Thinking aloud coming up...
I consider myself more of a MTBer than roadie, but seem to spend a bit of time on my road bike. I was recently thinking I will just use the roadbike for commuting (just 20 mins each way in London), as I just got a new MTB, but after doing the Dunwich Dynamo and back (230miles) at the weekend and quite enjoying it, I'm thinking I may try do some more long-ish distance road rides.
I currently have a pretty much stock Boardman Pro Carbon 2014 ( http://www.wiggle.co.uk/boardman-pro-carbon-105-2014/) which hasn't had much love since new. Main issues at the moment is the gearing - front mech is very badly set up (and looks like the inside of the cage is rusting away, maybe from prolonged rubbing?), and the rear mech takes two taps on the shifter to move both up and down the cassette.
I have always hated front mechs, but largely because I never set them up correctly. If I actually get it working smoothly, should it be relatively pain free? For what it's worth, I rode the pretty flat Dunwich Dynamo in the big chain ring and using the full cassette (I know, chainline, but as above, front mech doesn't really work), only dropping to the granny ring for the steeper hills.
Because the majority of my rides are just to work, I was at one point thinking of moving to 1x gearing, but it looks like if I stay with 1x10 I will have reduced range (especially as my cassette is 11-25), and if I get a proper 1x11 setup that's expensive.
So, 3 options:
- Fix/replace front mech, new cables and clean outers for both mechs (I could also move to a wider range cassette here)
- Change to 1x10, smaller front chainring, may need to move to a wider range cassette too
- Change to 1x11
I'm currently erring towards option 1 as it will be the cheapest, and still have a good gearing range (undecided on whether to get a wider range cassette, it was annoying when I lived in the Peak District) - with the downside of having to live with a front mech.
Next set of issues is around comfort. This was a bigger issue than fitness on the Dunwich. On longer rides, I get sore knees, sore shoulder/neck, butt, and hands/wrists.
Sore knees - this isn't just from the bike, but I have never set up my cleats at all, just put them in the middle settings. I should look into this.
Sore shoulder/neck - stem too long or low? It currently has negative angle, maybe I should try flip it over - I like being in a racey position though (and spend a lot of time on the drops). I'm fairly flexible.
Sore butt - I wear bib shorts, but feel the saddle doesn't fit me well. What's the best way to find a saddle that fits me well, without having to buy loads of them?
Hands/wrists - this is from the constant road vibrations I think. Will getting some fancy bar tape help? Carbon bars? Lower tyre pressure?
I've considered getting a bike fitting to tackle some of the above, but wary to drop a load of money with uncertain outcomes.
Sorry that's so long! Any thoughts would be great.
Thanks,
Duane.
For the gears, option 1 - it's simple and easy, just hand the bike to a LBS with some money and come back later 🙂
The rest - do you know any roadies who can take a look with you for anything obvious?
You could benefit from a bike fitting session, as indicated by your sore backside - weight on the soft tissue over the nose of the saddle, rather than the pelvic bones on the back of the saddle. Likewise, sore wrists and shoulders can be indicative of over-reaching - if you have more of your weight over the back of the saddle, then you might be able to relax the 'death grip' on the bars. Flipping the stem could certainly be the first step.
Likewise, a fitting could help with your cleat placement / alignment.
Also, in terms of reducing road vibration, gel bar tape, decent mitts and running wider tyres at lower pressures can all help.
I've just gone back to the original saddle on my Defy as the Ritchey was getting uncomfortable after 50 miles or so. It had been fine on longer rides off road but then your not sitting down for such long periods. Anyway the difference in them seems mainly to be the shape the Giant saddle being more curved across its width. If I do a flexibility test then it suggests I should use a flatter saddle but that it seems to me doesn't take account of me being short and therefore not having a drop from the saddle to the top of the bars. While I can ride on the drops for a couple of hours without a problem I tend to ride mostly on the hoods so I'm in a relatively upright position. It might be worth looking at your position before looking at saddle profiles.
Option 1 and find someone who knows what they are doing. Shop for cables (that's all it is) and a club/fitter for advice on position. If the frame is a good fit, all else can be adapted for comfort. Even if it's a size too big/small, a good fit is still possible but handling does change a little.
Those 10 speed shifters never shifted well (some sharp cable exits out of the shifters. If you fancy upgrading, 11 speed would be a significant improvement. You would also be able to run 11-28 without loss of spacing. Might need only shifters and a cassette, depending on rear hub.
If you are local (Windsor), I do free fittings. DD there and back says you aren't in a bad place to be honest.
Thanks for the replies.
Option 1 does seem the most sensible.
