I'm not necessarily sure that discs will make it onto the UCI pro road racing scene, the practicalities of getting a punctured wheel out and a new one in - what about the ones on the top of the mavic neutral service car? force all teams to swap to discs at the same time?
even if you standardise the rotor and position between the fork/dropout ends, you still run the risk of the racer being delayed while the mechanic trims the brake and then can't get back into a break/misses a time cut?
Wool - as I remember it, Beloki went over because the tarmac was melting and his front wheel washed out, but it's true that tub glue melts and heat blowouts would be less likely with discs and rims would be stiffer, aero and light without needing a braking surface
even accounting for the above, I think that discs would be a net benefit once the technology but I think the practical issues will outweigh
I've had disks on my CX bikes for years. All you really need is the front one to be honest. I went through two rims in two months with canti's one winter so that pretty much sold me on the idea. And when a rim goes when you're 20 miles from home, it's a long walk. I guess that depends on how sandy it is where you ride. Also, go for a 60-70 mile offroad cross ride in the rocky stuff and near the end you won't be able to feel your hands with canti's, you certainly won't be doing much stopping, you just can't get the same power for the same force.
Saying all that, I've just bought a cross bike with canti's, which reminded me of all these issues. 😉
They're all at it (or it's early year and the journos have nothing else to write about 🙂 )
Magura/Acros hydro brakes and gear?:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/have-magura-and-acros-teamed-to-develop-a-fully-hydraulic-road-group-32838
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/04/magura-teases-something-road-oriented-hydraulic-brakes-perhaps/
TRP Parabox review:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/03/trp-parabox-hydraulic-disc-brake-converter-unboxed-weighed-changes-coming/
Hope V-Twin
http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/12/28/hope-tech-v-twin-cyclocross-hydraulic-disc-brakes-now-shipping/
on of the things attracting me to try some cx riding/racing is the simplicity of the bikes.
one thing I'm total convinced of though is tubeless - whats the crack with tubeless and cx bikes?
I'd suggest that rather than hijacking this thread you start a new one which I'll happily contribute to 🙂
(though this thread may be a good starter: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/what-tyres-for-tubeless-cx )
For a short period last year I had two cross bikes, a Yeti on Canti's which were soon swapped for mini-vs and an Airbourne using BB7 cable discs.
Whilst I enjoy building bikes up, I hate setting up brakes. The bb7's were a fit and forget situation, the canti's (frog legs) and the v's were a nightmare, I could never get them to sit without rubbing and swapping between wheels (carbon tubs and much wider open pro's for training on) was a right ball-ache due to the difference in width of the rim.
The braking power of discs was far superior in all conditions and the weight wasn't noticeable for me.
For anything off-road, winter training based or touring I'd never go back to canti's. For racing on the road I'd stick with rim brakes, for me personally I've never found them lacking in power. I also much prefer the look of a lightweight road bike free of clutter.
I'd suggest that rather than hijacking this thread you start a new one which I'll happily contribute to
I own this thread 😛
You think that just because you're the OP, you can do whatever you want 🙄
😉
one thing I'm total convinced of though is tubeless - whats the crack with tubeless and cx bikes?
For racing that would be the one thing I'm not convinced of! I'm a Tubular man through and through, you can't beat them or even get close for racing. For training I just use tubes, but being as I have disc brakes I can just use the wheels off my 29er (crest)
Ooooo.....big road disc announcement from Magura next month.
one thing I'm total convinced of though is tubeless - whats the crack with tubeless and cx bikes?
It works, after a fashion. Nowhere near as well as MTB tubeless and there aren't the clear advantages that there are on MTBs. Fine for training or if you're a 'one-bike, can't be arsed with tubulars' person, but tubs every time if you're serious.
and there aren't the clear advantages that there are on MTBs
I'd argue that for me at least, they're even clearer - the lack of pinch flats which cursed my cx riding previously unless riding at silly high pressures. The downside is that it doesn't work as reliably (or it's not as easy to get it reliable) as mtbs because of the higher pressures.
