where have you heard that Paul B may not walk again? A quick google showed nothing obvious to me.
Every time I see it I am more amazed that anyone can contemplate let alone actually do stuff like that. My main gripe is that SEMENUK SHOULDA WON!
I didn't like the fact that they basically take a hill and change it completely from its natural state
It didn't start out as a redbull sponsored meeja fest, with promotional booters and riders thinking about a "career in freeride"...
It's just become nicely packaged gnarr for fizzy, caffinated, piss swilling PlayStation addled tweenagers to yawn through without appreciation or understanding...
They strangled the cool out of it years ago, but they'll drag another decade of advertising opportunities out of it yet...
Cam Zinks latest facebook update
Redbull T.V. have a 40 odd minute movie about the recent Hardline event. All the interviewees (SP?) said they see a future in this type of event and it's a way for DH to progress/evolve. One of the racers said it was harder than Rampage as you pick your line and ride it, whereas Hardline is a competitive race, with similar huge features.
I watched Rampage live and although it was a spectacle, the lines are becoming relatively sanitised which allows for 'going bigger'.
It has a future, short term, but will be replaced by something else. Hopefully due to natural (or marketing) influences, not a severe accident.
I don't think it's dead yet, but it might be time for a long break again, maybe a new venue - but I've been saying for a few years now that I'm worried there riders doing it for the profile and RB are pushing it further and futher for the sake of a bigger spectacle to sell pop and someone's going to end up paying for it. I think the whole #****rampage thing is the start of the backlash.
I like it but it does need some changes....to decide what it wants to be for starters.
If it's a Slopestyle contest on a mountain then be done with inviting WC racers and just have it as an event on the FMB tour and he who can throw the most and the best tricks down their line wins (cough-Semunek-cough).....or make a race of it, have all riders dig teams build the one dream line that everyone rides, no tricks, just fast big mountain riding....fastest from start to finish wins.
Choose one or the other, the current incarnation is too subjective for me.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what we in the UK think, we're not the target audience....freeride is huge in the US and Canada and that's all that matters to sponsors, TV, websites etc....
I much preferred watching Hardline, that seems as big, steep and dangerous while still being a race....I'm just not interested in talking about a riders 'flow' or 'style' or any other BS you can't actually measure.
For me the telling thing is if these lads are prepared to take similar risks when the cameras are off and just out riding with mates. If so, then it's probably OK. If this is the riskiest thing they do every year egged on by cynical marketing men after increasing the bottom line profit selling fizzy pop then it is not cool.
I can't watch it - it feels too voyeur like for me - waiting for a crash which is going to be almost certainly life threatening. It's a spectacle for the computer game generation.
I have to say Having watched the prior 3 events live I didn't watch this, just tried to grab a few highlights and watch Faircloighs run. As per the OP I thought it was a bit "samey" and this year I have enjoyed watching the DH live much more. Bad news about the injury, I hope it's less serious than reported
Wow! Whiney lot aren't you?
Healing vibes to Basagoitia 🙁
I’ve got a few thoughts - the first of which is for Basagoitia. It seems like his injury really is the worst news.
2) I think the PB Rampage coverage is to be expected: they’re a hugely commercial website and that’s what their audience want to see. It’s one week a year and I personally loved it.
3) I think the worst part of all of this is the comment on the judging. As I wrote on PB, this is an event about freeride mountain biking. As a result, it should be focussed on the riding. If you’re writing that the [i]worst[/i] thing about the event is how one rider was ranked below where - in your view - he should have been, then I think you need to get your priorities straight. If this means that RB need to pull the event or reformat it somehow in order to take things back towards the riding, then so be it.
4) I’d agree that it’s gone very commercial recently, but at the same time I wouldn’t say RB have strangled the cool out of it: the riders still seem to be having fun during building etc (even if they pretty much are forced to attend because of the nature of the beast). I also think that saying the lines have become sanitised is true on a relative scale, but still a fairly strong claim to be making. Even the smoothest of runs (which lots of people are claiming to be the FEST flow line) still had [b]huge[/b] hits - just take the Caluori preview as an example of how mental the terrain is there.
5) I think the reason Rampage is popular is because it’s so unique. Saying that it needs to decide what it wants to be is to misunderstand the original point of the event. It is freeride mountain biking and it’s being judged; of course it’s going to be subjective. The judging criteria are clear and even if people don’t agree with how they were applied, the event is still pretty well-defined in terms of what it is.
