Partner had a nasty off on Sunday, loosing the front (on a hardpacked manmade section of the HtN course, just after the second rocky short cut, if anyone knows the area).
Talking about it later, we realised that this is the fourth time in about six months this has happened to her, and the problem has only occured after fitting a LUST 2.35 HR, which is usually run with a tube at about 35psi.
Previously to this she's used Cinders and Fire XC's at the same pressure without any problems.
I've tried the tyre myself on the front over the last couple of days and it does feel a bit sketchy when leant over on harder ground, certainly not as grippy as the Ignitor 2.35 or Advantage 2.1 that I've used recently.
It the pressure too high?, I've tried dropping it but am unsure about how low I can go without issues.
I know loads of people rave about these tyres - maybe we just don't corner aggressively enough for them to work properly?
Anyone else had this problem?
Used for mostly XC on a 100mm hardtail, if this makes any difference.
How much does she weigh? 35 psi is probably too hard
Supertacky or 60a?
David, when I see her this evening I will check if that information is classified or not 😀
I'm about 13 stone and used 35psi when trying the tyre out on the same terrain yesterday morning - it felt as though it just wanted to wash out on anything hardpacked.
Yep, I noticed a similar thing when I had the same tyre on the front.
Washed out and crashed on the last bit of Pennels Vennel at Glentress, which looked easy.
Coogan, it's the LUST one, which appears to be a 62/70 according to the Maxxis website.
Use a super tacky on the front myself and it's always been a grippy bastard.
The st 42a one tends to work best at the front, i think i ran mine at somewhere between 25 and 30 psi when i use them
Im about 14st kitted up and run 30psi in the front,never had a problem with both 60a and super tacky.They do like to be right over to get the best grip whilst cornering though.Only once had the front start to wash out on me in a berm but it was covered in loose gravel having only just been resurfaced,the tire managed to find grip again though.
35psi does sound quite a lot (assuming you partner is not a 17st brick hodding biffer!). I weight more than you at the moment and use about 30psi on the front absolute max, usually less - tubless. Used tubed the already stiff lust version will be even stiffer which won't be helping. Re grip, I have experienced that a little & read comments on here that this tyre really needs to be committed to a corner in order to bite. Most of the gnarly knobs are on the sides and don't engage properly until the wheel is properly lent over. I tried to do the opposite of what comes naturally (which is to be cautious and upright through the corner when you have lost a bit of faith) and be more aggressive and it has helped.
Yeah 35psi seems pretty high. I weigh 75kg wihout any kit, so 80-85kg loaded and run 27psi front 32psi back
Ok, thanks for the responses.
Looks like it's a combination of too high pressures and the tyre not suiting her style.
I'll swap hers with mine and once she's mended and hopefully got her confidence back we'll see how it goes.
We've ended up with a random collection of tyres, due to buying what's available in local shops whilst on holiday, so it's going to be mix and match time till we find something that suits.
11.5st and just a shade under 30psi, grips great
they are a bit sketchy till you get them right over, they're definitely a commit to it tyre.
Panaracers are much less so, especially cinders. I use the HR only as a back tyre and use a minion on the front which works better imho.
Sometimes too LOW pressure is bad, on tyres with very thin sidewalls - the thing squirms out of shape. I had lots of trouble with speedking 2.3s, then I upped the pressure and it helped lots.
I run a 42a on the front 2.35 non UST, but tubeless. I weigh 11.5 stone kitted up and run 26psi in the front, with no problems. (28psi in the back)
I find too high pressures and they 'ping' of rocks rather than conforming around them.
BARS?
BARS?
Eh?
Biodiversity Action Reporting System?
British Association of Retinal Screeners?
British Association of Romantic Studies?Please enlighten me....
i weigh 14 stone and run a dual ply highroller (not a tubeless) at 15psi both front and rear. no problems, tonnes of grip. You should be able to take a good 10 psi out of that without a concern
if its the 62a/70 it will last forever but it aint that grippy.
am about 13.5stone and use 32 to 35 PSI and have no issues with a 60a
but i tend to throw the bike over in the corners to get the side nobs working..
