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I'm interested to see how many people use IGHs for MTBing.
In a totally unscientific poll myself and a friend use them out of about 10 people that I ride with on a semi-regular basis.
So that's 1/5, but it's probably a higher ratio than the normal MTB population. Or is it?
I run them on two bikes. An Alfine 8 (on and off for 5 years), and a recently built up Nuvinci 360 on my Surly Krampus.
For me it's ease (or lack) of maintenance, basically singlespeeding, but with gears.
Also cost, as I can use a sub-£10 7/8 spd chain and a £5 Sturmey Archer cog. Replacing them maybe every 2 years.
The earth is very sandy and grindy around here, so I find derailleur systems get graunchy very quickly in the winter months.
It was going for some rides with Geoff Apps that turned me on to the idea. Cheers Geoff 😉
Gave up when 1x showed up.
Proper steps, lighter, wider range and equally efficient in every gear.
Used to run two alfine 8s
I do. I've done about 10000 miles on my Rohloff mtb since I built it in 2010.
I wouldn't go back to standard derailleur gears for my main bike now.
I can think of one mate with a Rohloff on one of his bikes. And that’s it, out of 50+ riders in my wider riding circle! Plenty who have a singlespeed as one of their bikes though.
I very much like the idea, it's always been the cost that's put me off in the past though. I suppose if they were cheaper they'd be more popular, but they need to get more popular to be cheaper!
I was quite keen on a Rohloff for a winter bike but my mate with one said he didn’t like all that extra weight at the back of a hardtail.
I used to have an Alfine on my fatbike. Ultimately, there was no real benefit. Derailleurs and cassettes actually work really well and are remarkably efficient. No one I ride with has an IGH.
Sometimes... but not exclusively
had a rohloff for 4 years and got rid, never to be seen again. felt inefficient (even after 4 years of wearing in), and the weight at the back of the bike made it handle like a dog. it's very much a no from me...
No way, Pinion gearboxes for me
What RB said. Had an IGH mounted into a frame as a rudimentary gearbox, which had some benefits, but not that Id want another
Have a rohloff - consigned to my winter bike as it was to put it bluntly it was shit. It's only saving grace is that if your a hack who doesn't look after their gear it's super tollerant at the expense of being pleasurable to ride.
Had an Alfine on a commuter. It felt like pedaling through treacle even after the oil bath service mod. -it did improve but not enough. -commutwr runs very cheap and durable claris.
Our cargo bike has a sturmey archer 3 speed with an 9 speed cassettes on it. Full 27 speed range with a 1* frontend. It proves well that hub gears can be almost drag free across their range....how ever that is at the expense of sealing
They seem like a nice theory, but until I see one in real life, I won't believe they really exist.
I see one in real life, I won’t believe they really exist.
My lesser-spotted Alfine in the wild today 😉
Had an Alfine on a commuter. It felt like pedaling through treacle
See, people say this, but I really don't get that at all.
To me it hi honestly feels no worse than a normal geared set-up. A bit less instant than SS sure, but not massively draggy.
I dip the internals of mine in auto-transmission fluid once a year.
Feel? My commutes were consistantly slower on my hub geared bike over a similarly speced derraileured bike, coincidentally my heart rate was also higher for a given speed despite a pretty stable RHR
Something was required extra effort. It might not have been much but it was real and noticeable.
So that’s 1/5, but it’s probably a higher ratio than the normal MTB population. Or is it?
The fact that there's two of you in the same group is a massive coincidence. I've known only 2 people who've even tried them.
Well feel is all I have to go on. I've ridden my Trailstar with an Alfine almost exclusively this summer, and have clocked 20+ KOMs on it. Some new ones and some that I've beaten myself on. So it's obviously not holding me back too much.
Anyway this wasn't meant to be a thread to moan about IGHs (though this is STW, so what did I expect 😉 ).
Mainly I was interested in how many people use them offroad.
The fact that there’s two of you in the same group is a massive coincidence. I’ve known only 2 people who’ve even tried them.