6) For what it’s worth, I think we should see a jam format in future years. Give it a week. Invite all the top riders - SS, FR, DH, whatever. Maybe change location. Get the filming/documenting resources we all know RB has the power to get. Ride all week. Prizes for best trick/run/huck/whatever as voted for by the riders. Cam McCaul on commentary duties for the 3hr film RB puts together at the end.
RB can continue to put out daily content to continue the cash cow/social media side of it that presumably earns them the money, and the riders can do what they love in a way less pressurised environment.
Sorry for the rant.
A view from the other side of the screen.
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It needs a bit of time off to think about what it wants to be.
Trying to reconcile the needs of the bearded backcountry freeriders and the flipping foam pit jocks is just leading to to a bad atmosphere.The judging always get criticized but this year it seemed to upset/surprise the majority of the riders.
As a media/public spectacle the best thing that happened was Rogatkin base jumping off a cliff.....says a lot about the event.Whilst Bas's possible career ending injury and Bizet's broken leg get no coverage because I suspect it's 'bad press'.
I'd rather watch The Fest series.
I thought the judging was a bit erratic
I also watched the preamble show on Redbull.TV
Kyle Strait said something about how it's moved the sport on and he was then followed up by a decades worth of highlights that were indistinguishable from one another, there's progress... 😉
I realise that *all* trails are man-made in one way or another but the way the runs are hacked out for Rampage (in a way nature will never recover) makes me wince a bit. 😳
toughen up princess
Pretty sure you can only apply the toughen up princess card if you are part of the action 🙄 😉
I liked helpful1's old log in betterer....she did'nt try so hard to be a douchebag,it just came naturally.
It's not a side of moutain biking I really follow at all, but that bit by Cam Zink's wife(?) up there doesn't paint a pretty picture. I read somewhere else that riders were getting scared, and while I'm sure these guys are no strangers to sphinchter-clenching moments is it maybe getting a bit out of hand- effectively pressured into riding stuff they don't really want to?
Can't see that ending well.
A lot of different things to be considered. Cam Zink's comments seem a bit self serving imo since he made his name winning Rampage (with a run which didn't deserve to win) and has spent subsequent years bitching about being robbed when "his line" has just petered out each time.
It also needs to be remembered that there have been deaths in XC and Enduro this year, and recently there was a spectator killed at a BDS. So riding bikes is bloody dangerous what ever way you cut it.
Having said that I think Rampage doesn't seem to being doing all that it can for rider safety. Line choice and interpreation is part of it but I think each rider should get a build crew supplied to them and features should be finished, catch berms, netting etc. Nico Vink could easily have been killed on his feature which wasn't even finished. Rogatkin was lucky, shouldn't have been allowed to finish his run after crashing like that.
These riders will always push themselves, whether it's for contests or video segments, look at the fest series organised by the riders themselves, but I think riders at Ramapage need help to dig, a slightly looser format/timescale and less pressure.
I think those guys are the bravest and most skilled riders by far. I would be bricking it just standing on top of that ridge. Balls and skill on a different level
in a way nature will never recover
Dear god, that's a bit melodramatic. I think nature will be just fine.
On the subject of the event itself: I've been torn on this for a while Now. Whilst I much prefer the "big mountain" style of event to the "performing seal" events, such as the RB Joyride, I do wonder if the risk is worth it. A sign that RB are taking things too far was the China "Sky Gate" fiasco: An event so pointless and ill-conceived that it bordered on exploitation.
I do think the Rampage event should remain, but it does need to change: I hate events where "judging" decides the outcome, so this should be reconsidered; maybe replaced with a "jam" scenario (as mentioned above). I don't think having a timed event will work as that would play too much into the hands of the racers.
Oh, and on the subject of "sanitising" the lines: You try and ride some of that stuff and then come and tell me they are sanitised. In the vast majority of cases, the "building" has been done for safety. I remember some of the earlier events where people were having the most horrific crashes because they were basically landing huge drops in powder. If you are doing drops on that scale, you need everything to be predictable.
anything that has a judges deciding the artistic merit of something should just not be supported.
Too much bias takes place. It's human nature.
I watched Rampage live and although it was a spectacle, the lines are becoming relatively sanitised which allows for 'going bigger'.
Having stood under and around a lot of the features sanitised is not the word that comes to mind.
