Just looking at the Orange Stage 4 on the front page. An (un-sagged) BB height of 327mm ! Surely that's too low. Has anybody ever ridden anything that low ?
Yep. Had the original enduro sx that was 307mm
Wonder if they've measured to the bottom of the BB shell rather than the centre?
There is certainly something a bit weird about their geometry chart. They claim that figures are without sag and the BB height is based on a wheel with a diameter of 740mm. They claim exactly the same for the Stage 5 though. The 5 has a drop of 35mm and a height of 335mm. The 4 has a drop of 45mm and a height of 327mm. Surely if it is without sag and based on the same wheel, increasing drop by 10mm should reduce the height by 10mm too (not 8). I wonder if the height came out at 325mm but they thought that would scare too many people so added a couple of mm.
I had had the second iteration of the Smuggler. The first iteration had a quoted height of 330mm and there were a few complaints about it being too low. So they increased it to 335mm fir the second iteration. Even with 170mm cranks I still found that too low at times.
Got a Whyte 909 on order. Granted, it's a HT, but 297!
I'm sure orange know how to measure bb height, so ignore my previous comment.
I don’t trust BB height figures nowadays - there’s too much variation in tyre sizes. Between a 2.0” and a 2.6” you’ve got 15mm of BB height variation for the same BB drop and rim diameter.
If you go by BB drop and know the A2C length for the fork then you can make accurate comparisons.
My 27.5 hardtail is 45mm BB drop static, 60mm BB drop at sag. If the Four is 45mm BB drop static, it should be 70-80mm BB drop at sag. Subtract the 19mm greater wheel radius for a 29 and you’re at the same height. It’s low but not crazy low.
Fair point, but with a hardtail it's not going to change as much. At full compression on that Orange I reckon your bottom pedal may only be around 3cm off the ground. Ok you probably shoukdn't have your pedals vertical at full compression, but that still sounds pretty low.
At full compression on that Orange I reckon your bottom pedal may only be around 3cm off the ground. Ok you probably shoudn’t have your pedals vertical at full compression, but that still sounds pretty low.
There are plenty of bikes out there that will smack a pedal on the floor at full compression with the cranks vertical, and even more if you happen to be leant over in a corner like that.
There are some DH bikes that will come dangerously close to smacking the chainring/bashguard on the floor at full compression if the ground is anything but dead flat!
I've got and had some low* bikes, you get used to it...mostly...every now and again it can bite you if you forget or have been riding something else for a while.
* < 330mm, with ~140mm of travel
I had a quick look at the Segment for comparison. It looks as though the original version had a height of 330mm, but they increased this to 335mm with the second version. So, presumably they felt 330mm was too low. Although they've now gone to 327mm on the Stage 4.
With my Smuggler (335mm) I found that it was fine most of the time and you do adapt, but there were still occasions where it would catch me out or just be annoying, such as trying to pedal along a rut or eroded path.
I've got an Aeris with 26" wheels / big tyres and the bb's about 330 which is plenty low enough. Same as the blur tr I had before. They are / we're very stable and you just get used to riding that low!
My mk2 Segment doesn’t seem to bash the crank arms anymore than other bikes I have had.
That's the one with the 335mm BB height though, right? The BB drop on the Stage 4 is 10mm more I think.
Just correcting my own error 🙂
As far as I can tell the BB drop on both the Mark 1 and Mark 2 Segment was 40mm. For some reason the BB height for the Mk1 was listed as 330mm but for the Mk2 it was listed as 335mm, even though both were supposed to be based on the same 740mm diameter wheels (and measured without sag).
For the Stage 4 the BB drop has increased to 45mm. Based on the figures for the Mk1 Segment (and the Stage 5) that should make the BB height 325mm with the 740mm wheel. But based on the Mk2 Segment it would be 330mm. Maybe that's why they quote it as 327mm.
I realise that I'm talking about a few mm, which makes no difference, but it bugs me that the published geometry charts are inconsistent. If you are going to quote figures to the nearest mm then they should be accurate to the nearest mm.
I've got a Patrol running 150 at the front, and a Whyte 901. Both are pretty low, and took a bit of getting used to. Including one very nasty pedal strike related stack. However, now I'm used to it I hardly ever hit anything, and instead reap the stability benefits.
An aeris 120 runs 120mm of travel (rather than 110 on an S4) and has a BB height of 330, which would make it the equivalent allowing for sag etc... so I would say its a good BB height 🙂 But then I would wouldn't I?
Thanks Ben, always good to get a manufacturer's view. I shall now go in search of Aeris 120 reviews to see if I can find anybody who complained about the low BB 🙂
>I realise that I’m talking about a few mm, which makes no difference, but it bugs me that the published geometry
>charts are inconsistent. If you are going to quote figures to the nearest mm then they should be accurate to the
>nearest mm.
Rear shocks are toleranced to +/- 1mm for length, and +/- 1mm for stroke. Most linkage systems are 3:1 ratio.
It's possible for there to be huge differences once things are built.