[Closed] How come all these nu-skool bikes are so heavy?

Chromoly stanchions weigh a tonne. See domains. Also, it doesn't take a huge R8D budget to make a good chassis. See the motorbike world for further info.

True, but at least it would last 10 years without a service. when was the last time you had your shocks on your car serviced?

you mentioned motorbikes but they weigh 200-300kg the cost of using expensive materials would be prohibitive.

Considering what you get for 7 grand is so much more for a motorbike than for a 7 grand mountain bike just re- enforces the point I was making

you mentioned motorbikes but they weigh 200-300kg the cost of using expensive materials would be prohibitive.

Not for WSB bikes, they still never bothered with titanium trellis frames although people unsuccessfully experimented with them. In the end alu frames still won.

There's not that much more to a trellis frame than a downhill bike. Titanium ones weigh about 5kg.

Considering what you get for 7 grand is so much more for a motorbike than for a 7 grand mountain bike just re- enforces the point I was making

7 grand motorbikes don't have Ohlins derived shocks and high/low speed damping on the front - or even rebound for that matter. They certainly won't have air-springs, titanium nitride coatings, blow off valves, or mid stack shims. They won't have carbon frames, they won't have carbon components and the brakes won't very adjustable. All these things together, come on motorbikes that 18 to 22 thousand pounds. Eg Ducati 1199's.

It's ok guys, I don't need to have the last word 😆 I'm off to bed, I've enjoyed the debate and good biking to you all. 🙂

treborrobert2 - Member

True, but at least it would last 10 years without a service. when was the last time you had your shocks on your car serviced?

Mine are a) probably almost as heavy as my bike and b) shagged but still doing the job. Most production cars are really unfussy about suspension, they know the shocks are expected to last the life of the car and only get replaced if they fail dramatically, they were decent performers when new but to replace them 10 years on costs as much as the car cost. So that's the performance target- even high quality street parts are like that. The everyday mtb performance target is way higher, you could totally build a huge hour-life, zero service damper but it'd be massive, heavy and low performance and no bugger'd buy it. It's like the everyday mountainbike has to be specced with what for cars or motorbikes would be race spec. We get the bikes we deserve

It's a bit like the difference between real Ohlins and street Ohlins, I like my hrcl but I don't kid myself it's a performance part- it's a durable road part with middling performance and decent adjustability. Oh and gold ano and a yellow spring, which is important. But it's about 30000 miles old and still functional with just one regas. Tools for jobs.

Street Ohlins stuff eg the FGRT's are easily as good as top quality mountain bike forks in terms of damping Northwind. The real race stuff is in a completely different league....

Yeah, but again size/weight, you could build a pushbike shock with that sort of longevity and performance and the entire bike press and bike buying public will shit the bed because it's 100g heavier and probably more expensive than the competition without any immediate benefits.

And since most folks never service mountain bike suspension til it breaks, long service life is a hard sell- people already think they have long service life, when what they mostly have is deteriorating parts. The hour lifespan of a bike with its first owner is also probably comparatively short so effectively first owner is paying the price for something future owner is likely to benefit from.

I think the other thing is it's hard to really compare street and mtb performance, the actual damping job's got to be pretty different in terms of cycles and forces and reactions.

Don't get me wrong- I think there's a really good argument for improving longevity of suspension parts on pushbikes, even if that comes with a weight, performance or cost penalty. I just think you'd find it very hard to sell it.

I have an XL Process 111 - I swapped over a few bits when I got it as I prefer Shimano to Sram and wanted wider bars and a different saddle. Some of these bits are probably a bit lighter than the OE bits, but not much. It weights just over 31lbs which is the same as my Honzo hardtail (which I realise has a big lump of a frame!).

The wheels are fairly heavy and I'm sure there are much lighter frames, but it's really stiff and has huge bearings.

The main thing for me is the way it rides. If it was lighter it may make it feel quicker still, but it does ride like a heavy bike and it's really not the bike that's limiting factor in our relationship! For me it's the confidence the bike gives me, how fun it is to ride and how well it fits me. Apart from some of the carbon "superbikes" don't most trail bikes [i]really[/i] weigh about 30ibs anyway?

OP - My advise would be if you fancy this type of bike, then test ride a few - don't let the should put you off. You can always make them lighter if you want.

Hicksy! Thanks for the insight fella... Planning to demo all on that list and a few more before I lay down my cash...

My 'Enduro' bike has 26" wheels and weighs 34lbs...still it has a CCDB, Reverb and Fox 36 forks...I love it!!!

rhayter -

Sorry, I've just realised a lot of my above post doesn't make any sense. Glad to hear you are going to test ride a few.