Lust = 62a
BAR roughly (pedant) = 1 atmosphere of pressure = 14.5psi
I'm 50/50 on HR/Minions myself at the moment.
They were great 95% of the time this weekend but on corners where I could see things looking sketchy, I didn't have enough confidence to lean right over to make them work. I'm wondering if an AdVantage might work a little better.
Ah, so roughly 3.2 BAR Hora.
25-30psi here, non ust, 62a, with tube 14.something stone all kitted up. I runa semi slick HR 2.35 on the rear though and that gives way much sooner than the front if your not committed.
I find its the ground that gives way before the tyre, definately one you have to lean right over to find the grip, and they tend to slide a little before giving up entirely which you can use to your advantage as well.
Maybe try lowering the bars as far as you can, lower bars = more weight on front = more grip, just look at a DH rider cornering, they are practicaly sat on the stem!
Maybe try lowering the bars as far as you can
Don't!
Low front does not give confidence downhill...
She's got the bars as low as possible anyway, flipped stem and spacers removed to help climbing, as recommended by those lovely people at the Dales Bike Centre.
I think it must be the pressure.
She's tried another High Roller 2.35 at the back (but didn't like it), so now we've got two of the damn things as spares. 😐
Anyone in the North West want a couple of HR's, going cheap?
Where abouts in the NW?
Tod/North Manchester.
Email in profile later!
Cheers.
No worries, Im in the lakes and I dont have a great need for the tires
ta anyway
How much does she lean the bike when cornering? As others have said - you need to get the bike right over onto the side knobs for them to work *really* well.
Please don't take this the wrong way. I have no idea how good your partners riding is she may be fanbloodytastic or she may be just OK, who knows.
I can't imagine for a moment that the tyre is the problem here unless she is riding right on the ragged edge and at professional/semi pro standard.
I ride quite well I'm not pro I'm not a racer and certainly not some downhill god but I'm big I ride pretty quick and in all weathers.
I went to Afan last week on Conti mountain kings 2.4 widely acknowledged on here as the worst tyres ever. It was wet. Rode as fast as anyone in the group, no issues with grip at all.
It's usually not the equipment.
Low front does not give confidence downhill...
No, a lack of confidence gives a lack of confidence, I'm running a flipped stem, no spacers and 130mm forks with lots of sag on my 456, but still get criticized for trying to take sketcy lines, running the same setup with rizers, normal stem and spacers feels totaly different and gives much less front grip.
Just look at DH bikes, flat bars, minimal stems, fork crowns droped as low as they'll go.
If she is not an aggressive rider I can understand her hating the HR's as they seem to need a lot of cranking over like Advantages. For less committed riding either the Panaracer Cinders or Rampages are very good. I used Cinders for a couple of years. Just started using Minion DHF on front and back and very impressed - lots of grip, very predictable at all angles and reasonably fast rolling
No, a lack of confidence gives a lack of confidence
That's nonsense.
My old Pace - flat bars, long stem, nervous as hell, kept getting dumped over the front, any drop was an effort. Riser bars and shorter stem - same everything else, same me - brilliant, flying down everthing.
You trying to say that riding position and geometry make no difference?
DH bikes have totally different geometries. Saying that a low front end works well for someone who you've never seen on their bike just because DH bikes have flat bars is daft.
And your saying high bars are better?
You went from low stem, narrow flat bars, on an XC bike so I'm assuming a lont TT and steep angles too.
To a short stem and risers on the same bike.
I'm asuming from the tyre choice its not an XC bike like your pace. So the angles are more likely already slacker, which would make a shorter/lower stem less nervous than the equivalent setup on your pace. Also the wider availability of flat bars wider than your average riser make them a much more usefull choice than they were in the 90's.
It may work, it may not work. But as someone who uses high rollers and gets on with them I can say with some experience to back it up that a low front end and wider bars helped no end with front end grip and had no effect on drops or jumps. Being female she might not want wide bars, but a low riser/flat of normal proportions and a lowered stem will shift weight forewards and increace the grip. I just found that wider (760mm) bars compensated for the lower position in terms of keeping my arms/elbows out rather than tucking in.
