In an effort to improve my steeze rating, I decided to dedicate this evening to learning to manual. After about an hour and a half of practicing, I felt that I made a noticeable improvement, but I still came home feeling very much defeated (and with blisters on my hands). I'd say that I went from being able to keep the wheel up for about 2 secs to 3-4 secs tops. Thinking about it, that's a 100% improvement! Self-congratulations aside, how long did it take you to go from no skill to MacAskill?
Can you wheelie perfectly and for as long as you like? That's how I learned. Once you nail wheelies you get a feel for the balance point and I could just pull up and sit in it. Pretty hard to describe really.
This is the teenage me I'm talking about here. I'm useless at it now but then I don't ride every single day anymore either.
38 years and counting
I managed to get the wheel up nicely coming down a fire road recently, nearly looped out and scared myself. Now I can barely get it off the ground again.
This ^^^^^^
So 48 years an counting
34 and cou...
I can only do either for a few seconds and by accident, so 40 years and counting
OP I learnt in a summer during uny around 15 years ago , so approx six weeks . That was probably half an hour a day, probably every day. I may have been stoned at the time too, which possibly helped or hindered my progress. I think like with many things you have to practice consistently . You'll get it!
An entire summer when I was 15/16. I got good, I am now not so good.
I seem to remember two strained arms/shoulders and a very sore back being the result though.
I can't do a Danny Mac down the road, but can reliably and accurately get front wheel up on the trail when needed, for enough time to land rear wheel first or pump obstacle.
Are you using your hips to lift the front wheel?
I am completely useless at manuals, last time I tried some dedicated practice in a carpark, I looped out the back but managed to land on my feet..the bike spin through and absolutely mullered my calf resulting in a lump the size of an orange, the calf turning yellow, I could hardly walk for 2 weeks.
43 years and counting
It would be a useful skill. On my way to work I have a set of 4 steps that I can just ride straight up at speed if I'm on a full sus.
On my fatty though you have to be going just the right speed . Too fast you get bounced into orbit ,too slow you won't make it. Was thinking about buying suspension forks maybe I will try to learn some skills.
I switched from BMX to MTB last year, could manual the BMX like it was nothing for miles, cant manual or wheelie the MTB for love nor money!
I need to hang off the back more and use the brake instead of keep the front wheel low and pump with legs, but it just isnt clicking at the moment!
My kid's learning to wheelie at the moment. Let a nipper mate of his ride his bike and he pops a big wheelie straight away. You've either got it or you haven't! Or it takes some a lot more practice than others... I've never got it.
I think that slight fear of going over the back makes you stop doing the right thing before you ever get to the balance point, then the front wheel just plops itself back down again. That's what it feels like to me anyway.
[i]Knowing[/i] what to do isn't enough! Your brain and body have to let you!
You've either got it or you haven't!
I'm not being hectic but that simply isn't true. It's practice.
It is not advice on the internet or youtube videos (although these can be quite useful I guess) or skills courses. It is an investment of time.
If you commit regular periods of time to learning it you will get it. If you don't, you won't.
I've recently learned to trackstand... Was rubbish, rubbish, rubbish then it suddenly clicked.
Hoping the wheelie will come that way too, as I've been stuck in the rubbish phase for years (do need to practice it more though!)
Thanks for all your responses.
I don't have a problem getting the front wheel up - that bit I find easy.
It's finding (and holding) the balance point that I find tricky.
What I found helped though, was getting my arse down low and well over the back wheel. Makes sense to keep you centre of gravity as low as possible.
Another thing I found helped, was getting the front wheel up smoothly, rather than doing a massive pump which gets you off to a shaky start.
Perhaps I should try practicing on flats - I think there's probably a bit of mental block at the back of my mind, which keeps me on the low side of the balance point when I'm clipped in.
this, for me. I bought a BMX in part to help learn manuals. Getting the front end up a few inches is easy, but it doesn't reach the balance point. Give it a big push with the legs/hips, it comes right up, have to bail off the back then get scared and go do something else lol. Will keep trying, but definitely something to learn when you're a kid I reckon!I think that slight fear of going over the back makes you stop doing the right thing before you ever get to the balance point
You've either got it or you haven't!I'm not being hectic but that simply isn't true. It's practice
Full quote:
[i]You've either got it or you haven't! Or it takes some a lot more practice than others..[/i]
But thanks for repeating it.