I'm talking about racing, primarily. When tubs already exist, tubeless looks like a solution searching for a problem.
edhornby - Member
I'm not necessarily sure that discs will make it onto the UCI pro road racing scene, the practicalities of getting a punctured wheel out and a new one in - what about the ones on the top of the mavic neutral service car? force all teams to swap to discs at the same time?even if you standardise the rotor and position between the fork/dropout ends, you still run the risk of the racer being delayed while the mechanic trims the brake and then can't get back into a break/misses a time cut?
Have you ever used discs? These aren't issues at all.
In any event all the mfrs will go to discs and all the teams will have to follow.
the focus all seems to be on hydraulic brakes (and groupsets) I'd be more than happy to run mechanical disks on road/CX.
It'd be nice to have something much lighter than a bb7.
tektro lyra might be the first - but it's oem only (i think) at the moment
Lyras are easy to get loose. I have them
Lyras are easy to get loose
what are they like? i have read mixed reviews...
I have mixed feelings. They are very easy to adjust as you can set the static pad from behind and the moving pad from the outside via the cable. If only you could move the outer(moving) pad closer to the disc without changing the cale setting. To be honest they look the same as Avids in this respect. I do find that they loose adjustment easily but that must be pad wear. I also wonder if the fact that I use Campag levers reduces power. After all everyone raves about mini V's instead of canti's but having just fitted a set of those on another bike I am most disappointed. Maybe Campag levers pull a differnt amount of cable.
My ancient 105 road brakes are streets ahead of either my mini V's o 1 bike, the full V's with correct lever on another and the cantis on yet another. And thall with all 4 using Campag levers. Maybe I am picky but I expected cable discs to at least Match road brakes.
You will get a lot of people saying that Avid BB7's are the only thing worth having. I dunno. I would love to hear from someone who uses BB7's and Lyra's and how they compare.
Me, I'm working on a cable operated hydraulic set up that neater than the Hope or TRP set up.
Just ordered next seasons cross frame and it does not have disc mounts.
Avid ultimate canti brakes provide all the power I have ever needed. I can not see them taking off any time soon.
Samuri had a bit of a horror story about Lyras - something about the main thread effectively becoming unscrewed and then providing no braking... 😯
(FWIW, my BB7 road calipers with Campag ergos work great)
Surely the romoval of calipers from the fork crown bring some new aero opportunities at the top of the fork/Head tube area?
and I can't see a disc caliper/rotor being a problem aero/weight wise, especially given the 6.8Kg limit...
I was given to understand (when the UCI rule changes were announced) that the main percieved advantages for using discs on road and CX bikes was not about reducing overall weight but removing mass from the outer circumference of the wheel (lighter disc rims and allowing better profiled rims for use with tubs) and removing the issues of temperature build up at the rim on long (Alpine) descents knackering tubs (adhesives).
As for wheel changes, they'll be no slower/harder with discs, can't see where people are gettin these ideas from...
The biggest issue won't be technical (manufacturers have learned a lot in 15 years or so of making discs for MTBs) but overcoming the "fear of change" culture with some of the flat earther types I think...
Any idea what time scale we are looking at?
I wanted a new frame for next season, but going disc would mean new wheels and the hydro system as well. I can't see the point of investing in cables discs if hydros are around the corner?
And is there any benefit in discs for mid field punters like me.
I now think this is inevitable, but I think about my past seasons and I don't think discs would give me any time a lap. In fact I probably descend quicker on shitty brakes.
Dunno.
I think it was mentioned above, but bears repeating. Discs for road bikes would help when using carbon rims (which are getting more popular). Carbon rim braking performance drops off somewhat in the wet. This isn't such an issue for cross where the speed isn't so high and the braking requirements aren't so harsh.
Good point.
Then carbon rims are another issue, great tools in the right hands. Not so great in the hands of a slow 95kg enthusiast.
