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Firstly, I get the concept - it’s a road bike you can take off road.
I guess my question is, why this over a hardtail? If you have a 29er with 2.4” tyres on, lock out the forks - what’s the difference?
Forgive my ignorance - I’m interested in the concept and type of riding; but I’m finding it difficult to understand the benefits of a gravel bike over a hardtail.
Thanks in advance!
Lighter, quicker on smooth surfaces, drop bars, can take mudguards and lots of luggage.
Given your previous post about how harsh hardtails are, just assume they're not for you 🙂
they can go fast, they don't need much in the way of gnarr to start to get exciting.
Lighter than an XC hardtail? are they really though? surely not by all that much if they're built to carry loads of shit and changing tyres to the same as a gravel bike runs would probably close that gap even tighter. Honestly can't see the gravel bike being much faster if you did that either. or do Gravel enthusiasts adopt an aero position these days?
The main difference IMO is the tyres and drop bars/controls
Hardtail is more versatile/fun from a riding perspective
Gravel is more versatile from a luggage carrying/mudguard fitting perspective
I just did a gravel ride around Colorado Springs today. I was riding with a guy on a hardtail. He wasn't enjoying himself. The wind was pretty unrelenting and he couldn't get a good position in the head winds. That's why I use a gravel bike instead of a hardtail on those rides, to get down on the drops for the slogs into the wind. I've ridden my hardtail on a gravel ride before and it's just not technical enough to give any advantage, and if you lose a wheel into the wind it's harder getting back on.
They're for when a CX bike is too shit, but a rigid XC bike isn't shit enough.
Horses for courses imo.
I got mine to ride from the door more often. Had offspring ,didn't/don't want to drive to ride. I also live in the South East where "tame" cross country riding becomes a little more difficult and therefore more interesting. & Narrow bars make it much easier to get out of town.
I also like to suffer & wear lycra.
🙂
As above the original idea was combine some road and bridleways on a local loop. MTBs always look a little ridiculous on the road.
Horses for courses imo.
I got mine to ride from the door more often. Had offspring ,didn’t/don’t want to drive to ride. I also live in the South East where “tame” cross country riding becomes a little more difficult and therefore more interesting. & Narrow bars make it much easier to get out of town.
I also like to suffer & wear lycra.
This, apart from the kids and lycra bits.
I have to drive to get to any decent trails, but there's lots of local riding from my door.
To build a comparable in weight hardtail would cost loads more, mine is 9.5kg and cost £1400. They're better on the road than a hardtail due to faster tyres and drop bars, they'll do light off road, road, and make going for a pootle down some country lanes a pleasure.
There is a lot of crossover between them and an XC hardtail, with the hardtail being more capable on dirt and the gravel bike better on road.
If you have a 29er with 2.4” tyres on,
Compared to an MTB hardtail with a 67 degree HA it's just feel. Plus locked out Sus forks tend to feel a bit different, they usually move a bit.
I have a rigid 29er with a 70.5 degree HA. It's a bit closer to a gravel bike. If it had drops and thinner tyres it'd be even closer, just heavier.
Drops and steeper angles make gravel bikes easier to ride like a road bike on roads and hence a bit more comfy and a bit faster.
Thanks for the replies all.
I suppose I just look at the geo and don’t understand how it makes it better - standover height seems higher and drop bars scare me - but then I’ve never ridden drop bars before.
Does the geo (larger front triangle, generally shorter) make it more comfortable for longer sessions?
I live in Cheshire and have to drive to find decent MTB trails so as I said, the concept appeals - just trying to discover if it’s for me. Will give those vids above a watch!
They’re for when a CX bike is too shit, but a rigid XC bike isn’t shit enough.
Mostly this.
I have road, cx, gravel*, monstercross and XC hardtail bikes. They all do something a bit differently. I'm planning to sell the monstercross as TBH that's a niche that didn't need to exist unless you're doing the tour divide or similar.
Not sure whether GeeX actually rides a gravel bike, he implies not but has an opinion anyway. It's less about aero and more about multiple hand positions. I can do 100 miles on the Xc bike but it feels quite tough on the hands after 8 hour, on drop bars it's nowhere near as bad. And the drops do give a bit of respite in the wind.
