All science is subject to revision in light of new results. Tim Noakes as much as any other. He publishes research papers He critiques existing studies. He points out where contradictory results and secondary observations from other experiments have been extrapolated past all sense by marketing teams.
I think he's rather more worthy of consideration than just a snide put down with no context.
The understanding of exercise associated hyponatremia courtesy of Noakes et al is saving lives where the sports nutrition industry would have carried on regardless. It will evidently take significant time for decades of misinformation to fall out of the body of received wisdom, as per the forum responses :"you're dehydrated mate"
If you haven't already get yourself a HRM or better a power meter and start recording your efforts so you learn your threshold power \ hr. I know my go all day pace is 157bpm \ 220w. Then look at how many calories you typically burn per hour at your threshold pace. I assume generally if I'm well rested and fed I have about 2500 calories in my legs. Then add up from there the gels and bars I need. Adding a couple for luck. I tend to eat on the hour.
example Sat s ride was 65mile \ 4.5k climbing at 16.9mph in just under 4 hours. Fuel was 2 slices of jammy toast , 2 sis caffeine gels, 2 water bottles one with energy one with electroyltes. Then when I finished the ride tuna mayo followed by brand on toast for lunch.
I generally find most people over eat and over drink....and over complicate
All science is subject to revision in light of new results. Tim Noakes as much as any other. He publishes research papers He critiques existing studies. He points out where contradictory results and secondary observations from other experiments have been extrapolated past all sense by marketing teams.
When you have numerous very eminent researchers and 'nutritional' (dietitian types with qualifications) posting comments such as
Tim Noakes is wrong about literally almost everything. He is more often wrong than many random, small-time pseudoscientific bloggers. Yet Tim speaks with profound conviction. I have no way of explaining this. I continue to be baffled by it.
You'll forgive me for being just a little dismissive of the woo promoter.
This is probably a non-medical diagnosis and neither is anything I write.
Last bit: hydration isn’t necessary to sustain performance;
Erm...how can I say this, apart from this is complete bollocks?
this is complete bollocks
It's not really.
Lab tests done on turbo trainers with one group drinking plenty to remain hydrated, other group just allowed to wet their mouths/lips but not drink. Second group finished dehydrated but with no significant drop in performance.
Obviously there's a point when the wheels fall off, but that's a quite a way away from being fully hydrated.
See also Chris Froome's AAF and the guy who designed the test saying the limit was for swimmers who don't finish races dehydrated, and not it's not appropriate for cyclists, who generally/always do.
Pro racers seem to be able to cycle quite hard at the end of the day despite that.
It’s not really.
Oh it is bollocks, dangerous bollocks of the highest order. Try not drinking all day and then ride 100miles on a hot day without drinking and tell us how you feel, or just have say 2 500ml bottles.
Pro racers seem to be able to cycle quite hard at the end of the day despite that.
The OP and the rest of us are not Pro racers and they seem to drink a shed load of water anyway.
One thing that I’m confused about is that people say that when you have expended all food reserves your body will start burning off fat. It doesn’t seem to be happening for me . Is there any way to try and help it
Your body will only start burning fat reserves if it's accustomed to doing so, it's not an automatic switch. From what I understand (and this may be totally wrong), fat is considerably harder to breakdown and therefore the body doesn't do it as easily as other reserves, and it only occurs under certain conditions, such as lower stressed exercise. Which by all accounts and judging by your OP, is not something you're doing.
For info on the how did you fuel a 100 mile ride, yesterday I did 206km with 1450m of climbing or 128 miles & 4757ft in a just over 7 & 1/2 hours, at just under 17mph / 27kph. I started with a decent tea of chicken & rice, got up at 6, had a bowl of porridge, then every hour had a small SiS bar or a gel later in the ride, at each of the 3 feed stations I had a banana, a slice of chocolate or lemon drizzle loaf and a handful of salted peanuts. I drank 6 x 750ml bottles of fluid, the first two being SiS Hydro Go and the last 4 being the weak carb drink mix they were offering at the feed station.
