[Closed] Hope BB, stainless steel VS ceramic. is ceramic worth the extra ££££

Probably not. The main advantage of ceramic is lower resistance - but the difference at the speeds of a bottom bracket are minimal. It might make a difference on a road bike over a 100+ mile ride, but not on a mountain bike.

cheers

saves me 20quid

😀

hope bb not worth it, not enough thread engagement in the bb cups

hope bb not worth it, not enough thread engagement in the bb cups

can you explain further?? Why isn't there enough thread engagement? You speak from experience?

when you put the 2 spacers on the drive side there is less than 10mm of thread engagement, its not enough, plenty of stories of threads in frames getting knackered - yes ive seen it as well, a almost shagged prophet sl frame because of this issue with a hope bb

IMO ceramic isn't any better than stainless. BB quality is down to the seals.

I recently spoke with an aerospace bearing manufacturer and supplier about bottom brackets and headset bearings. His professional opinion was that as long as the quality of grease and sealing was there, and that they were installed / mounted correctly, ceramic bearings have absolutely no performance advantage whatsoever in a cycling application. He thought it was quite funny that I had an idea they did.

His take on ceramic bearings was that they only offer real world advantages where very high speeds in a low lubrication environment was their application; basically they are harder and smoother, need less lube, and withstand heat better, but the difference, from an engineering point of view, is only noticeable at very high speed. True, it would take less effort to turn them, but the difference is so small that it is totally overshadowed by the difference, for example, alternative tyres can make.

I didn't bother either.

Interesting. Anyone ever quoted a measured difference between them for BBs? Probably not I imagine

4 watts gets bandied about, by FSA i think.

[i]Anyone ever quoted a measured difference between them for BBs[/i]

It's approx 100m over a 10k road ride iirc for the same energy input.

so significant for those riding TT's, probably less so for MTB riders not racing.

So 100m out of 10,000m, 1%! woopiedoo
You know something has extremely minimal advantage when they quote an improvement over 100k. 🙄

never heard of stainless bearings turning to dust 😯

ooOOoo - I think when a TT might be run by seconds (i.e. less than 1% of the time ridden) then getting that sort of advantage for £100 is quite significant.

In the 'real world' probably less of an issue though.

i bought one of these cheap a while ago brand new, still havent ko'd my xt one yet and am now slightly worried it will knacker my bb thread? shall i be worried, as orange bikes offer the hope BB as an upgrade so i should be ok???

anyone with a 5 or similar use the hope bb with similar issues???

ooOOoo - I think when a TT might be run by seconds (i.e. less than 1% of the time ridden) then getting that sort of advantage for £100 is quite significant.

Yes it may do, but I notice they never quote it as a percentage. I'm guessing "1% improvement" isn't such an effective marketing tool.

I can't for a minute believe there is a one percent advantage in using ceramic bearings! Absolute rubbish.

The bearing resistance in an (adequately maintained) bb is tiny compared to the other things in cycling: rolling resistance, aerodynamic resistance, loss in the chain/gears, the wheel bearings and probably the least important. the BB bearing. Even if there was a 1% advantage in ceramic over SS for the resistance of the BB at a given rotation and loading, on an actual bike it wouldn't make any difference.

If there was a 1% advantage, every time trialler, mtber and road racer in the world would have them.

I think incorrectly setup gears, chain line, chain lube, clothing, pedals (who here lubes the pedal shoe interface?), tyre width, pressure, material, weight, aerodynamic body position, biomechanical seating position and pedalling efficiency, hydration, lard on your arse and what you ate last night are all better places to start looking at % performance advantages before the material from which your bb bearings are made.

yep performance gains are small but they exist....every little helps! £20 notes extra is a small amount over SS for a small benefit seems fair!

Harder material bearings must be more resistant to wear from grit ingress/grease being washed out too, then factor in the fact that they can't rust...would seem to make sense to upgrade to me!