Not sure guards and luggage mounts are a gravel bike thing. You can go bike packing on anything from a road bike to a fs mtb. Although gravel bikes do lend themselves to longer distances and unsurfaced traffic free roads/routes.
*In the non uci compliant cx bike style.
Does the geo (larger front triangle, generally shorter) make it more comfortable for longer sessions?
That's just road bike geometry. Drop bars in effect create a ~200mm stem.
Learn to love the drops, by being so low you have a lot less leverage trying to throw you over the front wheel compared to a traditional xc setup. It's just a different way of solving the stability problem. I wouldn't swap it for long, low and slack on a properly rough track, but it works well enough and offers other advantages to make up for it's shortcomings.
I’d try drops before you buy anything, they don’t suit me at all. I ended up selling my road bike & buying a flat barred hybrid which could just do with wider tyres.
I live in Cheshire and have to drive to find decent MTB trails so as I said, the concept appeals – just trying to discover if it’s for me. Will give those vids above a watch!
To be blunt, gravel bikes are rubbish on good/interesting MTB trails. Anyone that says they're great all-rounders is either selling gravel bikes or a real pootler off-road. Drop bars are a bad choice for technical riding.
Having said all that I love fat-tyre road bikes. I like road riding but I don't see the point in a trad race bike type as I don't race. I have a fat-tyre drop bar bike for road rides that take in a bit of trail or track along the way and to bypass busier roads or just see where they go. I might use those trails in future to add to an MTB loop so they're good for exploring, also means I can ride some easier byway type of trails that are further out from home than normal MTB ride range. I have calling them 'adventure bikes' (any bike is) but yeah, they make sense for road-biased rides that widen your local trail knowledge.
No need for drop bars though. Drops seem to be a popular thing in off-road touring at the mo but I see a lot of struggling, underbiked riders who'd be better off on bigger tyres and wider bars. A rigid, light XC 29er is arguably just as good a gravel bike, just depends. And tyres make the bike.
My hardtail (with carbon forks) is 11kg. I happened to demo a gravel bike yesterday that's around the same price point - 9.6kg. You could load either up with the same amount of baggage.
"Gravel" is already a wide category of its own in the same way that "mountain bike" is. The bike I demoed was basically a road bike with room for beefier tyres, the groupset was standard Shimano 105 which would be basically useless off-road here in the Dales. At the other end something with "road plus" tyres is all but an MTB with drop bars (usually flared).
They are a bit slower on road, maybe 10%, than a pure road bike but you've got the option of just heading off down a rough lane that looks interesting or you know cuts out a bit of horrible main road that you'd have to negotiate on a road bike. Out of choice I wouldn't head round a trail centre on one but most would be able to ride much of something like the red XC route at Inners on one with just a few sections giving cause for concern.
A gravel bike frame with two sets of wheels (700c & road plus) would do all my road and easy off road riding. Unfortunately it means introducing the n-2 rule ☺️
My hardtail (with carbon forks) is 11kg. I happened to demo a gravel bike yesterday that’s around the same price point – 9.6kg. You could load either up with the same amount of baggage.
On road yes, but on a track the bigger tyres of the hardtail (assume a 29er) carry the load with more control and probably efficiency. I've ridden with guys on gravel bikes on basic estate tracks while I've been on a 29er and the difference is dramatic. Goes the other way on tarmac though!
Interesting thread. I have 2 gravel bikes, at opposite ends of the gravel spectrum - a Croix de Fer, with 105 groupset, and a carbon fork, which I use a lot on the road in winter, for touring, and for mixed rides which are more road than trail :
and a Vagabond, which is only a few weeks old, and really proving it's worth for more off road trips, where mile munching and versatility is the aim :
Okay, so I can see the benefit of the drop bars now its been explained - i guess its just getting used to them. Can see how hand position changes will be useful over larger miles.
I suppose an XC 29er could be adapted with those Ergon touring grips and thinner tyres to make it more road friendly etc.
Riding mine on the road is a bit of a chore; but as has been said earlier its the tyres that make the bike, and having 2.6 DHFs on my HT isn't going to make it pleasant on anything flat!
Main conclusions seem to be that its personal preference - as with anything!
