[Closed] How much advantage is suspension, gears?

😕

depends more on the rider than the bike.

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whats the axle to crown? where was the frame designed? coil or air?

Ah, so there's no advantage then? They're just dead weight?

0% improvement for gears, maybe 5% for front suspension and 0% for everything else.

There's so many factors to consider, depends on the rider, the bike and where you ride amongst other things.

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twice as long as half it 😛

Roughly 2367.85% better

The forks would improve bump absorption for the front wheel.
The gears would improve gear ratios. The ability to ride up at a chosen cadence and the ability to ride down without spinning out.
Both features would add weight and complication.
None of these things are quantifiable with figures (apart from the weight gain).
What sort of answer are you looking for?

0% improvement for gears,

Utter piffle!

A SS will max out at 15-16 mph on the flat, gears will nearly double that if you have the legs, and I can cruise at 18-19mph!

Depends on 101 other things..............

A fixie is the quickest thing arround a velodrome (probably)

A road bike is the quickest thing arround the tour de france

A downhill bike is the quickest thing down the fort william track.

So from that its fairly obvious theres more to it than gears and suspension.

So basically people are buying bikes with gears and suspension for other reasons than performance? I was under the impression there was some sort of advantage. Is it just a plot to sell expensive consumable parts to gullible fashion victims?

Has anyone any idea where I can see some numbers, eg actual testing not just waffle?

Eh? Jesh, just what are you trying to achive?

Ehh, we've all said about the same thing, theres a lot more to it than just those 2 variables, a V10 wouldnt be winning the tour de france, just as an on-one inbred is never going to win the world cup downhill.

So basically people are buying bikes with gears and suspension for other reasons than performance?

suspension for comfort? see what FS for backpain threads.

I was under the impression there was some sort of advantage.

gears are more efficient, ie lazy.

So basically people are buying bikes with gears and suspension for other reasons than performance? I was under the impression there was some sort of advantage. Is it just a plot to sell expensive consumable parts to gullible fashion victims?

Has anyone any idea where I can see some numbers, eg actual testing not just waffle?

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Dead serious.

I have an entry in the World Solo 24 Hour Championship. I usually race single speed on a rigid bike.

There is a SS class with no age category, so I'll get flogged by younger riders if I nominate that class. Doesn't worry me too much, I wouldn't expect to do much good against the competition there.

I was going to ride in the age category on my rigid SS, but it has been suggested to me that I would do much better if I rode with gears and suspension (hopefully a placing)

So I'm trying to work out whether it is worth learning how to use those new-fangled gear things and vibration absorbing suspension, or whether I should simply just ride my SS anyway.

I don't want to buy one of those heavy complicated bikes unless there is a clear advantage (faster lap times). 🙂

How on earth do you think that would be quantified though? Your bike will weigh more, so in that respect it'll be slower, but you'll be less fatigued, and you'll be able to match your gearing to your speed, so you'll be able to maintain a more comfortable cadence on varying terrain.

Sorry, I mean it'll be 39 seconds a lap quicker. Better?

Has anyone any idea where I can see some numbers, eg actual testing not just waffle?

I have 35% more fun on my full suss than on my hardtail.

I was hoping someone had quantified this. Surely somewhere there is evidence.

Please no more guesses - I can guess too 🙂

Get a demo bike and feel the difference yourself!

truly bizarre question

This place gets worse by the day..

I would just suggest ride what you're used to rather than faffing around with new kit!

I think suspension is meant to make you faster as the front wheel will contact the ground more over bumpy surfaces rather than bouncing off roots etc. As for gears.. well they slow me down because I'm lazy and rely on sitting/spinning. And if they skip that will kill the momentum and thus end a climb!

How much better would an iron sword be? I only have experience with rocks.

Let me think, World Cup XC racers on the whole run at least 2x9 or 2x10, and in the vast majority of cases Front bounce, with quite a few running FS.

So wold it be safe to assume that for any given WC trail, gears and at least boingy forks are quicker than a SS with rigid forks, no?

steve_b77 - Member
...So wold it be safe to assume that for any given WC trail, gears and at least boingy forks are quicker than a SS with rigid forks, no?