Post ride, it was the free burger with Cheese, followed by a 500ml protein shake, then a hefty evening meal an a couple of ciders. Today I feel right as rain, no dehydration, no stiffness or soreness, so the plan works for me.
I'm not going to go further on Noakes. It doesn't help this thread.
My experience [with standout memories]:
1. Isostar = cramps [two road races 1988/89 - Brill + Blowingstone, Oxfordshire]
2. Deep bonk on carbs [British Universities team time trial ~ 1989]
... allowing that there is a world of difference between the physiology of a twenty year old and forty+...
3. On the occasions that I have attempted fat adaptation... i) I lost weight; ii) I felt mentally sharper; iii) I was able to ride all day without fretting about fuelling/bonk [CLIC24 2008; Tweedlove Enduro 2016 practice and race days]
4. When I have not intentionally attempted fat adaptation, I've needed a basic replenishment fuelling strategy to get through a five hour + Enduro (but this has worked successfully) [Cream of the Croft / Ballo enduros 2018]
5. When I rehydrate (gulp down pints of fluid) after exercise, I tend to get bad cramps [always]
My recent approach has been a bit of a composite. I absolutely don't cope well with glucose heavy intake. Gels are a complete no-no. I'll go for plain water, sipped when thirsty or tipped over my head to cool down. I prefer "health" bars with ingredients you can identify - preferably a fruit / nut / seed mix and I can cope with (and probably need) one of them per hour. I don't believe in carb loading (for me) prior to the event as I'll just feel bloated and horrible, but normal diet and an attempt to taper will be just fine (which doesn't work when you have an enduro practice day the day before the event).
I'm attempting to go back in the direction of fat adaptation again because I feel better on it and I think it stands the chance of giving me the best coverage for two day events (practice and race day enduros).
Most importantly, YMMV.
Easy fella!
Did you read all of my post?
Obviously there’s a point when the wheels fall off, but that’s a quite a way away from being fully hydrated.
The point about pro racers was that absolutely everything about what they do is designed to optimise performance, and if it was a significant impediment to be a bit dehydrated, they wouldn't need special adjustments to test to account for it.
I'd imagine that for a summit finish, they aim to be dehydrated to the point where they're as light as possible, but not so dehydrated that it's significantly affecting performance.
I generally find most …. over complicate
Ya don't say... 😉
If you haven’t already get yourself a HRM or better a power meter and start recording your efforts so you learn your threshold power \ hr. I know my go all day pace is 157bpm \ 220w. Then look at how many calories you typically burn per hour at your threshold pace. I assume generally if I’m well rested and fed I have about 2500 calories in my legs. Then add up from there the gels and bars I need. Adding a couple for luck. I tend to eat on the hour.
I've realised I bonk quickly and need to keep eating regularly if I'm cracking on or racing, but if I just knock back the effort just a little, and it doesn't take much, I can just keep going without wanting or needing much at all, to the point where I feel better and more stable if I don't eat than if I snack, and get the rolling peaks and troughs of energy.
More research needed, but I don't do that many long rides!
Renton you’ll be fine. It’s very hot at the moment for UK temperatures, so fluids are more important than ever. I’ll typically ride 100 miles on 2x 1L bottles from SIS with isotonic not calorific drink. Lemon is the nicest when you are hot I find.
For fuel. Eat well before. I can’t recomment tuna and rice enough. Cold and at least two hours before you start. A half mug of rice, one mug of water. Summer till absorbed then stir in a time of tuna in brine. During the ride your going to need to refuel. Once every 30 minutes or so. Bananas go down well but get squishy. I like Nak’d cocoa date bars but not a lot of calories. Some porridge pouches called oats to go give 60g of carbs.
If you like to have something solid butbstruggle to swallow (Like me) the Bloks are very good and go down easily. One packet is about a gel
I rode 320 miles of a planned 480 yesterday on porridge and gels with the odd bar. Sadly I was a DNF. But double your longest distance is a good achievable milestone. Eating and comfort will be what matters. But 500 mL of drink per hour minimum. It’s hard to recover when it goes downhill. And it’s not a race. Except mine was 😉
At the weekend we did a 320km loop along canals and NCN routes, bivvying overnight. 175km on Saturday, 145km yesterday. About 1000m of climbing each day.