It was supposed to say - "it DOESN'T ride like a heavy bike" and "don't let the weight put you off".

I wish I could claim it was because I've been on the booze, but I can't!

Don't get me wrong- I think there's a really good argument for improving longevity of suspension parts on pushbikes, even if that comes with a weight, performance or cost penalty. I just think you'd find it very hard to sell it.

+1

The avalanche dampers have nice long service intervals, it's just a shame no one really builds forks like the old 888's these days.

I don't know whether I'd be happy with a steel stanchioned fork though, unless the worlds economy had collapsed and the bike was meant to last 20 years. Maybe they could build stanchions out of aluminium and wrap them in steel and then coat them, if steel is that much better in terms of stanchion wear.

The nice thing about dual crowns is that you can have stanchions replaced or recoated easily and at a lower cost than a CSU. You also get a considerably stiffer fork. All forks should IMO be dual crowns, single crowns are ridiculous - I don't do bar spins.

My ' enduro/am/only bike' bike weighs 32lb ,has 26 inch wheels , copious amounts of carbon fibre including the frame.

I guess I could get it down to 25-26lb ,but then it would be rubbish.

Its not the base material that provides the wear resistance its the coating, steel is generaly chrome plated whereas aluminium is anodised. Both are pretty tough. I suspect the reason we dont see so many trashed chromed stanchions is more to do with them being used purely on cheep bikes that dont see anywhere near the mileage or conditions 'serious' riders on expensive forks do.

LOCO has a photo of some trashed ohlins forks off a motorbike which usualy gets wheeled out for this debate.

I had a set of gold nitrided GSXR forks, the coating all dropped off, luckily it turned out it didn't do anything anyway, apart from make them look more gold.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

I suspect the reason we dont see so many trashed chromed stanchions is more to do with them being used purely on cheep bikes that dont see anywhere near the mileage or conditions 'serious' riders on expensive forks do.

i can confirm that RS steel stanchions are more or less bullet proof, not light though...

Modern full suss bikes might ride smoothly, but they are built from sh**e materials with so little technology (shocks aside) that tiny little companies with no R&D can compete. And mentioning shocks, they have no quality at all, stanchions made from cheese that wear through in 5 minutes causing leaks galore. They really should be made from cromoly like cars and motorbikes. The manufactures are laughing all the way to the bank

Modern bikes are engineered very well at all price points that would interest an enthusiast and certainly much better than they were 20 years ago across the board. Manufacturers laughing all the way to the bank? I very much doubt it, I reckon it's a tough industry to make ANY money out of. Lots of competition and a pretty small audience above the £1K price point. How many people do you reckon are queuing up to by a £7K mtb v a £7K motorbike?

As for materials, there is nothing inherently wrong with using aluminium alloy (you see quite a lot of it in aeroplanes) and carbon is always king for stiffness to weight ratio, but costs a whole lot more. In most engineering applications titanium is used as an expensive alternative to steel rather than aluminium or carbon.

Anyway I'll be buying a carbon framed trail bike shortly, which should weigh well under 30 lbs as it happens, but it doesn't mean that all heavier bikes are crap. To me it seems like the industry is far more tuned towards making excellent riding bikes rather than super lightweight bikes, but at the highest price points they are as light as they realistically can be for their purpose.

Also, if you neglect a steel fork, it'll get damaged. I look after my suspension so it lasts for years. If your suspension is wearing fast, either that specific fork has a problem, or you're a dobber, and either of those things will kill a steel fork almost as fast

I love some of the weights being thrown about here, surely they must be small frames?

I've had a pretty light 150 2013 FS, whilst it was a great bike i broke it. Many times. Snapped chainstay and seat stay. So now i've built a 2014 alpine, with all hard as nails stuff that I know works and its coming in at 32.5lbs. Not bothered as i know i can smash this thing into anything with confidence.

Some people get hung up on weight when how it rides is more important.

Here's nu-skool for you. A 30lb Pivot Phoenix.

They've clearly cut a corner with the shock to get that 30 number, but it's otherwise good to go.

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All forks should IMO be dual crowns, single crowns are ridiculous - I don't do bar spins.

You want dual crown forks just to make stantion replacement easier...? Right. Marzocchi used to have replaceable stantions on their single crown forks, did make life easier it must be said.

Must say I'm looking forward to treborrobert2's return to this thread, his contributions were a new sort of special!

You want dual crown forks just to make stantion replacement easier...? Right. Marzocchi used to have replaceable stantions on their single crown forks, did make life easier it must be said.

Must say I'm looking forward to treborrobert2's return to this thread, his contributions were a new sort of special!

Of course not, but they are stiffer and the upside is, is that they are easier to work on and keep going for many years.

Plus they look more radcore... 😆