Surely it depends on the course and conditions on the given day?

it's a world championships - presumably either it'll be full of world class riders in all classes and you'll get you ass kicked, or it's for fun. If the latter, don't spend 2 grand on a bike for it; just enjoy the experience

(I am, of course, ignoring the 3rd option - that YOU are a world class rider, based on your question and the fact that someone else isn't giving you a 5 grand bike)

Dear sweet jesus....

If you can ride a singlespeed, then you can ride a geared bike faster.

In almost every singlespeed ride, there are points at which a harder gear will allow you to go faster....that bit when you spin out.

In almost every singlespeed ride, there are points at which an easier gear will allow you to climb using less energy... that bit when you are thrutching up a climb.

A geared bike can do EVERYTHING a singlespeed bike can do, only it can do it at a wider range of speeds, and in mountain biking terms, a wider range of gradients.

No, there is no percentage evidence available for my suppositions, but that doesn't make it untrue.

Suit yourself.

If the smiles on faces to number of gears on the bike ratio is anything to go by then singlespeeders win hands down.
One gear events = big smiles from 95% of participants.
Other events = some right grumpy ****ers.

As for advantage. Nah there ain't none of that as we're all so good we need to give ourselves a dissadvantage so the frowning****ers have a chance of having any fun. 😉

When on earth would you be wanting to spin faster than 20mph on a mtb anyway???

If you ride rigid SS usually ride that ffs, dont go adding suspension and gears. Just price it up if you want to see why you shouldnt do it.

Ive ridden my SS with rigid carbon and then 130mm travel forks. Whilst i learnt to ride some stuff and do drop offs wit hteh forks i can now do everything on the rigids i can on the forks. So in my case, suspension made 0% difference. In fact it slows me down as it weighs about 2 or so kg more than rigids.

[i]If the smiles on faces to number of gears on the bike ratio is anything to go by then singlespeeders win hands down.
One gear events = big smiles from 95% of participants.
Other events = some right grumpy ****ers.

As for advantage. Nah there ain't none of that as we're all so good we need to give ourselves a dissadvantage so the frowning****ers have a chance of having any fun.[/i]

Apparently, unless you have any double-blind controlled trial evidence regarding the above, it's inadmissable as evidence....

A SS will max out at 15-16 mph on the flat, gears will nearly double that if you have the legs, and I can cruise at 18-19mph!

How can you quote figures without knowing the ratio being used or the cadence the rider can sustain?

crikey.

That sounds great but I have no idea what you're talking about. 😆

there is an old adage; train what you race.

i wouldn't change for racing.

Don't change - ride what you know.

futon river crossing - Member

Don't change - ride what you know.

No no.

Having seen how you like to experiment with bikes get a full suss geared bike then start cutting and shutting the frame/ drive train and post up a shitload of pictures on here to mess with the Trekmarinspecializedgiant riders minds. 8)

I recently went from rigid to suspension on my Inbred. My forks are only old 80mm Air bombers, the rigid forks were on-one steel ones. It is a lot faster over anything that's remotely rough. And a lot less tiring.

scaredypants - Member
it's a world championships - presumably either it'll be full of world class riders in all classes and you'll get you ass kicked, or it's for fun. If the latter, don't spend 2 grand on a bike for it; just enjoy the experience

I'm in with a chance in my age category if I can get a bit faster. I'd sooner race on a proper bike than get gears and suspension. Hence the question.

Looks like I'll have to do some testing myself so I can work out the %.

singlespeedstu - Member
Having seen how you like to experiment with bikes get a full suss geared bike then start cutting and shutting the frame/ drive train and post up a shitload of pictures on here to mess with the Trekmarinspecializedgiant riders minds.

It's like kaisae and Ritchie McCoy have mated! Supertroll??

No idea percentage wise but if you ride singlespeed over an XC course the chances are that you will rarely evcer be in the most effiecent gear. Therefore gears will be a big advantage becuase the 1lb will easily be over come by being in the most effiecent gear when both climbing and decending.

Suspension fork will help prevent get knackered as quick. help with traction and aid with decending quicker. again no perecentage guess but I know at cwncarn I get down the DH track 30 seconds quicker on my DH rig than my 4x rig, if I am pinning it on both.