A couple of cafe stops both days plus something a bit more substantial Saturday evening before we found somewhere to bivy. Trail food was GORP - Good Ol' Raisins and Peanuts. Hydration was plain water plus a can or two of pop. I probably had three litres of fluid each day.
As above, there's a big difference between racing (or riding close to your limit) and riding at a steady pace. The pros need high levels of hydration because they are pushing it, generally only for four to five hours on a typical stage. For most of the two days my HR was probably in the 100-110bpm range a couple of the steeper climbs like climbing up from the Woodhead tunnels it will have been higher. Even with the high temperatures I wasn't sweating that much.
BTW Pros will not be seriously dehydrated In climbs, they manage their weight over a grand tour by restricting food input. Froome will be aiming to shed a kilo or more for the last week . They have a team of dietitians to manage this. But they drink plenty on the road. We just don’t see it. And the weather is similar to our current heatwave.
Having it all managed makes things a lot easier. 500-750 mL/hr, some of this can be energy drink if you can stomach it.
I can’t recomment tuna and rice enough. Cold
🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮
The OP and most non racers just need to eat oaty complex carbs regularly, drink water regularly and take it steady have a couple of gels in their back pockets in case of emergency.
500-750 mL/hr, some of this can be energy drink if you can stomach it.
I tend to have one bottle of dilute energy drink and one of water. That way I can pour water down my neck and energy drink tends to make me bloated. I said on page one use about half the recommended amount of the powder.
anagallis_arvensis
...Try not drinking all day and then ride 100miles on a hot day without drinking and tell us how you feel, or just have say 2 500ml bottles...
I did something like that a couple of weeks ago on one of our hot days (high 20s).
Set off after breakfast with 2 500ml bottles and did 125 miles at an audax pace. Felt ok but a bit dry at the end.
I didn't take more water because there's plenty rivers and streams on the way, but I didn't feel the need.
(Plain water with a squeeze of lemon, no electrolytes)
Obviously someone travelling at a race pace will be generating more body heat and needs to dissipate it more, thus more sweat, more fluid required.
Obviously someone travelling at a race pace will be generating more body heat and needs to dissipate it more, thus more sweat, more fluid required.
You'd have been dehydrated even if it was cold just through normal breathing. Just because it can done done it doesnt make it sensible or healthy. I would drink that much on a hot day doing no exercise.
Doesn't mean it's stupid, dangerous or unhealthy, either. Extreme dehydration can have serious health consequences up to and including death, there's no doubt. But being "dehydrated" isn't binary, you're not suffering badly or completely fine, there's a curve, and experience and science show it's not going be the end of the world if you end up being a bit dehydrated.
I think that's what's being argued, no-one's advocating not bothering water. Hopefully no-one's reading this and deciding that they don't need to drink on long rides any more. Maybe you're being cautious and just making sure that you catch those people. Probably one of those cases where people are basically in agreement, but get pushed further and further apart by statements that are a little further the other way than they're comfortable with.
You’d have been dehydrated even if it was cold just through normal breathing.
A bit left field. Last year I did the Rovaniemi 150, a fat bike race in Lapland, in February. On the discussion about frost bite one of the recommendations was to ensure you drank enough as dehydration is a contributory factor.
The sad truth is that's its the pace that will knacker you. I struggled at the end of a 50miler the other day as we pushed on at our normal / slightly higher than normal pace but I simply didn't have the legs through not riding enough this year. Normally it'd be no issue at all, but I went to lead in the last couple of miles. Fed reasonably well throughout, just a few too many short sharp hills I rushed over rather than sitting up and spinning up.
100 miles on the flat though is easier IME than 50 with 1000m of climbing. Certianly easier to regulate effort, unless there is a headwind from hell. If you eat some proper food at regular intervals, maybe have some Torq or sometihng in your bottles and make use of refill stations you'll be fine. Just keep a lid on that effort .. never mind hrms etc if you don't use them, just don't be pushing so hard you struggle to talk at too many points.