I have also ridden with Amedias ^ on occasion, and another rider I go out with regularly used to ride one. Though I don't think he does anymore. So it's more than 2 really!
I ran Rohloff on hardtail and sus-bikes for quite a few years, then a Pinion gearbox. Have a belt drive commuter with an Alfine 8 and a 6 speed Brompton (3 speed wide range hub).
1x killed it for me off road - difference in weight increased, fewer parts to replace to completely refresh the drivetrain and ended chain suck.
The weight balance of a Rohloff was the issue. You could adapt to it but it did make the bike feel sluggish. Pinion solved that - weight balance was better than 1x, and rear suspension worked really well with a super light back end. BUT increase in weight was even more than Rohloff.
On a commute bike hubs make loads of sense. I recommend them to anyone - efficiency isn't a big issue there (not that I believe it's materially different) and the low maintenance (and with belt cleanliness) makes a big difference on a daily use bike.
Off road I don't miss them until winter arrives and everything's grinding. Or when the mech takes a hit on a rock and you know will never shift quite perfectly again but isn't bad enough to replace. So, yes, sometimes I'd really like another Pinion bike.
What really does surprise me is that no-one has yet put out an e-bike drive with integrated gearbox. It was supposed to be on Pinions roadmap when they launched but still haven't seen it. With an e-bike the extra weight becomes irrelevant, you could easily integrate electric shifting to deal with the (many) people who seem to have such an issue with grip shift (never bothered me).
E-bikes seem to eat drivetrains so there would be a real tangible benefit.
I've got a rohloff on my rigid 29er.... Does a bit of everything. Love it's clean look and simplicity... Does occasionally feel draggy but that's only when in the lower 7 gears where the noise makes you notice it more. Off road this is less noticeable as tyre noise etc hide it a bit, you then don't think it's as draggy 😂
Wouldn't have it on a trail bike though, suspension or hard tail. Weight distribution and grip shift would put me off but then I haven't tried it and probably won't as I can't be arsed!
I don't know anyone else who uses a geared hub off road like I do,
I'd like to try a pinion full suspension bike though just to see
I used an 8 speed Alfine (with Zerode shifter)for several years and really liked it except for the obvious weight penalty, compared to a singlespeed and the “soft” engagement, probably because I do quite a lot of ratcheting in tight, nadgery stuff.
I might give it another chance this winter though.
Bought a cheap s/h Alfine 8 hybrid because I was curious about them. It hasn’t really won me over but I wonder if it’s in need of some maintenance.
I don’t ride with anyone who uses them on a MTB.
I wonder if it’s in need of some maintenance.
It's incredibly easy to drop out the internals and do a clean and soak in ATF fluid.
Makes a real difference to smoothness of changes, how draggy it feels, and general noise.
“What really does surprise me is that no-one has yet put out an e-bike drive with integrated gearbox.”
It doesn’t surprise me because it’s a packaging nightmare, especially now everyone wants to fit a bottle in their frame, but YES YES YES, I WANT ONE!
Have an early Alfine that has been on and off mtbs. Currently been on my commuter for the last 2 years. It does seem to have got a bit less draggy on climbs. Still don't like the mushy take-up but othewise it does the job.
Have a 29er wheel in the attic with disc brake 3 speed Sturmey. Quite liked it for mtb (felt fairly efficient) but complete lack of sealing and tricky chain line make it a bit impractical. Keep meaning to try it for clog free CX racing sometime (brazed some specific cable stops for it when I made the frame).
But like most people here, find 1x offers more for geared mtb.
One on a Speedball and one on a Pugsley for me - both Alfine 8.
Lots of clay here in winter. On an 18 mile, slightly hilly, commute the Speedball is almost as quick as my geared cross bike.
I used my Rohloff on my main MTB for a few years before moving on to 1X again. It's the slow freehub engagement which eventually got too annoying for me. I've now gone to the other extreme with Onyx clutch hubs...
