[Closed] How important is a competitive bike XC

What is it about xc geometry that makes it quicker? A steep head angle is the most obvious but that is handling not speed?

most slack head angle fanatics only bang on about it out of fashion and are in actual fact much slower descenders than any decent XC racer.

the courses are not generally technical enough for it to be much of a hinderence..

They're as technical as most people's local trails tbh.

As for geometry making it quicker - not sure. It seems to me that having a steeper seat angle and having your body stretched out a bit more uses different muscle groups, or uses them better - but apparently the cycling press has experimented and found this not to be the case, I'm told?

It certainly seems far harder to pedal hard on an upright hybrid type bike. Ok so it's less aero but the effect is the same winching up hills.

I have no idea what "most people's local trails" consist of.. so I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

I do know what most XC courses consist of though.

There seems to be a misconception that XC race courses are smooth and uninteresting. This is not the case, generally. That is my point.

I have no idea what "most people's local trails" consist of.. so I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.

Most people deem XC race bikes inadequate for their local riding, whilst most XC race courses are similar to the stuff most people ride most of the time.

Lots of mosts in there, because we're into sweeping generalisation territory.

I'm interested though... what do "most XC courses consist of"? If replicating road geometry is the name of the game, and rim brakes are more than adequate, why don't people win on CX bikes?

Too bumpy I'd imagine.

Most people deem XC race bikes inadequate for their local riding,

Reckon it's that most people are inadequate for an XC race bike for their local riding 🙂

If it helps I am substantially faster on a loop at afan or cwmcarn on my scale vs my nomad. by a lot. I am faster on the descents with the nomad but not actually by that much and the scale destroys the nomad on the climbs and along bits.

You feel alot more beaten up on it, and it is alot harder to ride fast than the nomad.

Unless I go with my weekend warrior mates I prefer to take the scale round afan, and you can't say that is not rough (in places...)

some "people" could win on CX bikes.

some courses a CX bike would be a distinct advantage, others not so... but there's certainly nothing on any XC race course that requires suspension, slack angles or disc brakes to negotiate safely.

But it's not about riding it safely, it's about riding it fast... Which was the last XC race you did?

.....I missed the early bits.Who is the idiot??

Everyone by all accounts, we should be riding rigid rim brakes super steep XC bikes on courses that don't have any tech features at all apparently as XC courses don't.

But then again they might and that would make a road bike faster or something with at least 129.56mm of travel fore & aft is quickest...... I think

Clearly not one of these "do or die" ones you seem to think you do. 😆

Ah...I see.

Now I have a £1200 off the peg 29er.

What is the bike OP? More importantly, what colour is it and does it have V's? 😀

there's certainly nothing on any XC race course that requires suspension, slack angles or disc brakes to negotiate safely.

Any XC course? Really?

Try riding this, [b][u]repeatedly, and fast[/u][/b] on a rigid bike.
[img] ?1397439939[/img]

[img] [/img]

Try? 😆

bone dry man made piss easy rockgardens? er..

you're actually serious, aren't you?

Go on then we can't bear the tension any longer... post up your more suitable XC racer

there's certainly [b]nothing [/b]on [b]any[/b] XC race course

That's an XC race course. And if you think that's really

piss easy rockgardens

when ridden a WC XC pace,

then all I can say is;

[img] [/img]

Duh... I know it's an XC race course.
Even the best WC XC guys descend those "for show" man-made piss easy rock gardens tentatively... so yes, when ridden at WC XC pace a steep rigid without discs would be just fine thanks.

[img] [/img]

What is the bike OP? More importantly, what colour is it and does it have V's

Me and my bike, just before a 3 hour evening XC in which I was 3rd in age (over 50) Off the peg except the saddle.
[img] [/img]

est WC XC guys descend those "for show" man-made piss easy rock gardens tentatively... so yes, when ridden at WC XC pace a steep rigid without discs would be just fine thanks.

Why don't they ride them then? Surely they'd be a benefit on the climbs, so why has no one won a men's World Cup XC race in the last decade with rigid forks or rim brakes?

Obviously most enduros would also be fine on these same steep, rigid, rim braked bikes, so where does that line exist? World Cup DH racing?

lol at the thought you'd need disc brakes to race XC

I do know what most XC courses consist of though.

you never did a Brownbacks race, proper XC

mtbel - Member

some "people" could win on CX bikes.

some courses a CX bike would be a distinct advantage, others not so... but there's certainly nothing on any XC race course that requires suspension, slack angles or disc brakes to negotiate safely

but don't let that get in the way of your trolling 😉

Lol at the riding gods.. Some folk seem to have no idea what they are talking about 🙂

[img] [/img]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Tried riding the 'piss easy' man made obstacles at Hadleigh Park?

Oh yeah, fully rigid with v brakes would definitely be fastest down there !