A gel or two might be a handy psychological lift @ 80 in, if you're used to them.
experience and science show it’s not going be the end of the world if you end up being a bit dehydrated.
Which you will be even if you drink lots.
not sure what was complicated about my advice.
learn to pace. learn what you calorie per hour burn is at said pace. So let's say you aim to complete a 100 miler in 7 hours at a sustainable pace of 500 calories per hour. you need approx 3500 calories. let's say you are fresh and had a decent carb heavy meal the night before. you will need approx 1000 calories intake to avoiding bonking. you should take on a bit more so you don't finish complelty empty. though some level of defecit is probably a good idea for most who aren't sat at optimimum weight. OP doesn't mention height, but 17.5st is pretty hefty for a cyclist.
drinks wise it is super hot and I made the mistake last year on a hilly south downs century solo of not taking it into account. I only planned one water stop (so 4 x 750ml) on what turned out to be the hottest day of the year. At the 80 mile mark I was a mess. so bad that another cyclist stopped whilst I was huddled under the only bit of shade I could find and gave me half a bottle to get home. took 2 days to get rid of the headache
every one is different, the way to learn about how you perform is to start recording and measuring to understand what works for you
HOw do you pace yourselves though ? Yesterday i thought i was taking it easy.... then got home and saw my Strava littered with glittering awards on the first half of the ride... but i would have sworn i was cruising it.
I really struggle with knocking off the extra bit that would allow me to ride in the latter stages.
use the numbers and know your zones, a HRM works fine, power meter better.
of course some days you aren't quite feeling it, or coming down with the lurgy others your flying but if I look back at all my stats they are remarkably tight. so I know if I'm averaging 300+ watts / 170+ nom for anything longer than 10 mins or so on an endurance rode I am likely to be falling short in the latter part of the ride. always best to start slow and finish strong imo.
Mentioned several times in the thread: get a HRM; work out your HR zones and STICK to Zone 1 for long or multi-day rides, Zone 2 for something under 12hrs. Zone 1 is often called "Recovery", Zone 2 "Endurance".
For me (and I stress for me) Z1 tops out at 125bpm and Z2 tops out at 137bpm. The latter rate is quite hard TBH, and on a hot day I wouldn't like to be riding at that pace for very long. As reference on the flat on a typical gravel canal tow path my HR will be in the 110bpm range on an MTB at 20kmh. That's an all day level of effort, I wouldn't be doing that speed up hills either!
It does take quite a bit of will power though. Just because you normally keep up with X doesn't mean you are as fit as they are or able to cope with the particular conditions.
let’s say you aim to complete a 100 miler in 7 hours at a sustainable pace of 500 calories per hour. you need approx 3500 calories. let’s say you are fresh and had a decent carb heavy meal the night before. you will need approx 1000 calories intake to avoiding bonking.
It's OK as a rule of thumb, but it isn't strictly correct particularly wrt the dreaded knock.
It all depends on your energy physiology and fitness. A pro could do 100 miles in 7 hours on just water; their power output per effort is sufficiently high that to ride at that pace all they'll use up is stored energy.
The bonk comes when your glycogen stores in your muscles and liver run out. And it's horrible. But you don't use anywhere near as much glycogen as long as you stay below your threshold - that point where your system goes from aerobic to anaerobic - hence why I think as important as fuelling and drinking is knowing what your threshold is and trying as much as possible to stay below it. So yes, topping up your food as you go is correct, but you can't refuel the glycogen anywhere near as fast as you CAN burn it and when it's gone - the engine management light comes on and you limp home.
Power meter - best.
HRM - good, for us weekend warriors
Neither - the effort level is where you switch from being able to hold a relatively reasonable conversation to conversing with a few words followed by a gap to catch your breath.
And for us 'far end of the rail' shoppers - there will be times (hills mainly) where we will be above that level just to keep moving - so knowing that you are spending time in that zone because you have to makes it more important you don't go into that zone when you don't. hence - steady as she goes on the flat, no big pulls on the front as if it was a team time trial no matter how strong you feel...... conserve as long as you can and then burn it off in the last 10-15% if you have legs then.