On the crash, he lost it on the down slope and from where we were standing above looking directly at it he appeared to try and bin it to avoid wiping out the photographers who were in the media area off line but in his path. His crash was probably the smallest drop on the course.
It is a true spectical of free ride, the lines up top are very tough, the middle drops are huge and people take a lot of time to make sure they can do it, the lower section is the let of steam crowd pleaser section.
If I can figure it out I'll be back in there next year, it was one of the best 3 days I have spent in a long time. 🙂
In the vast majority of cases, the "building" has been done for safety. I remember some of the earlier events where people were having the most horrific crashes because they were basically landing huge drops in powder. [b]If you are doing drops on that scale, you need everything to be predictable.[/b]
'Sanitation' no?
The build up vids on PB had riders praising how much was left from last year's builds. There are clear lines with berms built up with sand bags, huge rock cut outs to make a new line and edges of cliffs removed and rounded off to allow a new drop off route.
Would I even consider riding any of it? Not a hope.
My comment earlier applies. The sanitation allows for a smoother, safer ride, but hand in hand, this is means the 'edge' is now bigger and tricked which is dangerous, in a different way.
You could not do what the guys did on Saturday at the original Rampage.
Mike, I should have emphasised the word relatively more.
It's not sanitation when it's essential to make something rideable. I suppose a bridge is the sanitation of a river crossing?
I've always loved rampage for its sheer craziness and balls/skill. More and more I find it's like watching a video game, and with it a detachment from the real risk. I feel a little uncomfortable with that.
I hate and love the spectacle at the same time, seeing the riders at the bottom not describe how great their run was, but always how glad they are to be there safe - it makes me sad to think that they are so caught up in the sport/money/sponsors/success that they feel they have to risk their lives. But it keeps me watching in a voyeuristic 'this is wrong but I can't help it' way. I still post about it on FB, and watch the links that people put up driving the publicity like the rest of us.
When they drop the big plumb lines it make me feel sick. But I still love to watch it. The big jumps at the bottom are huge, but I suspect a showpiece and a welcome relief from the ridgeline and the middle section. I have no idea how they ride up on that ridge and then launch themselves from the cliff faces. I watch DH racing and, although I couldn't ride at the speed they ride, I at least understand the thought processes they are going through to a point, but Rampage is something else entirely.
There is nothing I like more than seeing people push their boundaries, and the recognised limits, it's hypnotic.
I'd like to see/read some honest post event interviews with the guys and their families. I'd love to know how many of them, deep down, wish they didn't have Rampage in their event calendars.
There is only so safe you can make an extreme sport like this. It isn't Formula 1....they can't make the bikes safer and they can't make the track safer when the points are scored for the technicality and difficulty of the riding. If you let the riders 'sanitise' the hill with sandbags and berms, they just do bigger jumps and harder tricks.
People will always go bigger, better, faster, higher. Someone will probably die and we've seen Paul badly (hopefully not irreversibly)paralysed this year, but it will continue to progress. Just look at mountaineering....so many folks have died on the Eiger, Everest etc, yet people are still out there climbing them and pushing the 'free-climbing' limits more and more.
I suspect a new venue will be on the cards soon.
https://instagram.com/camzink/
camzink Everyone send Paul Basagoitia positive vibes! This champion has started a long road to recovery after shattering his T12 vertebrae yesterday and undergoing 9 hours of surgery. He had a winning run going and may have set the record for biggest step down just before going down. Lots of tears have been shed. Keep Paul in your prayers to regain feeling in his legs. There were some horrible people spreading false news that he was OK, but he needs your support more than ever to walk again. Paul, you are the most tenacious human and competitor ever. Love you bud! You'll be back! #****rampage
Sounds like a serious situation for Paul. Wonder if this will be a turning point or if things will keep getting bigger.
It seems like maybe there's a conversation Cam Zink and his wife should have had a while back, or maybe have already had but not to everyone's satisfaction?
You can interpret the comments on scoring 2 ways, being charitable it doesn't have to be "Cam's run was underscored", it could also be "inconsistent scoring undermines the entire event" sort of thing.
I think anyone shocked by a big injury in an event dedicated to falling off cliffs and jumping across canyons is possibly just plain daft or kidding themselves. Rampage has a pretty good record considering its nature and history.
Don't really understand. It's riding bikes; that's all it is. If some of the riders are scared about jumping off cliffs, then why don't they just go home? They aren't forced to do it.
If some of the riders are scared about jumping off cliffs, then why don't they just go home? They aren't forced to do it.