Thats the trouble as you get older, what time you do have for the bike is often limited, so I suppose the question is, do I want to go for a decent ride or do I want to practice manuals?
Sadly for my skills its the former.
this is pretty good
I managed to do my first proper manual on the way home from Robbos in Morzine last week.
The key I discovered is to be absolutely smashed on Mutzig so you have no fear.
I haven't been able to repeat it since 🙁
Sorry , I said I wasn't trying to be hectic DezB!
Coolbeanz yes definitely learn with flats. As said an hour and a half isn't it enough time, I'd be utterly amazed if someone got it that quick. good riders are good for a reason! Keep up the good work!
[i]The key I discovered is to be absolutely smashed on Mutzig so you have no fear.[/i]
Will pass the tip on to the 14 year old! 😆
[i]I said I wasn't trying to be hectic[/i]
Dunno wot dat meenz! 😉
[i]this is pretty good[/i]
Except it makes me want a wee!
Get some flats and learn to push through with your hips rather than trying to do it using arms. Keep your arms straight and think about where your bum is to get an idea of the movements needed.
I can't even wheelie any more, in fact I can barely bunny hop.
Back in the day when I first started biking, bikes seemed to be much easier to get the front wheel off the ground. I remember we use to set up 'high jumps' to bubby hop over, i could clear about a foot on my old rigid MTB.
Nowadays I doubt I could clear a curb.
Knowing what to do isn't enough! Your brain and body have to let you!
This is pretty much it for me. Well that and being older 🙂
I know what to do in theory. I also know that I can lift the wheel as high as I need to in practice because I've gone far enough to loop out and land on my arse three times. But the last time hurt and now there is that little switch in the back of my mind that seems to prevent me from committing. When I was younger I could just turn that switch off, but now it would take drugs 🙂
It is something that I've been working on a bit recently but funnily enough I find it almost impossible if I go out to practice it i.e. find a nice flat bit of ground etc. It's much more likely to happen if I'm just flowing down a bit of trail without a care in the world and just decide to pop over something for a laugh.
It's encouraging to hear that so many people struggle with it though. I used to think that it was a skill I'd have to get before being able to ride anything beyond a red route. But I see so many people who can ride stuff way above my level but still can't hold a manual.
I too struggle with the commitment side of getting your weight far enough back.. the above looks like a good way to get over that!
Proper "manualling" is like the fabled keepy uppy we did as kids. Getting the front wheel off the ground for 2 seconds is like doing 10 keepy ups. That was my limit then, as is probably my limit now. Still, I was good at "proper" football, not the showmanship shit. And I enjoy "just" riding my bike(s).
I look at videos of riders doing all this stuff and really can't figure out how they make it look easy. Sure, they put the practice in. I don't. I also know that doing a 3 second manual on flat counts for nothing when trying the same on a 1ft drop.
I'll keep trying and maybe one day I'll get there.
Started trying 2 years ago, but I get bored too easily.
After 5 mins I just think F* it and go back to pedalling since i find that much more fun that screwing around.
Since its all about weight transfer, weighing next to nothing certainly doesn't help, especially on bikes with heavier front ends.
oh wow frogstomp that video is awful! comedy gold!
I learnt to Wheelie at around 13-14 and can still wheelie for miles to this day (almost 30 years later)
Manuals tho... not a chance, i try every single damned ride and still can't do it for more than 3-4 seconds. even that is once in a blue moon.
I too struggle with the commitment side of getting your weight far enough back.. the above looks like a good way to get over that!
Funnily enough I have tried sticking my bike in the turbo (back when I had a bike with QR) and I ended up doing exactly the same as the guy in the video. I could lift the bike up as high as I wanted by pointing my toes, standing tall and never shifting my weight back too far i.e. the opposite of what you need to do when you are actually riding the bike 🙂 It must be something to do with the rear wheel being fixed that just seems to require a totally different technique to the one you actually want to perfect.