@weeksy; might have been a bad day but do you use a HRM? What time did you spend in each zone knowing some of those climbs are almost certainly above threshold efforts even at easy pace, and if you were setting PB's then definitely they were.
Addendum to the above.
Basically this is what the pros do on the long Alpine climbs when the commentator says something like "Sky are riding tempo". Tempo is the next zone up from Endurance and above that you go past your lactate threshold, i.e. you are going into the red. So anyone who wants to breakaway not only has to go into the red but stay there for a while to make the break stick. The GC contenders are all within a small margin of each other and there's no way they'll risk overcooking things.
This is why breaks tend to happen at other times such as on descents - Froome himself did so - or at a point when others aren't keeping an eye on things.
You can graph sustained HR against duration: an out an out sprint at close to max HR can only be sustained for tens of seconds. As the HR drops so you can ride at that level for longer until you get to a level where effectively there is no limit and the graph flattens out.
A couple of winters ago I did a lot of turbo work using TrainerRoad. One of the metrics that came out of that was such a graph of, in this case, power vs time. The graph isn't a smooth curve, there's often a flattening at certain points. This can be either because you only tested yourself at that power level later during the program so you were stronger or that your body is optimised for that level of effort. Put simply: *you* need to characterise how *you* perform at different work loads.
HOw do you pace yourselves though ?
I know that from hard training rides and https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ , that my heart rate z4 is ~162-171, I therefore try to not get excited on longer rides and chase PBs, ensuring my heart rate stays under 160bpm.
And while I know I can average ~300-320W up a cat 3/4 on a good day to chase PBs under 15mins, or hold ~250W average over rolling cat3/4 terrain for an hour, that pace will catch up with me on longer rides. So on a planned longer ride, I will drop into easier gears and spin at a higher cadence, even if that means using my 34-32 lowest gear, to try and minimise how much I go over the 250W threshold on a climb.
Taking my last two rides purely as examples, it's the difference between https://www.strava.com/activities/1716853439 (training ride, including ~8mins visit to Halfords) and https://www.strava.com/activities/1721085988 (recovery ride)
It's all about knowing ballpark figures of what your body can take and if you're pushing the distance and/or ride time envelopes, ride conservatively early on... Until you are absolutely sure you can complete the ride.
Two examples from my Strava - both road rides
On one, I took it easy and got home feeling lovely and fresh. The other was much hillier and I was properly knackered by the end. Similar time overall, only difference was one was hilly and one wasn't hence the time spend out of the comfortable zones 1/2/3
Z1 9.5 mins / 4%
Z2 100mins / 42%
Z3 110 mins / 46%
Z4 18 mins / 8% (basically only if I had to, was a flat ride)
Z5 8s (in a pointless race for 'KoM' against a mate up one of the hills 😉 )
Z1 10 mins / 5%
Z2 45 mins / 21%
Z3 87 mins / 39%
Z4 62 mins / 28%
Z5 16 mins / 7%
Can I just bring the nutrition and sports scientists back to the original question of getting a mild chubber around a 100 mile bike ride....
- Have a good meal the night before, ideally pasta, rice etc.
- Have a good breakfast
- Drink regularly (750ml bottle every 25 milesish). Water is fine.
- Eat regularly (cereal bar every 25 miles, grab a banana at the feed stations, there's always bananas at feed stations).
- Have an emergency gel, in your pocket, just in case.
- Ride at a steady pace (as someone said above, where your breathing means you can just about keep a conversation going)
You'll be fine. It's a sportive, not Le Tour.
I agree - just wanted to make the point that you can eat and drink all you like, if you are burning your reserves faster than they go back (and to all intents and purposes you can't replenish glycogen on the go) then you will blow up.