Blazin - any luck with those Hope V-Twin measurements??
Now I've calmed down, I think there will be a place for both cantis and disc.
For some reason I felt like discs were about to be imposed onto me, so whilst it might be the norm in the future for me there's no rush. Next bike will have cantis.
Quick edit; Looking at our colonial cousins during their Nats, the disc wasn't that obvious.
What does that say on the left leg??[img] 
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druidh i can't see that pic from here but I'm going to guess it's the shorts of the new Garmin Barracuda team kit...
Interestingly, for followers of the big disc-brakes-on-road-bikes debate, you'll find a Magura logo on the bib shorts of the new Garmin-Barracuda kit. * Just saying...
from [url= http://road.cc/content/news/50151-garmin-cervelo-changes-name-garmin-barracuda-reveals-new-kit-video ]road.cc[/url]
*I've edited out their mistake to save confusion 🙂
Just put the old cross bike back together - always has been disc-ed up.
[img][url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7174/6703513407_6511e0a984.jp g" target="_blank">
swapping wheels would be a problem.
I do it between bikes occasionally and because not all hubs rotors and calipers are identical you need to recentre by loosening the two bolts and then realigning the caliper.
Granted, not a hard job but much harder than just putting in a new wheel with rim brakes and slackening off the cable using the cam on the brake (quick fix).
Having said that it would be easy to fix within a team as they could standardise but not so for neutral service vehicles. Maybe they'll come up with something like wider pad clearance or make it possible to adjust (like they can already on some?). If there is money and advantage in it they'll work it out.
The advantages on long alpine days and wet days would be worth it though.
No-one seems to have mentioned the advantage discs may offer around mud clearance.
I recall one race last year (my local in North Devon) that featured a particularly boggy woodland section. I ended up having to dismount and clean the filth out from around the brakes on each lap. I was convinced at that point that cantis just weren't up to the job.
Obviously this wouldn't be a problem for pros with a jet-wash in the pits, but for a fat numpty like me, it'd really help.
Ive been wandering; when the UCI allow discs for road, would that be incentive for hub manufacturers to standardise? we all know cycling [i]needs[/i] more standards 😆 but it would get around neutral service issues...
Everyone seen the Cervelo P5 launch? Not the news expected from Magura but interesting all the same.
[url=
article[/url]
Magura/Cervelo's reasons for not doing road discs:
• Less weight due to [the fact that there’s no need for] stiffened frames and forks and special hubs with unsychronized forces.• Better aerodynamics – disc/rotor and calliper create a lot of drag.
• Rim brakes are UCI approved, disc brakes are not.
• Braking power. The biggest friction diameter on a wheel is the rim.
• Easy wheel change.
I hadn't thought about the [b]easy wheel change[/b] bit. It's a good point.
Maybe there'll eventually be some development done around this that we can then benefit from for mountain bikes.
I can imagine the aerodynamics point can be worked around - the caliper could be integrated fairly easily into the smooth profile of the fork leg I'd imagine.
Hydros by Magura on Road CC
[img] 
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And a nice powerfull Cycleworks jobbie. cable only.
[img] 
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Beautiful looking brake there oldgit.
well my new cx bike is built and its Frogglegs thats doing the stopping (or not) 😆
Somewhat disappointed by the new Magura brake when I saw it a few days ago. Hardly groundbreaking theyve just tarted up a 15 year old brake HS66/77 anybody.....
And TT only and thats where they will stay with no shifter.
Road compatible version out later in the year but sounds like it will be another cable-hydro conversion job. 🙁
OldGit - They are lovely, [url= http://brainfartsofabiketart.com ]the bike tart[/url] raves about them on a regular basis.
Speaking to U.S.E and there slimline minimal solution should be in the shops in the next few months. Another cable/hydraulic solution but quite an elegant one.
No idea on price yet but looks like you will be able to use any calipers so could be cheaper esp if you have a spare pair of MTB brakes knocking around.