[Closed] How important is weight, really?

I think the question was, 'is it worth it?' rather than they weren't allowed to

But there's always a lot of sneering. A fat person will go up hill quicker on a lighter bike than a heavier one, so yes it is worth it, no?

Lightweight stuff is boring though. It's better to spend your money pimping your bike rather then dieting it. CK and thomson all the way.

Yeah, you're right, those rare Thomson posts are way more exciting and bling than a hand made to specification Schmolke TLO...

A heavier bike/rider will go downhill quicker, as the ratio of weight to air resistance is larger.

^Only true in part.^ If the rider just free wheels down a straight hill and reaches their max velocity then I agree the heavier man+machine will be able to achieve a higher max speed as more momentum lets you punch through the air resistance.

But if more weight equalled more speed. Downhillers would be riding iron girders and looking like Ronnie Coleman wouldn't they?

Ride what you can afford. But try a much lighter weight bike with sim geometry to your current set up and then ask the same question.

Slightly offtopic but related

My Thompson Elite = 202g Easton EC70 = 215g. No point making that purchase then.)

Easton Haven Bar though, saves me 90g over my EA70 by itself. Looks like a purchase could be made this afternoon 🙂

Like I said, is it worth it - lol.....

But then New Ultimate post = 120g.

There's things that are perceived as light, and those that are [i]actually[/i] light 🙂

iDave - if only it were 14lbs round me belly! More like 40lbs so yes I agree. The guys I ride with often say, well you keep up cos of how light your bike is (my RB is a PX carbon so weighs about 18lbs with nothing on it) compared to their steel ones which are probably 5 to 10 lbs heavier. I point out that I carry about 4x the difference in bike weight on my bod.

I like the way I can manouvre my lighter bike on the trail compared to its lardier brother (one's 24.5lb t'other 28.5lb). Also, contrary to popular opinion ^^^ it rolls faster downhill than my heavier mate on his heavier bike.

In the last 24 hours I've been accused of being a weight weenie by 3 people simply for buying standard XTR brakes rather than the Trail version :-\

njee20 - do you know of the best foam grips - Ritchey Ergo's?

(another 100g saving over my ODI's, marvellous...)

P.S. I've saved 1/2lb in one afternoon *eats cake", oh, no I haven't....

niggles:
- stick to one unit....this country is metric, I suggest we use g & kg. Oh and mm for sus travel. (But miles for distance obviously. Kms or, if you are really annoying, 'clicks', are just too small)
- occasionaly work out the percentage change not grams....thompson elite from EC70 mentioned above(assuming bike originally at 11.5kg) reduces bike weight by .... 0.11%. Assuming Kryton is 80kg, that would be a 0.014% total saving...you go for it Kryton 🙂
- Weight is a nice, neat, easy-to-compare-on-the-internet variable. If manufacturers posted Tensile Strength or Nm/degree deflection data, we'd all be comparing that...but they don't so we can't. So we have Weight Weenies.com but no StiffnessWeenies.com. Hmmm

My inbred is about 34lbs but feels lighter when I'm riding it than my old Marin which is 28lbs
My road bike 24lbs goes up hills slightly faster but goes down them slower (this might be due to the crap roads though)as my inbred feels totally planted and rides over bumps with ease

ooOOoo

Close - bike was 30.3lbs at the last meausre, I'm 82kgs.

See latter post though, it'll be 30.1 soon - not bad for 150mm bike, but I'me determined to get it under 30 🙂

ooOOoo again - I see whwere you went wrong - I already have the Elite. The changes are:

EA70 Bars to Easton Havon Carbon = 90gs
Foam grips from ODI lock on's = 100gs

Let me know what the percentage is - cheers!

The little dig at biffers is light hearted, I've been one myself in the past. Since I stopped racing in 1994 I've never weighed any of my bikes or any components, it seems utterly pointless. If a tyre got me up a hill on Cannock Chase 12 seconds faster than another tyre, so what? What was I planning to do with that 12 seconds? I've had wonderful days riding on ancient rigid steel bikes that were very heavy, but the riding is what it's about. Saving 250grams - half a bag of sugar? So what?

njee20 - do you know of the best foam grips - Ritchey Ergo's?

Best is pretty subjective, I don't like the shape of the Ritcheys at all! I've got Bontrager XXX Lites which are nice; light, cheap and comfy, what more can a grip do!? They're pretty thin though, so not for everyone.

Sure weight matters, why slog around more fat than you need to.