I doubt it's that simple if you're a professional. I mean, I'm sure sponsors aren't there telling them they'd better get on with it or else, but it's not the same as you going out with your mates and thinking "Nah, don't fancy that today".
Rampage will keep going until the advertising revenue stops coming in.
Someone dying will just add to the advertising revenue........
I doubt it's that simple if you're a professional. I mean, I'm sure sponsors aren't there telling them they'd better get on with it or else, but it's not the same as you going out with your mates and thinking "Nah, don't fancy that today".
I know what you mean. But at the same time, they could tell their sponsors to go **** themselves. MTBing has got so corporate; what's happened to the punk rock attitude?!
what's happened to the punk rock attitude
It only existed in your imagination?
Went pretty much from bullhorns and Ron Hills.
To fluoro lycra.
To middle aged IT workers.
. It's riding bikes; that's all it is. If some of the riders are scared about jumping off cliffs, then why don't they just go home? They aren't forced to do it.
Its hardly just riding bikes is it?!...i just rode my bike across some MoD land this afternoon, it was nothing like Rampage, we're talking many magnitudes of scale larger.
Likewise the 'just go home' comment....as far as i know the only true Rampage privateer so to speak is Wil White, the rest of the riders are employed/sponsored....if they just go home because they dont like it sponsors cut them loose...that means no money coming in, no high production cost Youtube vids for next years contract negotiations etc....some of these guys have wives and kids, its their job and they are effectively contracted into doing Rampage.
There's aspects of my job i dont like, i cant just pick and choose....if i tried that my employer would fire me....of course no-one holds a gun to my head and forces me out the door each morning but its all i know (much like i suspect riding bikes is all a lot of these guys know) and so although i could leave in theory, the reality is that i need paid employment to keep a roof over my head....funnily enough much like the Rampage guys....starting again at my age would hit the family hard, again much like some of the older guys like Zink, Berrecloth etc....if you're 18 its slightly different, when you're 30+ you're effectively in it for life unless you made enough when you were young to retire early.
It only existed in your imagination?
Went pretty much from bullhorns and Ron Hills.
To fluoro lycra.
To middle aged IT workers.
haha!
It was supposed to be slightly tongue in cheek, although I think MTBing used to be taken less seriously (remember those old Mud Cows/Sprung/Cranked videos?!). I guess that's the problem though, it's now a proper sport.
But at the same time, they could tell their sponsors to go * themselves. MTBing has got so corporate; what's happened to the punk rock attitude?!
Sure they could, same as we could tell our bosses or customers to go * themselves if they expect something we're not happy with. I guess they don't for the same reasons we don't. These guys might be on another planet as far as riding bikes goes, but they're just like us when it comes to needing to make a living.
EDIT What deviant said basically!
They could just jack it in and get a proper job 😉
I think the real problem is the perceived importance and hype lead to a lot of pressure to perform for the riders, winning/placing matters too much IMO...
It's not really very "Freeride" anymore.
Dare I say it the winning shouldn't matter, nor should watching someone attempt videogame-esq 50+ foot gaps and barely polished tricks with severe penalties for failure in some vain attempt to pique the cameras interest...
When style, expression and smoothness matter less than sticking some ridiculous FMX derived move, the sport has lost its way...
One simple thing they could do, is take it out of the FMB world tour. With it being a diamond event, it creates a real 2-tier series and that's got to put real pressure on competitors to take part. Don't think the event itself needs to be tied into the series, and in some ways it probably hurts it- and I'm not convinced the series benefits from it either.
i cant be todged to read everyones responses, someone may have already said it but:
I know they're slightly improving on the stunts every year, but it's still effectively identical to the year before.
Surely you could apply this to ever sport??
A blind man on a galloping horse can see there's been massive progression year on year at Rampage.
One simple thing they could do, is take it out of the FMB world tour. With it being a diamond event, it creates a real 2-tier series and that's got to put real pressure on competitors to take part. Don't think the event itself needs to be tied into the series, and in some ways it probably hurts it- and I'm not convinced the series benefits from it either.
This.
It's big enough to be a standalone event with specialists in this field of big mountain riding....Berrecloth, Zink, Lacondegeuy etc....
I was chuffed to bits when Sam Pilgrim won the FMB world tour in 2013 but I've hated seeing him ride Rampage the couple of times he's done it....he's mature enough now to sit it out, I respect him more for admitting to hating Rampage and going against the 'cool kid's' consensus.