And of the two evils - getting to the finish and thinking you could have gone a bit harder is by far the lesser one compared to phoning your mummy and begging her to come and pick you up at the 75 mile marker 😉
i would doubt anyone is burning up their glycogen stores if riding at a 100 mile sustainable pace...kind of obvious. .which is why I.said it is about pacing.
anyways it's really not that hard if you go slow and enjoy the view. when I was much fitter (2015 before the littleones). I.would do.a couple of unsupported centuries a month. generally no.stopping, just a malt loaf, some gels and 2 bottles and a colapasable one. if I tried that now I'd be calling the.wife to bail me out.
Renton, basically what we are all saying is.
We are all different but we have found what works for us.
You need to find what works for you.
Will there be feeding/drinking stations on this ride? If there are how far apart are they?
i would doubt anyone is burning up their glycogen stores if riding at a 100 mile sustainable pace…kind of obvious. .which is why I.said it is about pacing.
Maybe not on a flat 100, but if there are hills, and your a fat 49 year old weekend warrior, some hills will have you in that territory. I know I will be for Ride London up Leith for example, I'll be Z4 just to keep moving and Z5 if I want to push it. I can do Box in Z3 but at a snails pace which is no fun, likewise Newlands.
So I will be burning my matches, I just need to ensure I haven't burnt them all when I'm still 20 miles from home. Which means like I said, no big turns on the front trying to hold 25mph out of London!
I burnt all my marches last weekend. I’m hoping for a miracle recovery this week for what will be the hardest 100 yet for me. If I get under five hours I’ll be pleased! And the following weekend is a 12 hr TT.
Renton find abat you like eating. I found peanut and cashews
Thanks for all of the replies chaps
I'm pretty sure there are feeding stations on the way round so that should help .
I went out on my MTB yesterday. Nothing hard just a ride into the local town with my two boys.
My ass was killing. Even though I have the same saddle on my road and MTB I couldn't get comfy !
I've got a few rides planned over the next few weeks to build the milage so will experiment with food .
I know I'm never going to be a racing snake but would like to think that all this riding is helping me get fitter and also lose weight
Fyi 6 foot 1 and just under 17.5 stone.
Which means like I said, no big turns on the front trying to hold 25mph out of London!
You will, though, won't you? You know you will. 😀
Shhhh!!
all this riding is helping me get fitter and also lose weight
you should be getting fitter, you'll only be losing weight if you aren't overeating.
when i look back at when I was solely a mtb rider I realise that a ride was actually a 3 - 4 hour sugary eating frenzy punctuated with the odd climb followed by another rest and a flapjack. Not until I started road riding, when there isn't really obvious breaks whilst you wait for your mates did I start losing weight and realise I was eating wayyyyy too much. At one point I went to the GP because I stared worrying about my weight lose - I was dropping around 1kg a week, down from 80ish to a slightly froomesk 72 at 5 11. GP pointed out that despite me eating everything I could, and not feeling hungry, that 15hrs cycling a week was quite a lot and start monitoring calories in / out.
your first century is a bit of a milestone, once you've done it you will be loads more confident on taking on bigger challenges.
Having spouted "Advice" at the OP a few days ago and myself not having done a century or any big rides for quite a while I thought it might be worth trying some of what I had suggested myself (moderating effort/speed) just to see how my endurance actually measures up, this was done with minimal/no proper preparation as follows...
Me: 38 / 5'10" / 85kg
Bike: ~10kg Carbon jobbie with 25mm Conti GPs (80psi Rear/70psi Front)
My Typical rides over the last month or so (on the road bike) have been evening rides of around 35 miles at around 17mph avg taking a couple of hours, Avg Hr of around 152bpm, I've been getting through about 1 - 1.5L of water and haven't taken any additional food or water additives...
The Preceding 24hrs "preparation": Home from work ~ 18:00 Hrs, Ate meal of fishcakes, corn on the cobb, New potatoes, and had 2 slices of toast ~10:00 Hrs, Late to bed at ~12:30.
The following Morning Rushed about, Skipped Breakfast, had a Cereal bar, apple and a couple of carrots as snacks through the day, Lunch was a packet of instant Noodles, knocked off early at 16:45 got home and was out on the bike about 17:30.