Simple changes can make a great differance in feel and loose some poundage at the same time, but really theres a lot a rider can do to minimise the effort of carting a bath tub around with you.
Rider Fitnes
Change the wheels/tyres

njee I've not answered your point because your are just being silly now (and just trying to deflect from mine)

iDave I agree it's daft to spend money lightening your bike to save time as a fat weekend warrior, but if it changes how the bike rides and you like that then that's different.

Geometry is everything.

I like a light bike, but in reality one less water bottle or a couple of minutes longer sat on the toilet has the same effect. Appealing to arguments based on energy and power are moot, unless your fat content is <5% and you are sub 60 kilos.

Those Boris bikes weigh a ton, but the ride is sublime. My track bike weighs nothing and is as twitchy as you like. My son's best friend enjoys Swinley on his Apollo.

Uphill, my tandem is at least 50 kilos including luggage (son2). I could probably lose 5 kilos going for a carbon bling machine, but getting the boy to work harder is the real issue 😆

I like the way I can manouvre my lighter bike on the trail compared to its lardier brother (one's 24.5lb t'other 28.5lb)

so that's 2 identical frame/fork combos, with the same tyres, bar height width etc, just built with different components is it?

Or are we in fact talking about two different bikes with different geometry and one being more manoeuvrable than the other? (and also being the lighter of the two)

If you're talking 10 - 15lbs difference then yeah, one will be a pig uphill, and argy-bargy'ing round corners compared to the other, but when you're talking 2-3lbs (maybe even 5lbs) difference I call shenanigans and that most of the difference you're feeling is in geometry/tyres/position*

*unless of course you are comparing 2 almost identical bikes jsut with different weights

njee I've not answered your point because your are just being silly now (and just trying to deflect from mine)

Why? My race wheels spin better when I drag the brakes slightly than my others do with no braking, fact. As you like those so much! You are telling me there's no difference, so are you saying I'd go no slower if I dragged the brakes, or if the bearings seized? I'm not pretending there are epic gains, but like I said, if it's 5w I'll take that, it's free.

djaustin - Member

Geometry is everything.

my tandem is...

My inbred is about 34lbs but feels lighter when I'm riding it

If you're talking 10 - 15lbs difference then yeah, one will be a pig uphill, and argy-bargy'ing round corners compared to the other, but when you're talking 2-3lbs (maybe even 5lbs) difference I call shenanigans and that most of the difference you're feeling is in geometry/tyres/position*

To me it is yes. I once pedalled a 36lb Turner RFX to the top of Walna Scar (while its owner PUSHED my carbon stumpy up!) & it nearly put my lights out. Never again.

I think it would be more worth it though to the Sunday rider if they get rid of the football they keep up their jumpers before ordering the Sid World Cups.

I actually agree with GW for once, you can definitely feel 1lbs, let alone 5!

[i]It amuses me how lots of biffers are obsessive about how much their bikes weigh when they have an extra 14lbs+ under their shirts[/i]
Absolutely true.
have a sh!t & a haircut before you ride if your'e that bothered.

I recently went from a 3.5lbs(ish) Giant XTC frame to a 4.5lbs(ish) Decade Virsa Prestige frame. So weight's not that much of an issue for me. Then again, I am 15st, but 3.5st lighter than I was.

I would though like to point out that the bikes we ride today are as good as they are due to trickle down of technological advancements, much of which will have been bought/financed by people who probably didn't really need it. If you've earned the money, spend it how you like. Especially in the current economic climate.

does the amount you all notice equipment induced changes in your bike's handling etc change in direct proportion to the cost of those changes.....??

On a mountain bike I don't think it's a huge problem. My current bike's probably 7-10lb heavier than my old one and I can climb fine on it, even with its relaxed geometry - still yet to need the granny ring and wish I'd made it 1x9 tbh. It's about 40lbs at the minute.

On a road bike I think weight does make a difference tohugh.

does the amount you all notice equipment induced changes in your bike's handling etc change in direct proportion to the cost of those changes.....??

it means if you spend a lot on your bike are you more inclined to [i]think[/i] it's made a positive difference - human nature being how it is.....

Galileo proved back in the 16th century that two objects with different weights fall at exactly the same speed. Heavier things do not descend faster, per se.

It's a moot point whether the extra momentum of a heavy bike helps ride through obstacles without stalling, or if a light bike helps you manoeuvre over and around them. DH racers seem to be slashing the weight of their bikes.

buzz - thats only true if you ignore air drag. when you include air drag it do make a difference

I recently changed my road frame and wheels from steel with guards an open pro to a pimp carbon jobbie same groupset and contact pts, bike went from 22lb to 17lb. Geometry will have changed too but the differece in speed was over 5%. No possible weight saving was avaliable from the rider

Dave, I don't "think", I know it does and it has nothing to do with the money spent, choose one or two components at random and i'll try and explain my answer in some sort of context.