Just ordered some ceramic bearings for Hope BB. When they arrived I realised that the £30 price tag was just for one bearing not a pair. Sent it straight back and ordered (a pair of steel) bearings

Sixty sheets to replace the bearings when you can actually buy the entire Hope ceramic BB for £88. Bu**er that.

PS £30 extra (over cost of steel) for pair of ceramics where I looked

10 mm of thread engagement(i havnt checked this ) and its an issue ? Do you fit your bb with rocks ? My hope ceramic is going fine in my carbon frame after 10 months now. just fit it correctly and it will be fine ! Only bb thread ive ever ****ed was the first bb i ever fitted 10 years ago and i cross threaded it.

is the ceramic version any lighter than the steel?

i rate my steel one massively though so go for it!

.

i've been running my stainless Hope bb in my 5 for 2 years and it has been faultless, and no problems with thread engagement mentioned by another poster. I highly recommend them.

then factor in the fact that they can't rust...would seem to make sense to upgrade to me!

STAINLESS Steel

dirtyrider - just got my Hope bb installed... there was barely 1mm less thread on them than the Shimano units... yet still plenty engaged in the frame. Not sure that'll have caused whatever issues you seem to have suffered.....

I recently spoke with an [b]aerospace [/b]bearing manufacturer and supplier about bottom brackets and headset bearings

Was he also a cycling expert? Seems rather speculative otherwise frankly.

I've heard about 5W saving, which is over 1% for most TTers, that doesn't necessarily translate into a 1% on the road advantage, but still enough than the vast majority of pro riders are using ceramic bearings. Also running them with light oil, and often on the road without seals to reduce drag.

when you put the 2 spacers on the drive side there is less than 10mm of thread engagement, its not enough, plenty of stories of threads in frames getting knackered - yes ive seen it as well, a almost shagged prophet sl frame because of this issue with a hope bb

What a load of crap. I can see how incorrectly installed brackets may cause a problem but to say that the Hope brackets cause frame damage due to bad design is pretty libalous if you ask me. The only Hope bracket that is any shorter than any one elses is the road version, which I have seen fitted incorrectly to mtb frames.

Give my excellent LBS their due; when I purchased a Hope BB recently, they advised against the ceramic one for most of the reasons mentioned above - namely that the resistance advantages would be totally wiped out by other factors found on a typical mountain bike ride. On a road / TT bike however, ceramic BB's make a lot more sense. They also said that the seals had as much of an impact on longevity than anything else, and being Hope, they'd be pretty good.

I'm with TR and BS here, no reason for Hope BBs to knacker frames except for mechanical ineptitude!

My LBS advised as above: ceramic = road, SS = mountain

Harder material bearings must be more resistant to wear from grit ingress/grease being washed out too

I saw an advert for one brand of ceramic BB (and I can't remember the name but I think they were a US brand) that were designed to be run with no lube whatsoever. Again they might well have been designed for road racing. I think they might not have even had a "seal" in the true sense. I also think they were ceramic balls and races. I have to agree though that probably ceramic may be more useful in a road application, especially if you do high mileages.

Surprise, someone on STW disses a HOPE product, never seen that before!

This thread is useless without kaesae's input.

The question you need to ask yourself is do I want to buy a crap BB with Hope written on it or do I want to buy one that will actually last? I had a stainless Hope BB, it didn't last all that long and was worse value than buying a couple of Shimano BBs. The only worse one I've had is a RF that came on a bike.

My advice would be to buy a Chris King if you've got Hope Ceramic BB money to spend. I've had mine around 18 months, cleaned/greased it twice and at the moment it is still going strong. Also has a plastic interface between BB and crank axle, which I like because in the event the BB seizes you don't score the axle.

All of that said if I could find a BB that lasted 6 months for £20 I'd rather buy repeated ones of those, if you don't have the CK grease tool it is a bit of a faff to grease the BB.