I will get new gear cables as I'm pretty sure both are gummed up. They run through the frame, which has the thin outers inside the frame I believe - how important is it to replace this outers?
Any recommendations on cable inners? I normally get the cheapest, but happy to spend a little more this time.
If after new cables I'm still unhappy with shifting, I think I may just replace the front mech, maybe upgrade to an Ultegra as people say it shifts a bit smoother.
On the gearing, I would really like to do most of my riding (commuting) without having to shift to the little ring - which currently requires using almost all of the cassette cogs - resulting in a bad chain line and often rubbing on the front mech (compounded by bad mech setup...). I'm thinking of either moving to a smaller big front ring (cheap, but then reducing my top end gearing), or getting a wider range cassette (gain gearing range, more expensive). Any thoughts?
I will flip my stem over this weekend and see if it makes any difference.
Cheers,
Duane.
If you take your bike to a shop they will almost certainly insist on a new cable set whereas I leave the outers until I can see they are worn or kinked. Don't skimp on inners - Shimano work fine.
The quality of the shift is down to the shifter / cables not the mech - you can fit a DuraAce mech to Sora, but it'll still shift the same. With the front mech, it's all down to installation alignment - lots of online videos.
Thanks. I appreciate shifting is largely down to the shifter, but I have read people saying that with 105 shifters, they noticed the difference moving from a 105 front mech to an Ultegra one
Another question - I commute in trainers, but pedalling on my Shimano SL pedals - which isn't ideal as they are small and slippery, and I don't think it helps my knees. Does anyone use SPD pedal adapters, like these?
Cheers,
Duane.
Option 1 for drivetrain, but do it yourself...seriously it is really really easy, even if it is your first time, do it yourself then you will learn and be able to do it forever. If you can get away with 1x then do so, but for a road bike it is better to retain the front mech.
For fit, I'd give it a bit longer.....the position you're in on a road bike and therefore muscles you employ are different from a mountain bike so jumping from one onto the other will feel strange and exercise muscles you're not used to exercising...so give it some time to get used to it and then address the aches and pains that stay with you.
For sore writs this is something I suffer from too...I double up on bar tape at the contact points and wear gloves/mitts with lots of palm padding, which all helps but doesn't completely fix the issues. Changing position on the bars helps most, so don't sit in the same position for hours on end, move from the tops, to the hoods and the drops to mix it up a bit. I've just moved onto 28mm tyres and slightly lower pressures and that has helped too, and run 32's at even lower pressure on my commuter which is like riding on a cloud in comparison, but a bit draggier.
Re the shifting get a decent set of cable/outers like Shimano Optislick. If you're front mech is really gunked up you might benefit from replacing that too. They're pretty cheap. If you're feeling flush go for the new 105 it's a lot nicer than its predecessor.
The rest you can do yourself if you're the methodical type - see here, or get a bike fit and have someone guide you through it.
Worn, crudded and rusted cable outers are usually the reason why shifting is poor; derailleurs seldom malfunction unless really abused or damaged. The rust inside the FD cage is where the chain has worn through the chrome finish and is no reason to throw away the derailleur. Get some gel pads on the bars and while the tape is off get a complete new set of cables, don't waste time and energy trying to set up a trendy 1x gear arrangement.
Fit some plush cotton-wall tyres like Vittoria or Veloflex open Corsas and fit latex inners, you'll be amazed at the grip, comfort and acceleration.
Get a decent saddle like a Charge Spoon or the slimmer Charge Knife, most people seem to get on well with them.
Get a bike fit to sort saddle and bar height, position and angle.
Anyone know the situation with replacing outers when I have internal routing - I'm pretty sure the regular outer cable stops when it reaches the frame, and the inner then runs through a thin sleeve. Should I replace the sleeve, or just the regular outer, which is external to the frame?
Strip the bike and clean it. That's all it needs, a good clean. Take the mechs off and give them a scrub in the sink with some degreaser. Replace the shift and brake cables - that might be one for a bike shop if you're unsure about it as road shifters can be a bit fiddly, even more so if it's internal cable routing.
Depending on how much care it's had at all over the last few years you may find yourself replacing the chain and cassette as well in which case it's an ideal opportunity to get a cassette suitable for what you're using the bike for, perhaps a slightly wider range like 11-28. If you're fitting a new chain and cassette, make sure the rest of the drivetrain is clean! Nothing worse than fitting a brand new chain and it being covered in oily gunk in seconds because it's all spread from the jockey wheels over everything!