TJ - terrain, conditions and rider make much more difference.

I actually agree with GW for once, you can definitely feel 1lbs, let alone 5!

Bloody hell, I agree with the both of you for once... What's happening? 😕

You're wrong! switching to a 150-200g heavier/lighter rear rim is instantly noticable (if you're the type of rider that actually notices stuff).

Spot on. A change of tyre or rim is very easy to notice in effect. One bike at 25lb against an identical bike of 26lb, with the weight evenly distributed over it's entirety would be less easy to tell apart (though I'd wager I could still tell which was the heavier), but localised heavy components especially if they're rims/tyres/tubes can be very easily felt.

As both njee and GW have said, to a point lightweight is better. For njee that point is a 20lb full sus bike, for GW that's a 28lb hardtail. We're all different, and we ride differently, but as long as what we ride is for for our own purpose, you wouldn't choose your bike to bs heavier than lighter!

Frankly it's all a load of guff I think or that could be the wine talking. But if your a fit lad/ girl your going to hold your own.

"MTB is the new golf"

🙂

So is a golf a sport for fat biffers going on about how light their clubs are?

Do Superstar make acid green anodised clubs?

Do On One make minging carbon clubs for tightwads who know the price of everything and the value of nothing?

Where is my nearest course? How do I join?

I actually agree with GW for once, you can definitely feel 1lbs, let alone 5!

My point wasn't about noticing weight, it was about the fact most of the people were are comparing *different* bikes at different weights, not the *same* bike at different weights, and that I'm willing to bet in those cases most of the 'feeling faster/more manoeuvrable' was down to geometry/tyres etc. rather than one bike being simply a few pounds lighter.

I am not suggesting that lopping 3 lbs off of a bike will not be noticeable or make not make it feel better.

I'm just saying that comparing bike A at weight X and bike B at weight Y and saying one feels faster/more manoeuvrable cos its lighter is only looking at one factor, an not necessarily the most important one.

go put some nice low rolling resistance racy tyres on your 34lb bike and some super tacky minions on your 27lb bike and tell me which feels faster now down a dry trail.

weight is not everything, it has a part to play but not as much as some people seem to think unless you are talking BIG differences.

I swapped all my kit bar the gears from a steel 456 to a carbon one.

the carbon felt better under all conditions. Given that everything else had remained the same I can only assume that the weight reduction and/or frame material change were the cause.

Something definitely up mboy!

Saying it makes no difference is a bit like saying elite (or any) xc racers ride light bikes for the fun of it, and could easily go as fast on a 35lbs bike. Its not going to happen.

power to weight ratio people. If you want to go faster, reduce weight, increase power, or both!

see that's a pretty sensible comparison.

same geometry, same kit.

there you only changed 2 things as you say, weight and frame material.
I doubt simply "by the power of carbon!" it got faster or better so obviously it was weight.

but comparisons like "my 26lbs XC race bike is loads better than my 30lbs long travel hardtail, it must be down to the weigh" are a bit silly.

If you want to go faster, reduce weight

I agree, but I do not agree with

"If you want it to ride better, reduce weight"

faster yes, maybe in 95% of circumstances, but faster does not necessarily mean feels better to ride.

We're back to the same old thing of comparing racers and non-racers, they have different goals. I would never try and drop 200g off my rims to save 30 seconds on my weekend ride at the expense of being able to take that rock garden I like at full pelt...

Nor would many racers! I would never choose kit that made me adapt my riding style, that's daft.

indeed, and unless you have eleventyone million pounds to spare it is very difficult* to lose weight off components while keeping the same strength/stiffness/longevity.

*not impossible,

Obviously there are some areas for some riders which are easier to lose weight from, but depends on you, your bike, your trails and your riding style as to where those places are.

The bike I ride the most is currently sitting at about 33lbs. I know there is about 2lbs that could be saved by swapping a few bits about without affecting my ride, but the cost to do it would be in excess of £300, and personally that's not worth it to me.

I'm actually about to add a little weight because I'm finding the rear rim (819) a bit too narrow. wont make me faster but it will make the bike ride better.

Ah good morning, I see we have a nice summary:

a) For Sunday league riders its less important as we're not racing against a clock, and its all about hauling the bike and ourselves around with small social competitiveness in the mix.

Some people rather like to have "nice things" or prefer the ride of a "light" bike but the jury's out as to whether its the weight or the Geo/frame/build which is the comfort factor.

For Sunday league then, it remains a personal preference, or a judgement as to whats best for the rider / thier bike.

I.e. its actually not that important, we just like to think it is / blame an excess during falure