The ride: My goal was to try and follow my own advice and stick to a sensible HR, target an Avg speed of 15mph, cover at least 50 miles and then assess my physical state and whether or not I felt I had anything left in the tank, much like the OP did a week or so ago. I took one Cranberry cereal bar and a Soreen lunch box thingy as these were spare in the cupboard, I set off with 1.75L of water. the route was moderately flat with a few hills total climbing was 2684<abbr title="feet">ft</abbr>
I made the same basic mistake everyone does and set off at what felt like a "Comfortable Pace" by about 6 miles in I was averaging 17mph but my HR was staying in Z2 and even dipping into Z1 on descents.
From there I let the avg speed drop to ~15mph, it went a little under to around 14.6 following a few climbs and came back up with flats and descending, I ate the cereal bar at about 18:50hrs and the soreen at 19:45, I then spotted a Tesco and ducked in for a banana and a pack of jelly babies, at this point I'd covered ~ 35 miles.
I got to ~40 miles and felt fresh so I set off on an additional loop I guestimated would be about 15 miles my Avg on the Garmin at this point was bob on 15mph, however I could tell I was beginning to tire slightly as my HR was going between High Z2 and low Z3 and recoving HR on descents or coasting seemed to take longer, despite this I decided this last loop could be run at a bit harder (partly to try and beat the sunset), So my HR for the last hour and a half was a bit higher. As it turns out my last section was actually 20miles and my HR was now touching Z4 on some of the flats but I was comfortable...
I finally got home inside of 4 hours, at an Average of 15.3mph and avg HR of 148bpm, when I got back I reckon I probably still had another 15-20 (flatish) miles in my legs if I'd stocked up on more water and found something more to eat. I think also going the harder for last 20 miles had a noticeable effect, I was expending more energy than necessary and let the pacing and HR management slip again.
Really it was the middle 30 or so miles that let me get round comfortably, If I'd stuck to a marginally lower pace closer to 14.8 - 15mph throughout I'd probably have kept my HR down to ~145ish and probably be able to go for much longer (distance wise), at 15mph avg 100miles would take just under 6hrs:40mins, ~14.3mph avg you'd be on for about 7hrs...
Lessons Learned: Start slower, pay more attention to managing pace and HR, prepare better with diet and sleep over the preceding 24-48hrs...
I might just rest up a bit tonight/tomorrow and use some spare time I have on Saturday morning to see if I can improve and hit a steady 75-80 miles at the same pace...
Good summary.....
I visualize the effort to output graph as effectively two pieces. Z1 and Z2 are an increasing gradient line, the more effort (higher HR) you put in, the faster (more power) you go all other things being equal. It's not linear, particularly solo riding as above a certain speed the majority of extra effort to raise your speed goes into overcoming wind resistance, but broadly speaking and within reason, the harder you work the faster you go. But it's sustainable.
Z3, is the same but the curve starts to pick up more notably. Obvious statement but if my threshold HR is at 83% of max (roughly) it's harder but still sustainable riding at 80% than it is at 75% even though they're both in the same Z3 band.
Once you hit Z4 - and it is literally crossing that barrier from 140bpm to 145bpm for me - that starts to feel hard, and rather than the curve just steepening further, it's a point of inflexion. At this point even just a little bit faster means a lot more effort, and that is the effort that burns matches and eventually makes you bonk.
I did similar to you when i was training for a 12hr MTB solo, plus reading quite a lot about it too. I was quite amazed how much difference even dropping half a mph made and if I stayed at around 135bpm, I could ride for hours.
But also be warned; while it's good to know that number (as i suggested above) and to stay below it when you can, if all you do is ride in that band you don't get better. In fact, i think my overall riding went backwards, because I became very good at riding steadily at that pace and nothing else. Hence you have to know the number, but train hard for at least some of it, to increase your power which has impacts in all bands - stands to reason that if you get muscularly stronger then your output even at the same 80% effort level will be higher.