Wow - I didn't realise 35psi was considered high - really ? I tend to go 40 to 45psi...Used to suffer too many 'snakebite' punctures with lower pressures (pre full suspension I guess)
Yeah, I reckon on 35 to 40 as normal. Depends on how much you weigh and what you ride I suppose.
I hate high roller 60as on the front . Super tacky is fine in the winter when it gets a bit slippery.
Ive always ridden at 25 to 30 psi front and rear. 35 - 40psi seems quite high. Im 75kg.
Running specialized Captains now on the xc bike. Loads more grip then my high rollers and seem more predictable when they are gonna wash.
And your saying high bars are better?
No. I'm saying that it depends on a ton of factors. You can't just say 'lower the bars' without having seen the setup. I shouldn't have just said 'no' to it though, that's just as blanket a statement 🙂
front 2.35 60A 30psi good
definite transition to the grippy edge knobs
afan is grippy wet or dry with just about any tyre IMO
if you run dual ply and decent tubes it's pretty hard to snakebite. I've snapped a couple of rims with hard landings, and still not had a flat
smoooove 8)
No I meant bars as in bar height as well as bar width? and overall height of the front. The HR's are quite tall tyres to boot as well arent they? If the rider is quite short your already on the backfoot so to speak.
Why are you using a Tubeless tyre with a tube btw?
I've periodically tried HR's- really can not get on with them at all. Just make me feel nervous when they are amazing tyres.
I think she should could back to her previous ASAP. Some products work for some and some not for others.
I love Ardents- mental about them however I know others will disagree.
14 stone, always run 21-23 psi front (DIY tubeless). I also prefer wider rims such as 5.1's or Flows, which give a better tyre profile for cornering, especially on 2.2-2.35 tyres.
fair point, I still think the average MTB has its bars too high for fassion reasons rather than people thinking about where to put their bars on they just stick a 10deg stem, mid riser and 15mm of spacers and leave it at that as its astheticaly what everyone does so looks abotu right.
A low front end has plenty of advantages, mainly;
*keeps the wheel down uphill
*increaces girp in corners (i.e. works downhill as well)
You should have your bars as low as your hamstrings/back will comfortably allow, so yes I would flip my stem back up if I knew I was going out for more than 4 hours, but for less than that I'd keep it as low as possible.
I've not seen the OP's bike, but I stand by my comment that they might benifit from a lower (and possibly wider) front end if they are struggling fro grip.
Why are you using a Tubeless tyre with a tube btw?
Because it was 'The only tyre in the village'.
Slashed the previous tyre in North Wales & Betws Y Coed is not exactly blessed with choice - it was this or a semi-slick 🙂
Ta for all the advice - bar height is not an issue - bike set up is spot on (as said before, the position was tweaked by the Dales Bike Centre and seems to be working fine for climbing and descending).
Back tyre is a Purgatory, which is very high volume, so no issues there.
One LBS recommended a Minion DH F Supertacky which I fitted last night.
Once on the bike it seems to have a similar gap between the centre tread and the side knobs as the HR: I'll try it myself before letting Sue loose on it, but seems stickier than a fat kid in a sweet shop and has much deeper tread than the HR, so we'll give it a go.
Ta for all the advice folks, much appreciated.
Thats another tyre I cant get my heard round!
Which one Hora, the Purgatory or the Minion?
TBH, I'm not convinced by the Minion (which seems to have a similar tread pattern to the HR), but it's on now, and I'll use it if it doesn't suit.
Chaps in the shop (people I trust) assured me it would grip like a very, very grippy thing. Will be running it at 25psi, so fingers crossed and lets see what happens.
Don't forget that the slight stiffness and nervousness you get when you lack confidence (in this case confidence in the front tyre) tends to lose you grip in itself. You become more sensitive to the slightest sensation of slip, which causes you to be tense and react to the ground, and that's a negative loop which just keeps on reaffirming itself.
I reckon you should just let a bit of air out of the tyre and try really hard to relax and keep looking further ahead and ignore the bike under you - break the negative circle.