^^^ he's just yanking up on the bars without really moving his bodyweight back. Actually looks more similar to the technique when you see someone do a massive bunnyhop!
Whilst that video is pretty dire, it could be a useful starting point in actually finding your balance point without looping off the back....
This thread inspired me on my commute home today. The results didn't.
Just about cracked wheelieing after a year of trying on and off, still not 100% comfortable but getting there. the trick I found is to break it up into little parts rather than trying to crack the whole thing. First thing is get used to covering your rear brake, so deliberately pull the front wheel up past the tipping point and learn to feather the rear rather than panicking and grabbing a fist full of brake. This gets you used to being around the balance point and not panicking if you over-cook it and start falling back.
Then start to learn how to pull the wheel up properly without pulling with the arms or using too much power in a low gear. Aim to keep arms straight - I found that if I pulled with the arms i'd get the wheel up, but immediately be going off to one side, or if used too much power in too low a gear, once you got it up you were in too low a gear to continue.
Then just practice keeping in a straight line and correcting any left to right deviation - this is where i'm at now, but feeling pretty close to cracking it and that'll be wheelies ticked off the list.
My manual practice has been all about getting that L-shape and trying to use my legs to manage the balance point, I can feel it, but just not spent enough time practicing and honing it while i've been working on wheelies. However I can manual well enough to get over an obstacle or large puddle out on the trail, which is the real practical use of a manual.
It's good fun though.
From the comments read here I can manual mtb or BMX longer than all of you.
Haven't ever thought about how long it took to learn. Sorry. It was a long time ago. and I was just having fun. I manual every ride. I still ride almost every day.
What I can't do is hold a manual using my rear brake to hold the balance point as many mtbers do. I learned manuals brakeless. it makes long downhill manuals end up very high speed.
Wobbliscott- You don't actually need to use that "L" shape at all to initiate a manual and hold it. I never have. ever. all that's required is a push/kick forwards with the legs through the thighs while simultaneously hanging back from your bars.
The "L" shaped advice seems like it has been added by skills tutors in order to find a repeatable teachable technique which forces you to push your legs while moving your weight backwards. This does not mean it's the only correct technique.
most mtb riders are not dynamic enough on their bikes and do not have strong enough muscles to manual comfortably when learning.
Plenty mtb skills coaches can't manual very well at all.
Ask for a refund if you ever find yourself on a course with one who can't.
Seriously. (it's a basic skill).
Bookmarking.
There are many variables that affect how long it takes one to master manually, of which a few are controllable i.e.
Pedals - greatly helps to have flat ones, gives more confidence that if you overcook it you can slide off the back rather than falling on your arse.
Tyres - large ones with fairly low pressure creates a large contact patch which enlargens the balance point, making it easier to find it and learn what it is like being in the zone.
Seriously. (it's a basic skill).
Just riding a bike is a basic skill. Manuals and wheelies are advanced for most, similar to learning kickflips, shove it's, ollie etc on a skateboard.
I've questioned if I'll ever be able to initiate a manual promptly enough on the trail to be a useful tool over obstacles.
Pre-load/ chest to the forks, straight arms, slide weight back 'L' shape.. blahblah.
By the time I've done all that I'll have plowed through said obstacle, gone over the bars and met a fiery death.
From the comments read here I can manual mtb or BMX longer than all of you.
haha wow! Straight in there!
I do agree however it's a basic skill
I've questioned if I'll ever be able to initiate a manual promptly enough on the trail to be a useful tool over obstacles.
Conversely it's only on the trail that I can ever actually accomplish any sort of useful manual, manualling ditches or depressions or puddles etc.
Probably because in reality those are only 2 second manuals, and the depression/puddle/ditch/whatever actually helps the process because it lets the back wheel dip and move forward a little.
Either way, it's good enough for me 8)
From the comments read here I can manual mtb or BMX longer than all of you.
haha wow! Straight in there!I do agree however it's a basic skill
You guys are my heroes 🙄
Why the eye roll?
It's IMHO a basic skill for mountain biking, not for riding a bike.
A manual front wheel lift (which is different to a front wheel lift ) can last two seconds, it doesn't have to be 30 secs manual out of a table top jump.