Which finally is why i reckon the pros have it easy. When they climb a big hill, they'll be at a certain effort level. Me too, on a % basis. The difference is they'll have to sustain that for say 30 minutes to reach the top, whereas i'd have to do it for 60 😉
But also be warned; while it’s good to know that number (as i suggested above) and to stay below it when you can, if all you do is ride in that band you don’t get better. In fact, i think my overall riding went backwards, because I became very good at riding steadily at that pace and nothing else. Hence you have to know the number, but train hard for at least some of it, to increase your power which has impacts in all bands – stands to reason that if you get muscularly stronger then your output even at the same 80% effort level will be higher.
Duly noted, I'd say yesterdays effort was roughly 55-60% "Managed pacing" and there was some benefit in terms of being able to cover distance, but I'll continue to do shorter, higher effort rides too, much due to time constraints as anything else...
TBH, it's not something I've ever done properly before, so I wanted to see if I could actually manage pace and work rate myself...
I've ridden a couple of centuries, done a few 70 - 80 mile rides and some back to back 2x75mile days, but I've never paced myself properly for any of these, and I've generally finished a bit knackered each time, usually bonked and in survival mode for the last 10-15 miles of any distance efforts over 70 odd miles.
It just struck me that while I was handing out my wonderfully insightful advice to the OP about pacing, it was advice I've never actually followed myself, so it seems a bit rich for me to start offering suggestions that seem logical but which I've never followed for myself... So I'm going to try it for myself.
The other thing I took from what I did yesterday is that the pretty abysmal preparation, not enough sleep and attrocious diet didn't seem to prevent me covering the distance, I think if I'd upped the whole ride avg to ~16mph I'd have bonked around 40-45 miles, admittedly I ingested plenty of refined sugar during the last 25 miles, had I done that throughout I could have gone faster, but I'm not sure it would have been sustainable for much beyond the 60 miles covered.
Thinking longer term I'm a good 6kg (1 stone) into the 'overweight' band (on BMI) which I need to address sooner rather than later. So some of the stuff posted earlier in this thread did also prompt me to go look at Fat adaptation, amongst other dietary change options, TBH that seems like quite a commitment and not something you'd choose to do midway through the summer with a lots of riding on the horizon; it seems it would take at least a month to change the way you process food and transition away from running on Carbs/sugar to Fat/Protein, but I can see the potential benefits of such a change in diet, especially if it ultimately it helps to shed weight and corespondingly improve speed and endurance... But as a recommendation for the OP, who is preparing for an event in under a month, I can't see it being a good idea, moderate carb intake down when not exercising fine, maybe try taking on more protein after exercise to aid recovery, but a whole sale shift to fat adaptation isn't a good idea under these circumstances (IMO)...
I did the nottingham wheeler 100 last week and ate the following.
Ride to 1st stop: 1 small packet of harribo, 1 bottle of power bar go stuff
1st top: 1 slice of flapjack, 1 slice of cake, half a bannana.
Ride to second stop: 1 bottle of sis orange (whats provided by organisers), 1 packet of haribo, 1 cliff choc bar, 1 gel.
Second stop: slice of toffey cake, slice of flapjack, half a bananna
Ride to third stop: 1 cliff bar, 2 sis gels, 1 packet of harribo, 1 bottle of horrid sis lemon and lime
Third stop: 2 slices of toffey cake, 1 slice of flapjack
Ride to finish: 1 bottle of powerbar go stuff started with.
Plan was try to eat little and offten not to have loads at a feed station and digest it all on the ride.
Pace was ok (avareaged about 18mph in a group) till any hill then just dropped to a crawl, i dont mind hills just slow.
I'm 6'6" about 98kg garmin says burned 7800 calries and didn't drink enough and took about 6.5 hrs on a pick and flick with 35's on. I would have like somthing not sugary to eat so will be packing sandwiches next time.
Out of interest where do people fill bottles up on solo 100 milers? I wouldn't want to leave bike outside a shop and taking a is adding a huge chunk of weight.
For water in Switzerland you have lots of fountains in most villages/ towns.
some areas of France have this too but some water isn’t drinkable.
This do sn5 help you but thought I’d mention it 🙂
in the uk I stop at shares and take a hiplok combo with me. Small, lightweight, cheap and secure.