And then once you've replaced all the cables, the bars will need re-taping which will make it look smart and new again. New bar tape is great for smartening up a bike no end. 🙂
I've never seen an internal sleeve in the frame tube, only the cable terminating as it enters the frame and bare inner cable inside. There might be a few tiny rubber doughnuts on the cable to prevent it from rattling inside the tube. Replacing the cables is actually easier than you might think; just be sure to line all the bits up in the order in which they came off the bike or else you'll forget. Once you've removed the entry mouldings, it's not difficult to thread the new inner through the frame using the end of an old spoke or a bent wire to fish it out. With the RD cable just poke it through from the BB area and sometimes you'll get lucky and it will pop out of the rear dropout first time.
Your best investment for this job is some proper cable cutters. You can use them to crimp the end-caps on the inners as well.
Worn, crudded and rusted cable outers are usually the reason why shifting is poor
This - poor RD shifting is often due to the last outer before the RD. Typically a kink appears in the cable ferrule and that stops the shift up or down, two up one down or vice versa is the giveaway. A decent Shimano cable set for gears and brakes can transform a bike. Be careful cutting outers as you can crimp the ends. A nice tip is to insert some old cable, cut through outer and cable, then push the cable segment out. Then file down any rough edges and use a metal ferrule rather than the soft plastic ones.
I’ve never seen an internal sleeve in the frame tube, only the cable terminating as it enters the frame and bare inner cable inside
Quite common in aero frames with internal cabling. Mine has an inner running from the top tube entry point down to the exit for FD and RD (Giant Propel). Causes rattling when not adjusted properly.
2x front mechs are usually pretty easy to sort, although internal routing won't help if there's any tight spots. 11-25 with a compact double chainset will get you up nearly anything in the UK (although some of it may sting rather!)
Comfort.
What distances on it are you normally doing? It wouldn't be suprising to be a bit sore after 230 miles, if you normally only do 20 or 30!
If you genuinely have no idea about what you're doing, then yes - bike fit, but IME most stuff is pretty obvious. There's a large element of conditioning, and it helps if your in reasonable shape and have decent flexibility - improve those and a lot of fit issues go. Saddle height & fore/aft, should be pretty much the same as your (xc setup) MTB relative to the BB, then work the bars out from there. Don't be tempted to just go "short & high", just "because MTB" - all your doing is transferring more weight onto your arse and cramping your reach, which will make more work for your arms and shoulders. Longish and lowish means you're not hunched, you can rotate forwards from the hips, not by collapsing your lower back and you can use core strength to keep the weight off your hands - typically when I'm on the hoods or tops and working hard with elbows bent , I have next to no weight on my hands, On the drops a lot more, as that's where you want weight to make the bike corner. Or I can relax and sit up a bit, straighten my arms and take weight on the bars there.
No amount of web forum discussion can replace having your position assessed by an experienced bike fitter. At the lest, post pics on here or on Cycle Chat of your bike taken from the side then yourself on it leaning against a wall. Experienced eyes will soon spot problem areas.
How tall are you and what size is the bike frame?
The reason I ask is because my brother in law went to buy a bike from halfords. The teenage kid had one xl bike left in the sale and told him it would be a good fit with the seat down. My brother in law is 5ft10.
Halfords will sell you what they have in the shop or what's left in the Sale. If you are experiencing all those problems then it's possible the bike is the wrong size.
Although you can change the stem etc, if you are thinking of long distance cycling you need a bike that fits you not a bike that you fit around.
OK so I've just had a look at my bike (probably should have done that earlier...). It looks like:
Rear mech and rear brake run full outers through the frame
Front mech has no regular outer in the frame (could have an internal sleeve though, can't tell).
What's the best technique for running new outers through a frame - tape the new outer to the old outer and pull through? And for the front mech inner - just have to hope for the best in fishing it out with a bit of coat hanger etc etc?
Thanks,
Duane.
I'm about 6ft 1", frame is a large (sizing here:( http://www.wiggle.co.uk/boardman-pro-carbon-105-2014/)
Size chart for large is 183cm or 6ft ish. Looks like you are on the boarder with xl for that frame. Maybe the bike is slightly too small for you which would explain all the niggles you have.
If you can't set up a front mech properly save your self the hassle and just take your bike to a proper bike shop and get new inner and outer cables and your gears set up and a safety check.
A decent shop will also re tune it for free in a month when the cables have stretched.
I'm sure a decent bike mechanic on here will give you a rough quote although if you are London based you might need to triple the quote.
I N R A T S but:
1. your 4 year old road bike prob has a pretty worn transmission
2. your front mech probs won't need a new cable and I'd be surprosed if you'd rusted it through, may just need setup.
3. your rear mech may only need a new inner, or it might be worn out.
To convert your pedals, you wants some pedal dabs. Great devices. I use the Look variant.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bike-Dabs-SPD-SL-Clipless-Adapter/dp/B00JQJOJA8