On paper, mine and his should be similar
A lot depends how they've been tuned - which can be done easily in the app.
Default assist on my Rise was very different to how i run it now. It's also worth turning Eco up to a level where you use it. And Boost should be full turbo as there's no point getting home with a semi-full battery.
I also have profiles for local blasts, big days out. Definitely worth playing with.
@rockhopper70 That's a whopping ride!
I know there are too many different factors to make it relevant between two different people, but what sort of numbers are you getting without the range extender? Must usal local rides are around 15 - 20 miles with around 1500-1800ft of climbing, or whatever that is in new money. Time, or lack of it, is usually the deciding factor in how long I'm out for.
I should have another look at the Canyons.
Without the RE, budget for 40km and 1000m of elevation. Did that with 15% of battery remaining. The Bosch app suggested I put in 55% of the effort, the bike the rest. Mileage breakdown for each mode was;
Tour+ 13
eMTB 6.8
Eco 4.6
Turbo 371ft!
Always leave a bit in the tank for the boost home…
@flyingpotatoes Looking good together! Is your mate's Rise noisy? I can't get past the potential motor rattle when coasting otherwise it would be the bike for me. As the replies here show, it seems to vary from bike to bike and people's tolerance of it varies too. It's certainly audible on the POV videos I've watched, but then I'm not riding it and focused on the trail ahead
I've not noticed any rattle and he hasnt complained about any noise.
He's into his 3rd year on the rise. He's had 2 issues. First was the freehub failed and was replaced under warranty. Second issue was the shock pivot had an issue which he fixed himself.
Bear in mind that on the rise and wild you can't remove the battery easily. On the wild you have to drop the motor. That may matter to you. Not sure on the other bikes that have been mentioned above.
@rockhopper70 That's a whopping ride!
I know there are too many different factors to make it relevant between two different people, but what sort of numbers are you getting without the range extender? Must usal local rides are around 15 - 20 miles with around 1500-1800ft of climbing, or whatever that is in new money. Time, or lack of it, is usually the deciding factor in how long I'm out for.
Christ, that's FLAT... 🤯
Most of my local rides are 15-20 miles with 1000-1500m (so 3200-4800ft) of climbing! There are people on this forum who live in Scotland, or Wales, or on the Malverns, whose typical ride readily doubles my typical elevation per distanced travelled figures too...
To reiterate, I have BOTH a Bosch CX powered bike (Mondraker Crafty R with 800Wh battery, comes in at 24kg) and a Bosch SX bike (Canyon Neuron OnFly with 400Wh battery, comes in at 20kg)... Both have their merits, and I prefer each for different types of riding...
The CX bike is better for steeper terrain, more "winch and plummet" style riding. Going somewhere to shuttle technical descents, or with big steep climbs, the extra torque of the CX comes into its own... Where the CX falls flat (as do most full fat eBike motor systems in my opinion) is when you're riding more flowing terrain and constantly needing to pedal the bike above the 25km/h motor limit (assuming you're not chipping the bike)... The bike feels lethargic and hard work, like pedalling through treacle, and you can watch people on regular MTB's or lightweight eMTB's pull away from you in these conditions I have learnt! This can be really annoying, and is the sole reason I know a lot of guys actually do chip their bikes (I flatly refuse to).
The SX bike is better for more flowing terrain, more typical "trail" riding if you will... Maybe not quite so much elevation per distance travelled... I'm typically getting around 225-250m elevation per 100Wh of battery on both bikes, so realistically on the SX bike, I'm gonna run out at 1000m of elevation (and have done 3 times now at almost exactly this figure each time!) without a range extender, but I can pretty much double that figure on the CX bike. Distance travelled doesn't seem to matter on either bike, but even less so on the SX bike, as it's so light and efficient off the motor still, it feels almost like a conventional MTB even pedalling it above the 25km/h motor assist limit...
I'd certainly consider what type of riding you do, and where you ride, before committing to a bike... There's so many good bikes out there, it's hard to buy a bad one, but it's easy to buy one that's not so well suited to your own requirements...