[i]a basic skill for mountain biking[/i]
It's a [i]useful[/i] skill for mountain biking. Doesn't mean you can't mounain bike if you can't wheelie. That would make it a basic skill.
It is a basic skill for showing off to chicks down the park though.
Guy up there's gotta be GW, hasn't it...?
The moniker's too obvious so maybe I'm wrong.
I do agree however it's a basic skill
I've never found a trail i couldn't get down in some form, and I can't manual at all
I think its far from a basic skill, more like an advanced one.
I'd class cornering as a basic skill!
I'm going to build me a manual bike at the weekend.
29 front wheel, 26 back, reversed stem, high bars and no chain.
Shall wait til it's dark and fail miserably.
twisty - MemberThere are many variables that affect how long it takes one to master manually, of which a few are controllable i.e.
It's a lot easier to learn on a hardtail too
I think its far from a basic skill, more like an advanced one.
I'd class cornering as a basic skill!
I'd also class manuals (only wee ones) as basic, along with jumping but that's just me.
...oh and 47 and still learning/practicing. There's a 2km path that's flat or gently down sloping that i practice on on every local ride. I can't wheelie (never practiced) for shit but can manual ok.
Guy up there's gotta be GW, hasn't it...?
Ha, that was my first thought too
I can't produce a decent manual on the road, but on a trail I'm quite capable of lifting a wheel over whatever I need to / bunny hopping on flats etc.
However, in the past this has been all upper body as hats worked fine. Since I swapped to a new slack enduro style bike it's much harder - so have been concentrating on pushing forward with hips / legs to get back where I was.
Had a go on a 'normal' length bike the other day and literally hurled myself off the back of it as the front popped up so quickly.
Need to continue practising manuals on the new bike as I understand it's almost an essential part to building up to being able to jump well.
Goodness, all this talk of whether it is a basic skill or not.
Manualing is a technique which requires some skill to accomplish, the the level of accomplishment in the technique increases with increased skill.
Skill is developed through practice, whether it is a basic or difficult technique for you mostly depends on how you spend your time on the bike.
Interesting vids above. This weekend at Swinley expect to see plenty of 40-something blokes on T-130's and Bird Aeris with stems the wrong way round. Perhaps a new standard for the future.
The show-off sustained manual is not a basic skill. Lifting the front wheel up enough to clear say a small puddle is more a basic skill 🙂
Can you get over a log/rock/puddle/drop without pedaling or pulling back on the bars but by using your hips and feet? If so you can probably manual enough for it to be useful.
There was a film of someone on here a while back, I think it was Bike Park Wales, on him going really fast and then crashing out and breaking his collarbone on a drop where his front wheel just disappeared down over the drop. If you can manual I guess that kind of crash would be a much less common as the tension of your arms and push forward of you feet keep the bike from nose diving and mean the front wheel is light and back wheel flowy so you are less likely to get thrown forwards.
After trying for ever on Sunday to manual it finally twigged. It's not about 'having' your weight over the back wheel it's about 'moving' your weight back. So, keep weight forward then smoothly and swiftly move it back.
It twigged after spending half an hour riding round hanging off the back trying to lever up the bars like a baggy-shorted chimp!
My back and arms have only today stopped aching from an hours worth of 'manuals' on Sunday. I'm still crap at it but the basic technique is there.
6h 55mins to learn to wheelie 100m, must be similar for manuals
More aimed at the other guy who appears to reside on a throne of pure liquid awesome. Laughing at us mere mortals because he's so rad and can manual for four weeks.
Don't think he was laughing or claiming to be awesome, just pointing out the facts as he sees them. He even offered good advice on what to do to help someone learn. How you interpret that is up to you i suppose.
His opening and closing statements were a bit much, but I was being petty hence the edit. Now your post looks mental as a result. 😀
That wheelie video is interesting. I would argue that it took nine days to learn them, not the quoted 7 hours.
I can't reference any peer reviewed scientific papers but I think I'm right that you continue learning when you are not doing something. Like the brain processes the information when not practising . So the rest inbetween is still learning to wheelie. Or that could be total b0llicks of course.
Still 9 days is impressive!