They look odd but M / H bars (Mary, Jones type, etc) are worth thinking about on a rigid 29er - they give you fore-aft range for road and off-road positions and I like the swept grip angle for general riding. Drops are said to offer more hand positions but most riders are on the hoods 90% of the time anyway.
Tyres - if it's dry and not too loose you'd be amazed how fast and capable a 29 x 2.35 G-One can be.
(edit - there's someone else on here that could have written the very same post!)
After riding the Wild Boar Chase last weekend as one of the only gravel bikes there, I can happily say hand on heart that hardtails are just as fast as gravel bikes over the distance.
Once you start doing long rides then multiple hand positions makes things so much more pleasant. For last year's French Divide I fitted Velo Orange Crazy Bars to my Solaris to give me lots of hand positions: a long road section - get on the "tri-bars"; standard cruising - hands at base of tri-bars; technical stuff - hands at end of bars; etc.
Gravel bikes certainly aren't "one bike to rule them all" but depending on where you live and what riding you do they could be very useful.
Drop bars are a bad choice for technical riding.
You are totally right, but those trails are a lot of seat of the pants fun and an adrenaline rush on a drop bar bike. Trails that you'd barely notice on a proper MTB are exciting again and above all its the fun that we all like.
Northwind
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They’re for when a CX bike is too shit, but a rigid XC bike isn’t shit enough.
Very much this. I have plenty of trails around my house that are boring as anything on a mtb, but the 33c CX tyres and wheels get a bit of a kicking. My "Gravel" bike is just my CX with bigger wheels and tyres and it does the job nicely for From The Door riding
This thread captured my interest as much of my riding is from the door, meaning either slogging it out on the MTB (29er HT) or road bike rides with no dirt fun!
I had been looking at various gravel bikes, especially the Road Plus variety and really had a good look at the London Bike show.
I ended up ordering a Ribble CGR 725. I have covered over 150 miles so far on mixed surfaces. Drops have been no issue as I am comfortable on them and the fit of the bike is spot on for all day comfort.
Overall, it is a fantastic machine. But that is also the issue I am finding right now. It feels like a machine. Very efficient but, at the moment at least, my emotions aren't involved. Maybe more me than the bike. Or maybe the bike I opted for. I don't know.
Bottom line = they work but they aren't a cycling panacea.
Mines used on fireroads, bridleways, towpaths and linking the above up, mainly on extended commutes home, rides to the pub, a few miles when the local singletrack is nasty. I don't like using it on singletrack as its crap for it.
Its more for just riding about, just because you can.
Great for mixed riding. After an accident I'm not wild on being on the road too much. I can string a 40 mile route together that's 50/50 off and on tarmac. I get out of built up areas on cycle paths, then bridleways, farm roads, quiet country lanes, South Downs Way. Barely see a car. I enjoy my CX with 40mm tires on just about anything other than pointing downhill on rough stuff. So if that's the sort of thing I'd probably avoid and stick with an MTB.
Since 1989 when I got my first MTB, I've wanted a cross-country style mountain bike with drop bars, now I've got one and love it.
(My one is more MTB than gravel though; I also want something lighter and carbon, like maybe a Diverge, for straight tarmac/gravel rides.)
For me a Gravel Bike is a road bike that can go off road, rather than an off road bike thats ok on road.
Dorset Knob...its a Diverge..nice bike but a few issues around bearing life and stupidly expensive chainrings...
I suppose an XC 29er could be adapted with those Ergon touring grips and thinner tyres to make it more road friendly etc.
That's exactly what I've done. Trek Superfly with anything from 33c CX tyres through to 45c WTVB Resolutes.
From the side it pretty much just looks like an XC racing hardtail, from the front though you notice the skinnier tyres and the cut down bars (580mm flats, not even that narrow really).
I keep experimenting with different bars to try and replicate the hand positions of drop bars but still compatible with an MTB frame/MTB controls. Haven't really had any luck, there's apparently some real subtleties to handlebar shape that can mean all sorts of pins and needles and weird hand discomfort after 4 hours. Sticking with flat bars and Ergon grips until I can afford a proper drop bar gravel bike.
I'm using my 'gravel' bike to explore glens and tracks that would be too boring on an MTB (or can only be accessed by lots of tarmac) and are too rough for the road bike. In Scotland most of these tracks are rough enough that I'm still a big fan of 100mm Reba forks...