In a way I think WC downhillers are probably in their more natural element at Rampage than traditional HT Slopestyle riders...Semenuk has made the switch brilliantly but Fairclough, Atherton, Gracia....even Ben Reid when he did it, seem more comfortable on the big bikes and the big chutes, drops etc...it should go the way of Hardline, not linked to a series but great publicity for the riders and sponsors.
For me this year's highlight was Sam Reynolds, from dirt jumper to Slopestyle to Rampage....that's some progression but then I honestly believe he's unhinged! Haha....love his YouTube vids though.
I'd like to see Atherton back there, his practice videos from Hardline were just mental...shame he punctured in the final run....loved seeing Fairclough throw a backflip, he's a savvy boy....must've realised last year he needed a flip to compete with the big names...almost a shame it's gone that way but he did what's necessary I suppose!?
Who's the incredibly talented Dirt/Orange rider who has put out some top videos this year?...Phil Atwill!....there's someone who should be doing Rampage!
Anyway, more a stream of consciousness than a coherent post but it's Sunday night and I've had a great weekend of MTBing, watched Rampage Friday and rode Antur on Saturday....we'll be having this thread again in 12 months time I'm sure.
I'm not sure rampage does anything to advance bike technology either. How smart does a bike have to be to be jumped and landed heavily? dh world cup is where bike tech is developed.
As someone who also enjoys motorcycle racing I can see parallels between Rampage & the Isle of Man TT.Both events are unique & both have potentially massive penalties for failure.Years ago the TT was a world championship round but the event got downgraded & went it's own way.British riders were 'encouraged' to race there as it's such a big part of the British motorcycle racing season & carries a lot of kudos for the manufacturers.A lot of people thought it would die out after it's 100th anniversary but over the last decade it's raised it's profile again in its own unique way.Maybe the organisers of Rampage should take note.
It only existed in your imagination?
Went pretty much from bullhorns and Ron Hills.
To fluoro lycra.
To middle aged IT workers.
Thankfully I can't really remember you in lycra 😆
Since the early 90's MTB has gone from bum bags, miss-matched lycra, water bottles and riding uphill fast to.....exactly the same albeit slightly looser lycra. 'Enduro' has certainly killed any chance of mountain biking ever being cool again.
I have photos still 😀
I suppose for me this just highlights the dangers of allowing our sport to be controlled by corporate interests, rather than by riders. BMX has dealt with this very effectively. The contests/events are run by riders. The companies are owned by riders. They are not part of multi-million dollar investment groups. The BMX media is far more small scale, localised, run by riders. There are of course exceptions to this (X games, GT BMX etc) but largely, BMX culture is led by riders themselves, people who are actively and personally involved in riding BMX. Riders have created the Jam format to make things more mellow and relaxed. Contests are very much secondary to video parts (which come with their own pressures of course).
Everyone in BMX, I'm sure, is making less money, but maybe that's ok.
We support this corporate situation when we buy stuff from non rider owned companies (of which admittedly there are relatively few!)
Well having just watched the TV replay you see more but it only conveys about 70% of the scale, difficulty and balls involved. I can't wait for next year, for those hating on Red Bull, these guys are putting a lot of money in and making the coverage work.
In some ways if there were no sponsors and no TV would the guys still be building or riding in the red dirt?
I think some would be but the progression would probably not be there
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/779/22293009265_8cb73216ec_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/779/22293009265_8cb73216ec_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zXXuYH ]Mod-3266[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
Is it progression though, to do a trick that you've done a thousand times on something smaller just over a big gap?
Rampage is a real exhibition of bravery and high consequence riding. I'd never ever consider any of it!! But for me it's no where near as entertaining to watch as something like Hard line. I found that brilliant to watch, and really enjoyed the variety of the riding the course required.
Maybe it's because I "grew up" watching Josh Bender etc doing these huge drops etc, that I've seen the kind of riding that Rampage involves and the freshness has gone?
But I don't for a second take away from they riders who do it, I'm speaking as a spectator only.
Really hope that the terrible injury to Paul Bass. isn't as severe as we all worry it may in fact be.
mikewsmith - Member
for those hating on Red Bull, these guys are putting a lot of money in and making the coverage work.