It now lives on my 'gravel' bike, which is a Singular swift. This gets used on tamer terrain and long days out. The Rohloff is great for this. I really like the easy maintenance and robustness. Claggy mud and slushy ice is no problem.
I'd disagree with the draggy comments, but it seems Rohloffs split opinion in this regard and always have done.
It is slightly noisy in gears 1 - 3, a bit noisier in 4 - 7 and perfectly quiet an smooth in gears 8 - 11, much moreso than a derailleur. Cruising in gear 11 especially is like a smooth SS hub.
I like it, but appreciate it's certainly not perfect.
I had an Alfine 11 a few years back. It was rubbish.
Rohloff on the tandem because it was the only hub that wouldn't break. I have run an alfine. the alfine is dfraggy for sure in some gears, the rohloff less so
How many miles did you do on the rohloff Trailrat? Our is still running in at 10 000 plus miles - gets smoother and less draggy every year
While I do find the rohloff a bit draggy I think it feels and sounds much more than it actually is
2008 hub , Heaps on a thorn raven enduro which did commuting and training duties .... about 2 years on my td-1 till I fitted my xtr and realised lap on lap it was much faster as a derraileur geared bike and now 5 years on my winter/fat bike where the drag is masked by the tires and weight
I still use an Alfine 8. A couple of riding buddies also have them although not on their mtb's, have ridden with two or three with Rohloffs and a friend also has a 3 speed Sturmey.
I like the Alfine, it only ever feels draggy when its in 1st gear and the riding is tough i.e. thick mud or a sandy climb. In those situation it feels like the hub gets draggy but I also know it might just be because I can feel the gear mechanism through the pedals, so try to ignore it 🙂
Fairysnuff Trailrat.
simons_nicolaiuk
1x killed it for me off road – difference in weight increased, fewer parts to replace to completely refresh the drivetrain and ended chain suck.
How did Single chainrings kill off chainsuck out of interest or are you referring to the use of clutch mechs with the 1 X system?
I'm still on 3 X 9 btw so just interested !
It doesn’t surprise me because it’s a packaging nightmare, especially now everyone wants to fit a bottle in their frame,
Only an issue for MTB though which isn't the main market for e-bikes
I don't know anyone with one; nor have ever seen one outside a shop...
I ran my ebike conversion with an alfine. Worked just fine.
I think the 1X argument works in relatively normal conditions where the mucky stuff mainly stays on the floor. Around here with it's special mixture of clay and loam winter riding can reduce the drivetrain to a brown blob - I've ridden to the point where the rear cassette was simply not visible within the gloop. In those conditions a IGH makes total sense as the gear changes continue to work and the efficiency remains about the same.
I've mostly stopped bothering riding off road if it's going to be like that though and the winter hardtail with the 8spd alfine has been broken down and will be reborn some time soon as a Rohloff clad word tour bike. Just as soon as I hit the frame with a brazing torch and give it a lick of paint.
Had a rohloff on a MTB for a few years a while ago but it was draggy and not maintainance free . It had to go back to Germany twice to have the bearings replaced , which was done foc both times .my bike also got a lot of rear wheel punctures which I attributed to the extra weight of the rear wheel .
Rohloff on my drop-bar rigid MTB.
Been using it for ~3 years, with belt drive. The zero-maintenance aspect is great, and I like the shifting (Co-Motion), and feeling invincible.
In the summer, especially, I do wonder about how the bike would feel with some added lightness and think about converting to conventional gears. But I'll probably leave it there now.
I'm the only person I know with this type of gearing, and I've only ever seen about one other bike with a Rohloff hub out in the wild.
my bike also got a lot of rear wheel punctures which I attributed to the extra weight of the rear wheel .
... I am not sure about the physics of that ... ?
more unsprung mass coliding behind the impact zone on square edges.
i experianced this phenomenon also.
Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.
Extra (unsprung) weight Of an ihg would be likely to make (impact) punctures more common I’d say.
That's definitely a bit of an issue with Rohloff. Of course, Pinion goes the other way - making them less likely with reduced unsprung weight.
A frame mounted IGH, you say?...