One of my favourite gravel loops involves two beautiful dead end tarmac roads linked with a really good rolling landrover hill track (Comrie to Callander via Glen Artney). Interestingly the KOM seems to be swapping between me and an MTBer at the moment...
A gravel bike is a rigid hardtail (except when it isn't).
It's also a delight for the negative pedants because it helps justify their existence (to themselves).
It's basically a 1980s MTB configured for the sort of trails that existed before big suspension came in and trail builders had to add features and flow to add excitement.
That makes them the perfect bike for when you get your kicks out of the scenery, not playpark features.
And like Jameso says, it's really all about the tyres. What holds them apart is basically immaterial.
Just get out there and look at the country instead of having to concentrate on what the next few metres of track you're racing through look like, and you'll soon work out what you want in a gravel bike.
Gravel bikes - fire road. Mountain bikes - trails. Neither rule should be considered binding.
Just get out there and look at the country instead of having to concentrate on what the next few metres of track you’re racing through look like, and you’ll soon work out what you want in a gravel bike.
Not in my world. I'm still "racing" along the path/trails on my gravel bike, i don't use it for bimbling. I also have WTB Nanos on, so pretty much trail focused
Different strokes for different folks innit (hence "Grinduro" also being a thing)
OP, I can tell you want one. Get one, you will love it 🙂
Gravel are no where near as shite as 1980`s mtbs.
We now have disc brakes, hydraulics, dual compound tyres with protection, drop bars, 1x setups, tubeless technology, carbon fibre forks/frames and components, clipless, and modern geometry.
The gravel bike is far superior to those old clunkers.
For me a Gravel Bike is a road bike that can go off road, rather than an off road bike thats ok on road.
This sums it up well. For road and fire-roads a gravel bike is simply faster as it is better suited to going faster. Much more aerodynamic position, lighter wheels and tyres, lighter overall.
I have a 6.5kg bike (28c tyres) I use on gravel and a 13kg MTB (2.4 tyres) I use off road. They don't even feel close to ride.
OP, I can tell you want one. Get one, you will love it 🙂
Haha 😉
Well all i'm thinking is eventually I'd like two bikes - a full suss around 130mm in travel, and a hardtail (or Gravel?) for going out from the house.
So its really just a feeler as to whether the bike with no rear suss is going to be a hardtail or a gravel.
This is all immaterial really - I've got no cash! And a full susser will come first...
I have a 6.5kg bike (28c tyres) I use on gravel
Not sure that qualifies, will need to check the marketing rules (your gravel paths must be billiard table smooth!)
OP, I can tell you want one. Get one, you will love it 🙂
Haha 😉
I'm just exploring my options really. Eventually I'd like two bikes - I know that a 130mm FS bike will be more than enough for my trail riding (waiting for Bird to drop a 29er short travel 😉 ) but I'm just figuring out what the other one should be.
Gravel seems like a good compromise for riding out from where I currently live; Cheshire is flat, boring and decent MTB is a drive away. But equally it seems a hardtail can be adapted to this end and I already have one of those, so...
I had the same ponderings 18 months ago. Did loads of research to 'justify' the investment and opted for a Friston. From the first ride I 'got' what it was all about. But much has already been said about that above.
The bottom line for me is that it's fast and involving enough on road to make those 80/20 road/trails rides still fun. And it's soooo much more capable offroad than I imagined. Having to pick different lines and generally adapt one's riding for the really technical stuff is just plain hoot worthy. And never did I believe I'd live in the drops when tackling anything steep but I do. And it feels right. It just does.
I don't care if a 29er can do the same .... because while it is kind of the same, it also isn't ... it's different.
FTR most of my riding is in the Surrey Hill (all seasons) and there are only very few sections (bigger drops and stupidly steep) that I choose not to ride on it.
This chap knows his onions seems to agree (albeit in a more XC stylee) ...
They are essentially road bikes with an increased tolerance for rougher road surfaces, as long as you keep that in mind and don't think you're getting a magic all-in-one replacement for an MTB and a road bike then they can be great. I'm on to my 4th iteration of this type of machine from a PX Kaffenback to Crosslights 4 & 5 and now an NS RAG+. They just work really well for me as a commuter that opens up more traffic free routes and for getting some miles in around the local bridleways.