If your typical rides are sub 2000ft climbing as you state, and they're more flowy singletrack kind of rides rather than winch and plummet type riding... Then I absolutely would suggest considering lighter eBikes with lower torque motors like the Bosch SX over and above full power bikes. I have the choice of both, and I know which is far more fun in this type of situation... In fact, if the ride is likely to be 1000m of elevation or less, I'll pick the SX bike every time as it's subjectively more fun to ride (lower torque, higher cadence motor is more involving, and the 4kg less weight helps too). If it's likely to be more than 1000m and I'm likely to need to keep pace with guys on full fats on steeper climbs, then I'll take the CX bike because obviously it's far better at doing this, and it's also better on the steep techy descents by virtue of a bit more suspension travel, more aggressive tyres and more powerful brakes too.
I've been fortunate to have both for sure, but if I had to choose between motors, I'd probably stick with the SX bike and get a range extender truth be told... I could up the performance parameters in the Bosch app a little, giving me a touch more punch, and 650Wh of battery would probably allow me to just about keep up with most of my mates on their full fats for around 1200-1400m of climbing. It's rare I've used more than 70% of the capacity of the 800Wh battery on my CX bike on a ride (only 3 times in fact, and all 3 rides were 1700-2000m elevation) so I would generally be OK with 650Wh, and I have detuned my CX motor anyway to give max of 50Nm in Eco, 70Nm in Tour+ mode (which is the mode I'm in most) and 85Nm in eMTB, only getting the full 100Nm in eMTB+ (I removed Turbo as didn't like the brick wall of power) which has been used for less than 2% of the entire distance I've done on the bike!
What's interesting to me, is that going into the Bosch app, I find that my personal power output on both bikes tends to average out about the same, only dropping slightly on longer rides on the CX bike... It's been useful tracking my improvement in fitness too, as I was only averaging around 140W input on a ride 18 months ago when I was just getting back into it, but I'm typically around 200-210W avg on a ride now on either bike. I'm 93kg though which certainly means my watts per kg aren't going to win me any medals any time soon, but I've seen people posting about poor range and elevation figures on facebook groups, then asked them what their average power figures were, and they came back with figures like 120-130W which then combined with a 110kg weight, explains why their distance and climbing figures were much worse!
I should have another look at the Canyons.
It's a great bike, loving mine... I'd be stretching my budget to this if I possibly could in your situation though... https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/whyte-e-lyte-140-v1-electric-bike?gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=1055895549&gbraid=0AAAAAD_ilfIA0Dp9I3Lbb_yxgy5IIA60U&gclid=Cj0KCQiA9t3KBhCQARIsAJOcR7wtBU53GvBuHv1JDpoKm5s6oMvQ9iMtz-ZIge4Y55j52CPjws2RVUIaAgEZEALw_wcB#187=4593
Just ditch the 34's for some 150mm travel 36's, up the shock stroke to 55mm and fit some better tyres, and revel in the performance of an 18kg eBike (should still be sub 20kg with the range extender fitted) that rides and feels like a high end conventional MTB, but still has up to 600W of power and 60Nm of torque to call on when needed!
I've been following this and similar threads for a good while and have singularly impressed myself at my inability to make a decision.
I think @mboy 's post above is one of the better ones (no offence to the other useful contributorions) and really informative.
My main differentiator is that I want full fat with 160mm, or more, travel to winch and plummet. That way I hope to catch up with some of the guys I used to ride with on the steeps (and flow!) where they have now left me far behind as they session descents far far more than I can on my manual enduro.
I am happy to keep the Stage Evo for flow and fun, but when out with the guys I need to have practiced a lot more on the steeps.
A really useful thread STWers, keep it up.
Buy a Whyte and spend a load more money to make it more like the Orange (and about the same weight) 🤔
@flyingpotatoes I starting to think the noise thing might just be something that's overblown by the internet, certainly on the EP801.
@mboy That's super helpful advice and insight, thank you.
The distance/elevation figures are just for my local woods on the edge of the city, which have lots of short but loopable trails ranging from flowly, to rough to natural, and a couple of jump lines. It's a 5 mile road cycle from my house so great for a blast after work. Probably ideal for a mid power bike to get a few more loops in.
