[Closed] Hope-less brakes

My hope v4 brakes just been bled are leaking already.

Not been rebuilt properly after bleeding. It's wise to use a new seal kit etc.

He didn't bodge the seals or mess with anything to cause a leak, it's the brakes at fault.

Isn't that just the price of buying British? I'd happily put up with a bit of minor inconvenience like this to be able to support a long-standing UK-based company that have done more for cycling over the years than Shimano can even dream of.

It's a bit like buying a TVR. It's not about reliability but the experience. And equally, while I'd never buy Hope brakes myself - everyone I know who's used them has had issues at some point - I have a sneaking admiration for those who do.

I think once you stop thinking about Hope in the same terms as other brakes, it starts to make sense.

I think once you stop thinking about Hope in the same terms as other brakes, it starts to make sense.

So we have to make allowances for them being a bit shit just because they're British?

Phhhhhh. Fekkin havvin a laaarf entcha?

They're brakes. If they break but don't brake then they're a waste of time and money.

And they started leaking because they are shíte. He didn't bodge the seals or mess with anything to cause a leak, it's the brakes at fault.

Were they “shite” before he bled them which was coincidentally the point that they started leaking?

You know for sure that he hasn’t damaged a seal? Did he use any silicone grease on the pistons? Did he use a new seal kit? Did he use new washers on the banjo? Did he scratch the pistons? If all the seals are OK where else can they leak?

i think he was being facetious

Brilliant!

ah ok

im guessing you did the old - squeeze the lever , tighten the bolts to fit the caliper am i right ?

oh and ill buy anyones "shite" hopes for 20 quid 😉

as i said before good luck getting spares for your shimanos and dont get me started on avid ... siezed piston anyone ? - a life time of fixing the things has given me a hatred of them - at least they are fully rebuildable IF the 3 moons of saturn are aligned , you do a headstand and cross your toes to ensure fishers have the spares

He bled them because they needed bled! *duh* And they started leaking because they are shíte. He didn't bodge the seals or mess with anything to cause a leak, it's the brakes at fault.

But why did they need a bleed? Did he shorten the hoses? Or adjust the banjo angle? Either of these could require a bleed if not done right that would not hope's or the brakes fault. The only 2 leaks I've seen from hopes were 1/ a old set that needed a new seal, 2/ I overtightened a bolt on split the calliper, this sealed up when loosened though (with a small damp of silicon).

They really haven't advanced much in the last 10 year!

What brakes have, none are a complicated design, same applies to car brakes!

Even when they were working they have no power compared to shimanos

People really need to stop confusing bite with power! Casing point from an automotive view (yes I know but its the same idea), our Golfs servo brakes feel really powerful as they bite quickly, however my elise's non servo brakes are way more powerful but feel pathetic to start with.

oh and ill buy anyones "shite" hopes for 20 quid

Me too

brakes are crap unless carpark endos can be achieved !

So we have to make allowances for them being a bit shit just because they're British?

Do you think TVR are rubbish as well? Or Ducati? I think sometimes you just accept a bit of quirkiness as part of the user experience and the price for supporting a brand you admire. That's how I see it anyway. Personally I wouldn't buy Hope brakes, a TVR, a Ducati, an MG or, for that matter, Fox forks, but I can see why people do. So basically, yes.

Judging from this thread there's going to be a load going spare, so

nixie - Member

oh and ill buy anyones "shite" hopes for 20 quid

Me too

I will as well.

Do you think TVR are rubbish as well?

I like the cars, but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. Ducati are an entirely different kettle of fish.
I've got no problem with buying British, but I'm not stupid, so I don't buy crap just because its british. Otherwise yeah, I'm in agreement with your stance. That's by and large a list of stuff I won't buy 🙂

Me too, m4 caliper would be ideal.

Hope m4 for sale not 20 quid but open to offers 😉

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-hope-m4-brakes-6

i have a set of hope minis now in their 10th year of service, and they work as badly now as the day I got them

I guess we all like different things, I like to feel my brakes working using as little energy from my finger as possible, hence I no longer buy Hope.

No problems with Hope here either. Well - perhaps one. Over time it seems that the pads can become contiaminated every so slightly, taking the edge off the power. They seem to require cleaning. This hasn't happened on my XTs but they are on my race bike which has had much less use than the other bikes.

Mono Mini brakes that boiled in Wales and dumped me in a ditch (they couldn't handle braking twice from 30mph)

So - I brake from 30mph and more all the time, obviously, without issue - so what does that tell you?

conversely i had a pair that survived a week of downhilling in the alps despite several of my party and the guide telling me i was mad and they would never last. - 160 F + R

just quit dragging your brakes. then they stand a chance of working when you require them !

So - I brake from 30mph and more all the time, obviously, without issue - so what does that tell you?