I don't think anyone is questioning how much money they are spending (which no doubt they can justify in terms of advertising). People are questioning whether the money being spent on the athletes, are they airbrushing out the bad news about PB's injury, does the prize money justify the risk, is the format too pressurized etc etc
Redbull appear to have made no comment on Paul Basagotia's injury and rumour has it they knew he was seriously injured during the event but had the announcers state he was okay.
In some ways if there were no sponsors and no TV would the guys still be building or riding in the red dirt?
They'd be doing it somewhere. 100%.
I didn't like the fact that they basically take a hill and change it completely from its natural state
Which hills do you ride on that aren't changed completely from their “natural state”?
TBH it's really too early to be talking much about Paul Bas's injury, it'd be good to have an acknowledgement from Red Bull but everyone's a long way from knowing what the outcome is for him so going further than that. (IANAD; apparently it's common after thoracic spine injuries to have temporary losses of function and sensation but often it simply recovers, and that fits with the comment that he's recovering sensation. So it's a "best wishes" situation if you like, rather than a "what do we do")
The other thing about his injury, is that in the end, it was "just" a high speed crash- sure it came off the big step down but he landed it, and binned it down on the flat. In other words, it's not a "rampage specific" thing, like say coming up short on the big gap and falling in the canyon; it's the sort of injury that can happen any time you crash a mountain bike fast. Probably doesn't make any difference to him but I think does come into it when you're talking "is rampage too dangerous".
Quite an interesting article here, especially some of the comments below it regarding photographers on riders lines.
I'm not sure rampage does anything to advance bike technology either. How smart does a bike have to be to be jumped and landed heavily? dh world cup is where bike tech is developed
If anything it's a regression (based on industry hype)
26 inch wheels and certain manufacturers saying no carbon frames!
Good article. Didn't know about the insurance/not being able to take pics of broken riders...
Bit of positive news on Paul from Tippie's instagram feed . . . [url]
So glad things are moving in the right direction for him - fingers crossed.
It seems like maybe there's a conversation Cam Zink and his wife should have had a while back, or maybe have already had but not to everyone's satisfaction?
The video Cam's 100foot backflip stunt shows his wife while he's rolling in, she's in tears.
Good article. Didn't know about the insurance/not being able to take pics of broken riders...
yeah, I have to say that's changing my opinion of the event somewhat. I get the feeling they are being exploited.
I've often wondered how people on Jackass or Nitro Circus pay the inevitable medical bills, but at least they get all the money from the show.
I won't be watching it again
1) I don't like watching riders trying stuff where the penalties for failure are so high and margins of safety are so low. A bit of risk 'Id' never do that' is fine, 'that's just bloody stupid' not.
2) RedBull seem to be putting their commercial interests over rider safety and care for those injured.
I love Rampage but find it a bit soulless in the current format.
As others have already said, I'd like:
- Rider judged- best trick, best line (build), best line (rider)
- "Jam" format
- Standalone showcase of riding and passion, i.e. no FMB points
- More intimate (if that is the right word!) coverage. It is so hard to appreciate what you are watching.
- Looser time format. The live format puts way too much pressure on the build and riders adding unnecessary risk.
It sounds like FEST but that isn't what I have in mind. I'm thinking more like Nine Knights. Huge opportunity for media coverage (make sure everyone has a cam and compile the footage as RB wish, plus get a better "behind the scenes" understanding as a viewer) so RB don't lose money but not in a way that adds pressure to fit schedules. That must encourage more creativity and foster a better feeling amongst the riders too without taking anything away from RB you'd have thought?
Likewise the 'just go home' comment....as far as i know the only true Rampage privateer so to speak is Wil White, the rest of the riders are employed/sponsored....if they just go home because they dont like it sponsors cut them loose...that means no money coming in, no high production cost Youtube vids for next years contract negotiations etc....some of these guys have wives and kids, its their job and they are effectively contracted into doing Rampage.
Another thing to consider is how it may affect the riders to "back out" under such pressure. Pilgrim got no end of abuse for deciding to sit out the X-Games finals due to wind and Benderoni (the crazy Russian dude) hasn't ridden a bike again since showing up to Rampage and being over-whelmed
I don't really have an opinion on Rampage ending or not, but I do think there is a large hole in mountain bike coverage at the moment.
On the one hand you have DH. Speed is everything, yet we still love it when someone shows style.
On the other, you have slopestyle. Feels like BMX to me, rather than mountain biking.