I tend to venture a bit further at the weekends though, to places with a lot more climbing, both trail and fireroads, hence the partial desire for a full power. Aberdeenshire has a lot of stuff to offer. Perhaps that is worth compromising for a more suitable daily driver though.
As I said above, I think that's why the Rise has so much appeal as its almost two bikes in one (for the bigger battery models). I could also grudgingly loose my bottle for a range extender on bigger days out.
The Bosch SX is starting to sound more appealing too, although I keep reading that it benefits from a higher cadence and I'm not sure how that translates to how I ride as its not something I've ever considered in 30+ years of mountain biking. The "change gear" notification seems useful though!
From the SX bikes I've looked at tonight the Merida e160 SL 6000 stands out. Seems to get great reviews and the Marz shock and fork are meant to perform well. A penny under budget in the sales too. I'll check out reviews for other SX bikes over the weekend.
That Whyte E-Lyte has crazy spec for the money! However, if I was in a position to spend 6k I'd probably just get an Avinox bike like a mid tier Megamo Reason. Seems to have better bike attached to the motor than the Amflow, and from an actual bike company too.
@nickingsley I hear you! I'm super indecisive when it comes to buying anything, even trivial stuff... never mind expensive bikes! You're right though, the replies in this thread and others like it have been amazing. Always good to get different people's opinions and perspectives to help with the choice paralysis.
Luckily (or not maybe), I don't have any eeb friends I need to keep up with. I'm pretty much a solo rider but my occasional riding buddy is far too fit to need assistance so he can chase me uphill for a change!
Good luck in your own search!
@StuE The Whyte mboy posted would be hard to beat! I still need to read/watch some reviews on the Orange.
If winstanleys had the whyte in s (well anybody at that sale price) I would have got that (decided I want to try sx sl bike), but they had this instead, it does feel like 16.2kg, also a slightly heavier slx version under 4k, initial impressions (of both bike and motor good) but it’s a summer bike for me and it’s a mud fest where I am so not used much yet
https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/cube-ams-hybrid-one44-c-68x-slt-400x-29-2025-electric-bike
ps check the specs as this light has some compromises. I did a NeBD post with more details.
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/bike-forum/nebd-4/#post-13675850
@citizenlee Sorry to add even more confusion for you ! I think I already stated back at the beginning, I would always buy from a shop rather than online with an EBike. As tempting as some of those deals are , that Whyte in particular, though I question the 34s instead of 36s which my Rise has , the fact remains it's highly likely you'll have issues within the warranty period unless you are very lucky . Trying to get stuff sorted online can be a ball ache .
The shop where I bought mine was an hour and a half drive each way , that was plenty far enough I had to go back once for the on off switch luckily they swapped it while I waited .
Another time the linkage issue was sorted closer to home lbs working with dealer .
Also did I say I'm not a fan of carbon on an MTB E or otherwise, maybe just personal
Re cadence - the Rise and Bosch SX both work best with high cadence. I think it’s only the big full fats that don’t
Personally I didn’t like the whyte . Very capable bike, but was just like driving a VW car. Does everything you could want but just dull
That Rise H10 is still gvfm
Dont get hung up on SL/Mid/Full fat. Concentrate on battery size and motor power. All components mix around that to make the bike weight. Obvs a 800wh battery weighs 2-3kg more than a 400wh battery
I bought a Gen 3 Levo for me and have no regrets. I would like to get one for the wife next but she definitely doesn't want to ride one that weighs 24-25 kilos, she finds mine a bit scary.
Following this thread and all the options I wonder if that Merida SL SX doesn't tick all the boxes, especially as it appears to be mulletable.
Range wise, I've said this before, if I'm off on a big solo ride I do the first 5 miles without assistance, I don't notice the weight too much until I've used the motor.
I've just had my first ride with a rear Shredda up front and even that didn't feel too bad. I do still ride my non-eebs too.
@oldfart I'd like nothing more than to buy local but the nearest Orbea dealer is around 40 minutes away on the train and they don't have any ST H10s in stock. I'm sure they'd help with any warranty issues though.
I'm like you, prefer alloy frames. I've used carbon bars for years though. I'd just worry too much about any little scratch or scrape on a carbon frame. I appreciate that worry is misplaced though, and that alloy frames can crack too, having cracked the chainstay on SX Trail myself.