To be fair, when it's dry well set up v brakes work really well especially on ceramic rims.

Suspension forks are just faster on almost any course though.

I think mtbel must have lost his/her (but probably his) way from Pinkbike. They'll fit right in with the 'XC is easy and for pussies lol' attitude over there.

ha ha.. No I haven't lost my way padkinson. And no I don't think XC racing is for pussies at all, far from it. Neither is road racing or CX racing. But please don't kid yourselves that any of the courses used are in any way super difficult to ride. The man-made rock gardens in WC XC courses are put in place for show more than anything and are actually "designed" to be far easier to ride in comparison to natural rock gardens. If you have trouble with this concept so be it. but don't go crying "troll" at me because I don't share your lack of confidence to ride a few carefully placed and often cemented in boulders.

Just to clarify I'm not actually arguing that the use of front suspension won't be quicker over an entire lap. just that it's not required at all to ride the courses. Let's not forget this is a thread asking how important a highly competitive bike XC will be in a local super vets XC race.

If you still don't understand what I'm saying about not requiring discs, suspension or slack head angles to ride these courses I'll break it down for you using the man-made rock gardens as my example.
Suspension - each of these "rock gardens" has easy lines through and over the mainly rounded off well chosen strategically placed rocks. Suspension should allow you to ride through them faster but not by very much and good line choice is far far more important. XC race pace through these sections involves not making any mistakes or taking any risks so yes I am sure that exact "race" pace can be achieved on a rigid, V-braked bike there too.
Disc brakes - Why would you think you'd need disc brakes? Vs are perfectly adequate in power and there's absolutely no need for you to ever lock a wheel or drag your brakes through these "features" if you've chosen a good line through them.
Slack Head angle - what a slack head angle ultimately achieves is stability at speed! the fastest XC racers in the world rarely even reach 15mph through these sections.

Oldgit - Your bike will be absolutely fine!

Im not crying troll...$#@!end yes.Troll definately not.

And what happens when you have to go off line when overtaking folk? Like what happens in races and stuff?

That's a better response to his earlier response at least

And again, in similar vain you could ride would cup DH courses on a rigid v-braked bike too. It'd be very slow. But you could do it!

dirtyrider - Member
That's a better response to his earlier response at least

He's limited to one readable post a day 😉

in similar vain you could ride would cup DH courses on a rigid v-braked bike too

some of us have. not all that slowly either

and the ego is back, must be alcohol fueled

I feel a swoon coming on.

Jamie would know what to do.

Mtbel, what track and when?

I had a chop at fort william from the white wallride through the lower woods to the motorway on a surly km with track wheels and vbrakes.
I didn't race the dh enduro like that.
Jesse did race on a rigid spesh P2 alu frame on 8" discs his lap times where around 11.30-14mins the same rider on the same bike with a suspension fork came 4th overall one year with around 6min lap times.

I have raced a macavalanche and some woodland riders dh races on the rigid vbrake monkey.......... Discs would be much nicer 🙂 rock gardens are what one would call "exciting"

If serious about getting a podium then after skill, fittness and taking your current bike as far as you can, then it's time to splash the cash for a dedicated race bike fit for purpose.
As i don't worry about podiums i get to be weird and race a bike many wouldn't 🙂

Just an after thought, having had a chop at and racing a wc dh track.

I could ride fort william all right on my km.
Trying to do a multi lap or single timed race run at full pace is a different matter, first thing to go would be vbrakes in favour of discs and more burly wheels 🙂

Ft William 1995
Les Gets (Mont Cherry WC track) '96
Jesse knows the size, location and spacing of each and every one of those carefully placed rocks up there ;).. would have expected him to be a bit quicker than 11mins. On a one off race run (rather than multiple runs) I think he would be by quite a bit. do you know if he had to stop to shake out arm pump most runs?

Are you old enough to remember the Schwinn Cruiser Cups at the NPS? they were awesome to watch.. proper shit rigid bikes being hammered down National tracks by some seriously fast guys.

We're probably compete against each other.

I hauled my 25lb steel 29er round the Brass Monkeys and at the end of the series I could possibly just have picked up one place (5th to 4th in grand vets on my carbon race bike but would never have been in any danger of hitting the podium).

So marginal losses (weight, suspension damper performance, wheel stiffness, multiple gear changes, tyre performance)

Yeah.. one of the things holding an XC race bike (and rider) back in rocks would be their fragile wheel and tyre choices.

Mavic 121s and 2 tyres on each rim (bead cut off the inner one) kept our bikes rollin through the roughest shit with low enough pressures for grip in the days before proper DH casings and soft compound rubber.

les gets 😆 wide open fire road at the top and a bunch of switch backs near the bottom, no huge rock gardens there, did a season there in 2004, probably the worst but the most used track out there, pretty sure i could steerer a rigid down there