When you want to see stylish/freeride-y riding you currently have to watch an edited movie like unReal or the smaller edits that riders and manufacturers put out. They're great, but it's all jump cuts and you've no idea how anyone else would ride the same line. Camera work and editing counts for a lot of it.
So I do think there is a hole in the middle for a judged comp where style and speed meet. I loved watching those Enduro sections where everyone takes the corner differently for example.
I don't have the answer, but Rampage does offer some of that - especially with Remy drifting everywhere in contrast to the huckers.
I agree with those who dont really understand what it is. Personally Im not so keen on the trick filled runs as they are not my thing.
As to the risks the short answer is that people will be prepared to take them when the title can make a career and set riders up financially for a long time.
More intimate (if that is the right word!) coverage. It is so hard to appreciate what you are watching.
- Looser time format. The live format puts way too much pressure on the build and riders adding unnecessary risk.
As was said on the coverage interviews and in the Cam Zink bio flick the only way to appreciate it is to be there, even watching the helmet cams didn't really do it justice.
The time thing is very loose, they moved the day to get the best chance of a full day in, the rain that came over the weekend would have meant lots more work over the weekend to get it back to riding. We were there from about 9 till they called it as the wind wasn't going to get better as the sun dropped in the afternoon. 4+ hrs for 50x3min runs is a lot going time.
Also on risk more people have died racing wc xc this year than rampage.
Compared to the progression in other extreme sports freeride has a long way to go yet.
I didn't mean the extra exposure being just about POV runs- there's plenty of those already. I meant much more of the type of thing they started doing with the short rider clips but on a bigger scale and more focused towards this as the entertainment rather than live judged runs. Fairlough's run looked nothing special in the Live show but the "behind the scenes" explanation of the line with him and the builders, the progress to hitting the full line and the descriptions by different people as to what was properly sketchy is far more interesting than the live run coverage. They only did it for a few riders and I think it could be expanded more. If you look at some of the Nine Knights stuff you get more of a sense of what the riders impressions are of each others stuff and get a bit more involved in it all.
Also on risk more people have died racing wc xc this year than rampage.
It's one thing to be injured, or killed, as an unforeseen by-product of an activity; it's another thing entirely to be expected to deliberately do something that could have permanently damaging consequences.
It is but it's also the facts, riders are choosing their lines and their level of risk. Along the lines of climbers trying the do or die routes many with as many variables as rampage. The event is a focus of the pinnacle of free ride, it's where people choose to go and test themselves.
No one has suggested that the IOM TT has run out of life - that's possibly more risky.
TrimixNo one has suggested that the IOM TT has run out of life - that's possibly more risky.
No possibly about it. 240 deaths.
Blinking flip.
I see all the arguments against Rampage, and I like the Hardline series but for the sheer spectacle and hard to believe ridiculousness of the stuff they ride down I have to admit I think Rampage is an incredible event. Would love to see it for real.
I suppose a lot of it comes down to the riders: it sounds naïve, but there must come a point that [i]they[/i] stand up for themselves and call it if it is too risky an experience in their subjective views (assuming all objective risks have been mitigated).
Indeed, DanW, Sam Pilgrim took a lot of stick but that was for slightly different reasons - that was the first time ‘mountain biking’ had featured in the X Games; Rampage is a repeated event. At Rampage, there is a situation where riders do not take flak for not riding (see Lacondeguy/Agassiz not running), so, ultimately, they need to decide what is acceptable to them. Benderoni found it unacceptable and left. Fair enough. But don’t start negative social media campaigns on behalf of individuals who should be able to act for themselves. It sounds harsh, but that’s what I think.
(PS Mr. Benderoni is certainly still riding mountain cycles - [url=
here for more[/url]!)
Glad to see "Benderoni" riding again. It seemed Rampage mentally broke the poor guy and he did get a lot of flak for it at the time. Pilgrim's situations isn't so different- one off or annual event it makes no difference really. He too had a tough time after that event and needed a really quiet season to get his confidence back as he says in his web series. Even Andreu was getting grief for not riding Crankworks at one time. Sure part of it was him claiming the jumps were too small for his tastes which isn't going to win friends but his other point was that the jumps were poorly built (Semenuk found out to his cost). Point is the riders are damned if they do and damned if they don't and it isn't easy to just not ride if that is what the expectations of your "employers" are
I don't think anyone is saying "let's stop Rampage" completely. I'm certainly not as I love the whole premise. However, I, like many others it would seem, think the format should change as the current one doesn't seem to be working any more.