So do I. And faster, more often, with no problems at all. Except I now use exclusively Magura brakes, which never, ever even slightly begin to possibly just fade a tinsy insy winsy bit.
(And I weigh more now than I did then, if that's what you're getting at)
That tells me that Mono Minis weren't up to the job.
🙂

Over time it seems that the pads can become contiaminated every so slightly, taking the edge off the power

I've had this on the bike I only use a few times a year. I think its might be corrosion on pad surface due to lack of use (bike storage space is a little damp). A few sharp stops and it goes away.

No problems with Hope here either. Well - perhaps one. Over time it seems that the pads can become contiaminated every so slightly, taking the edge off the power

Ahhhh. Thanks for reminding me. I used to get that too. My conclusion was that the pads were too hard and would overheat and glaze rather than wear down. A quick brush with a wire brush used to mostly fix it.

spectabilis - Member
@Dr .
My post wasn't a direct response to yours.
But fair enough your choice,[b] good luck with your avids [/b] have u got a bell fitted yet??
POSTED 10 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Tbh, even avids are a million times better! I have a big circle of friends I ride with who have had nothing but problems with hope brakes. All I can seriously think is that a lot of you defending hope are either working for them, selling there products or just too bloody loyal to admit they're shite!
My shimano xt's are in a league of there own in comparison.

I bled the brakes as they had no power in them and felt spongy, apparently this is how a lot of them feel. Xt's have plenty modulation and have good bite to start with.
Judging by mine and what's happening to a lot of my friends hope brakes, I think they all have a very slow leak.

im guessing you did the old - squeeze the lever , tighten the bolts to fit the caliper am i right ?

Serious question, how should I be aligning them then?

"My conclusion was that the pads were too hard and would overheat and glaze rather than wear down. "

alot of that wasnt helped by the fact that they used to come with EBC gold in the early days and most folk simply didnt get enough heat into them to get the best out of them. - coupled with folk who simply must have 205 rotors as they believe that gives them more power - at the expense of never letting the pads heat up.

how ever i will agree that no matter the rotor size - take sintered pads to the alps in a hope and your in a world of hurt.

i stick to organic and live with the short life times of a days riding in the alps.

"im guessing you did the old - squeeze the lever , tighten the bolts to fit the caliper am i right ?

Serious question, how should I be aligning them then? "

so that the rotor is central to the gap in the caliper - by eye ... new hopes have a line scribed at the center point of the caliper for this purpose.

the pull the brake trick will not do this most of the time.

doing the pull the brake trick with hopes results in a spongy brake. There is a how too on their website .... just the act of simply doing that for some folk ive ridden with has transformed their brakes no end. Yo might find if you have done the pull the brake trick that for the first few downhills your pad rubs as its adapted to the old ways but get a bit of heat in them and the pads will balance out - unless they are siezed and need a strip down and clean.

Hopes are sensitive to this and it can totally ruin the feel.

I've got Hopes (Tech X2s) on the commuter and the MTB, and since changing the pads on the commuter (and doing the brake pull trick) they've been squealing like a bastard. I'll break out the allen keys and do it by eye.

On the other hand, I've never had a problem with power, and they feel so much nicer than the Juicy 5s that they replaced on the mtb.

old school hope minis on my xc bike, 10 years old still brilliant

newer m4s on my dh bike same as above,about 4 years old cant say ive ever had any problems ever!
- apart from ripping out a hose on the champery wc course but that was rider error!

there is a knack to bleeding and setting them up, but once youve got that its smooth braking all the way

Tbh, even avids are a million times better!

I have six sets of OEM elixirs on new bikes in the shop right now , half of them randomly pull straight to the bar ! complete ****

I do love a Hope (they work) brake thread.

FWIW, i've only ever had 2 sets of Hopes (XC4 & original Minis) & both were shocking - the minis remained so even after Hope 'fixed' them. I did sell the XC4s as brakes but not the Minis as I was concerned they'd be dangerous & broke them for spares only.

Avids were so-so, Hayes, Magura & Shimano all decent enough.

I did have a chuckle at the TVR/Ducati analogy mind, my 996 was a fantastic machine other than when it wouldn't start/died mid-ride/lost all drive/developed a mis-fire. A mate also had a Chimera which was great fun when it actually started but only after being rebuilt when it caught fire at less than 7 months old.... 🙂

ah original minis - the brake that used to push its self apart under braking and leak fluid.....due to a lack of boltage holding the two halfs together.

tbh they have been alot less hassle since they went to 1 piece calipers!

spectabilis - Member
@Dr .
My post wasn't a direct response to yours.
But fair enough your choice,[b] good luck with your avids [/b] have u got a bell fitted yet??
POSTED 10 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Tbh, even avids are a million times better! I have a big circle of friends I ride with who have had nothing but problems with hope brakes. [b]All I can seriously think is that a lot of you defending hope are either working for them, selling there products or just too bloody loyal to admit they're shite! [/b]
My shimano xt's are in a league of there own in comparison.

I bled the brakes as they had no power in them and felt spongy, apparently this is how a lot of them feel.
Judging by mine and what's happening to a lot of my friends hope brakes, I think they all have a very slow leak.

you talking about these minis?