Two options.

#1
Look at the results of any 12 or 24 hour race with a seperate singlespeed class.
How many laps did the overall winner do ?
How many laps did the SS winner do ?
That's the difference.

#2
Hire a bike with gears and suspension.
Time a lap of a test route on your bike.
Time a lap on the hire bike.
That's the difference.

MilitantGraham - Member
#2
Hire a bike with gears and suspension.
Time a lap of a test route on your bike.
Time a lap on the hire bike.
That's the difference.

#2Yeah, that's basically what I'm going to have to do.

I was hoping some research had been done on this previously and that I could be pointed that way.

I find it amazing that the advantage has never been quantified.

I'll build up an Alfine wheel tomorrow and give it a whirl.

get super niche and get yourself a rigid 29er ss that will certainly be faster.

metcalfe - Member
get super niche and get yourself a rigid 29er ss that will certainly be faster.

That's what I ride at the moment 🙂

This thread has totally destroyed my image of STW riders. 🙁

Based on the amount of threads where the emphasis is on going fast and performing amazing feats, I had visions of finely honed athletes who tested every little thing to check its incremental value to their performance.

The sort of people who wouldn't hesitate to use the [b][u][url= http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html ]ShelBroCo[/url]
[/u][/b] chain maintenance regime to gain half a second per lap. Now I'm not so sure.

I had hoped there would be one who could spare a crumb of fact. Unfortunately the thread remains fact free.

However the STW crew have been extremely generous with their opinions which unfortunately have fallen on stony ground because I already have such an excess of opinions that I am often voicing them to ungrateful ears.

Or could it be that I'm wrong, and that you are all competing in the World 24 Hour Solos and do not wish to give away any advantage? 🙂

There's too many variables in mountain biking to give an exact figure.
I'm sure it would be possible to set up a test rig to measure oxygen consumption and power output at set speeds and cadences with different gear ratios to calculate the exact benefit of having a choice of gears, but I don't know how accurately the results would translate across to a real mountain bike race.

Epiccyclo-What bike did you ride before your rigid SS 29er? I can't believe you've never had gears!

My advice would be to buy a set of suspension forks for your 29er and try 'em. Will of course depend on where you test them wheter or not they are faster than rigid or not.

I, for what its worth, have tested my FS bike against a front suspension singlespeed around Sherwood Pines and I was faster on the FS.

#1 won't work because they are different riders - but I have looked at it.

#2Yeah, that's basically what I'm going to have to do.

I was hoping some research had been done on this previously and that I could be pointed that way.

I find it amazing that the advantage has never been quantified.

I'll build up an Alfine wheel tomorrow and give it a whirl.

I sincerely hope you'll be posting up a thorough, lucid breakdown of your efforts, with graphs and maybe a Powerpoint presentation. Extra points will be given depending on how witty the name of the units you will use to quantify performance gains/losses is. We [i]need[/i] this information, damnit!

#1 won't work because they are different riders - but I have looked at it.

My laps were between 61 and 64 mins a lap for my geared 29er HT and 67 - 69mins on my rigid 29er SS at 2010 Mountain Mayhem.

2 laps each in the dry without lights being needed. My night laps were all done on the 29er geared HT.

So: 3-5 mins slower per 9.2 mile lap with 1600ft of climbing.

3.5lbs difference in weight, similar wheels and tyres, identical build kit (other than suspension forks, brakes and mechs + shifters).

IMO I lost most of the time on the flats and downs where I spun out on the SS.

Daffy - Member
My laps were between 61 and 64 mins a lap for my geared 29er HT and 67 - 69mins on my rigid 29er SS at 2010 Mountain Mayhem...

Thanks Daffy. Exactly the sort of thing I wanted to know. 🙂

ctk - Member
Epiccyclo-What bike did you ride before your rigid SS 29er? I can't believe you've never had gears!

I've got gears on my belt drive Pompino. A S-A 3 speed. 🙂

I gave up on derailleurs decades ago when I suffered an eye-watering GTTI* episode after my lightweight expensive derailleur broke apart on a steep climb and did a roadside single speed conversion.

*Goolie Top Tube Interface