[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTj0GZPH4sb5EEVPYn9B1yT2sicFL02zLpblCjyGdSsyxnF0zYdQGMoC8JOOQ [/img]

mine have been ace (phenolic pistons were a great improvement after 1st alps trip) done a couple of megavalanches and years of abuse never popped apart once?!

I bled the brakes as they had no power in them and felt spongy, apparently this is how a lot of them feel.
Judging by mine and what's happening to a lot of my friends hope brakes,

they dont pop apart -they just weap ... it was just certain caliper numbers IIRC

are you drunk pussywillow - you seem to be repeating your self.

I'm amazed at these different experiences with Hope equipment. Me and my riding buddies have been using Hope brakes, hubs, headsets and BBs for over 15 years and I can only remember one cracked hub which was replaced straight away without receipt, in spite of being at least 5 years old. As far as I know, no-one I know has had any trouble with any Hope brakes going back as far as C2s and O2s (except the old C2 problem of overheating and seizing on long descents, of course ;-])

I bled the brakes as they had no power in them and felt spongy, apparently this is how a lot of them feel.
Judging by mine and what's happening to a lot of my friends hope brakes, I think they all have a very slow leak.

The feel you describe indicates that they are not centred properly. If there was any leak you would find fluid. No fluid, no leak. A slow leak on a brand new brake would also not manifest as spongy straight from the box.

The Hope centreing thing sounds like nonsense but it really does work, not sure why they're so sensitive to it when no other brakes are, but it's got to be exactly right or they don't work properly. Not the end of the world, but a weird pain in the bum.

orangeboy - Member

Compare with my xt ones first the hose failed like everyone else then the caliper seals failed and knackered te pads
But you can't buy seals for them , open bin drop in xt replace with hope job done

But obviously you used the warranty? No? There seems to be a lot of folks complaining of problems with their new shimano so it seems odd that none of them seemed to go through the warranty process for a new brake...

Also, I know I always say this, but the cost of a new caliper for Shimano is not much more than a pair of pads and a set of seals for Hope. (remember the caliper comes with pads) It's crap that they don't make the parts available but it's really not a big deal.

Yeah I know how to bleed brakes. The point is they've been crap from new, I thought they just needed bedding in, 5 rides later and they're still the same! Now it's alright saying I haven't bled them properly or making other excuses, but there can be a group of up to 20 of us that go riding, and not one person has anything good to say about hope! I liked my hope minis from years ago, but they haven't advanced since in terms of power and only gone backwards in terms of reliability compared to other brands at the moment.

[img] [/img]

sorry couldnt resist it 😀

Very good for u that rattie! 😀

All I can seriously think is that a lot of you defending hope are either working for them, selling there products or just too bloody loyal to admit they're shite!

Obviously not, it's quite clear that there is some kind of intermittent problem that's either caused by Hope or the user.

I can never understand the Hope hating, maybe I've just been lucky but in all the time I've been using them (from C2s in 1998 through XC4s, Enduro 4s, Minis, Mono Minis, M4s, and Tech X2s) I have only ever had 2 problems, and that's over about 20 brakes...

> one was a leak on a C2 on the back of my trials bike so I can forgive that one due to the use ithard

> and the other was a knackered seal on an M4 caliper due to a chipped piston when I was over-enthusiastic with the screw driver, so totally my fault.

I've still got two sets in use that are over 10 years old now and work just as well as my current model Tech X2s

For balance...

I've also had several sets of Hayes (great and simple but pistons corrode badly after about 12 months)

Maguras - faultless, and loved working on them in the workshop too.

Avid - across 4 sets I've never actually had them work properly! leaks, stuck pistons, bad (awkward) bleeds, self destructing master cylinders...
Also used to dread Avids coming into the workshop as they were always a pain to bleed and would invariably be back with another problem a few weeks later.

Shimano - generally OK for a year or two, but then problems with sticky pistons and a weepy seals that cant be fixed due to no parts being available. Girlfriends SLX decided to pull back to the bar this weekend, think it's sucked some air in due to lever being pulled while wheel out and upside down 🙁

So from my first hand experience of my own brakes, and working on a lot more in workshops I'd have to say Hope always win for me on reliability and repairability..

But obviously other people have had problems, but I don't know enough about the specifics of their cases to comment, so I'm only giving my experience here.

Be good to see the pics of where the fluid is leaking from. As for sponginess - where is the flex happening (spongy brakes can be caused by lots of things:
- bendy lever
- master cylinder pushrod sticking
- flexy hoses (flexy as in they expand rather than bend)
- poor fluid quality (air/water in the fluid)
- caliper rigidity
- seal rigidity
- pad material

So where is your spongy feel coming from?
I am a long time user of Hope brakes, and have only good things to say. Bought some XTs as well this year and they are the same power and feel as my 2002 Hope Minis. As with all things though a few bad components or maintenance can cause lots of issues.

And your reference to all your 20 mates having the same issue - don't you think that if Hope had a genuine issue with reliability they would have fixed it? Spending money on warranty is wasting money. Getting quality right in the first place costs much much less than a warranty replacement.

Yours, quality advisor to D Hinde