@FunkyDunc I guess you get used to whatever motor you have.
I don't see a Whyte in my future.
The Rise offers the most complete package of battery/motor/bike for me I think, and I would happily ride the non e version (Occam).
@mugboo I do still love the idea of a Levo but I think I've come to the realisation that's it more than I need at the moment.
The Merida SL does look like a solid option. As does the Cube AMS One44 that @towzer mentioned. A very nice bike that, and one I was looking at too.
Good idea about doing the first few miles unassisted.
I'll be selling my Roscoe 9 mtb but keeping my gravel bike as I do like putting the miles in on that and scouting new places to ride the mtb.
I would probably have bought that Orange but non removable batteries are deal breaker for me
I would probably have bought that Orange but non removable batteries are deal breaker for me
I'd prefer removable too, but won't rule fixed battery bikes out.
The Orange seems like a great bike from the review, but maybe a little too enduro for me. The head angle crosses post codes 😆
There's pros and cons for removable and non removable batteries. I've had both.
With a removable battery i had a bit of water get into the battery compartment on my old cube ebike. Didn't affect the bike but I was a bit concerned as the battery cover wasn't a great seal against water.
But brilliant to remove if you're putting the bike on a rack or in the boot which makes it easier to lift. The cube was also heavy as the frame needed strengthening due to having a cutout on the downtube to remove the battery.
The battery rattled a bit as well in the frame.
With a non removable battery its completely sealed against the elements and the frame can be made slightly lighter as theres no removable battery so no cutout on the downtube.
You need to decide where you will charge the bike as well. If in the house you may be better with a removable battery.
It's a 5 mile road cycle from my house so great for a blast after work. Probably ideal for a mid power bike to get a few more loops in.
I tend to venture a bit further at the weekends though, to places with a lot more climbing, both trail and fireroads, hence the partial desire for a full power. Aberdeenshire has a lot of stuff to offer. Perhaps that is worth compromising for a more suitable daily driver though.
Even if you ignore all my other advice... Heed this... Buy the bike that best suits the majority of your riding, and compromise on the "occasional" stuff... You'll thank me later!
As I said above, I think that's why the Rise has so much appeal as its almost two bikes in one (for the bigger battery models). I could also grudgingly loose my bottle for a range extender on bigger days out.
Having had a Rise (albeit an earlier Gen1), I had hoped it would be the Jack of all trades whilst being master of none... Truth be told, it was too flimsy/flexible to be much good on the bigger terrain (even when beefed up with a Cascasde link and burlier spec), and it always felt out of its depth far too soon for my tastes. It was the only bike in a long, long time I've been OTB on, and it dumped me OTB more than once too! I know the Gen2 bikes are better, but they're also a touch heavier, and with an alloy frame and 630Wh battery you're up around 22.5kg which really is right into "full fat" territory for a bike that's still IMO quite under-gunned... And it still has the EP801 motor and all its foibles! Don't get me wrong, the EP801 isn't terrible, but it's 5yrs old and things have moved on, and it's still one of the more quirky motors in terms of faults and it does tend to make a bit more noise than most when descending.
My Canyon Neuron OnFly is a much better mid power eBike, with a better chassis and motor (for me, might not be for everyone granted). If I want more range on it, I can attach a 250Wh range extender, albeit I have to sacrifice the on bike bottle storage to do so...
A "full fat" eBike will generally have a stiffer chassis with better geometry than the Rise, which will make it descend much better, and a stronger motor that will make it climb more easily. There's an argument for either when there's 5kg difference between them, but when that gap is only 1.5-2kg because you're comparing an alloy Rise with the 630Wh battery... The Rise is out of the equation for me.
The Bosch SX is starting to sound more appealing too, although I keep reading that it benefits from a higher cadence and I'm not sure how that translates to how I ride as its not something I've ever considered in 30+ years of mountain biking. The "change gear" notification seems useful though!
Think about your equipment and how you've ridden over the years... Are you the kind of person who sits and spins up a climb, or gets out of the saddle and pushes a big gear? Do you pick a 28/30T chainring to your 1x setup so you have the gears to get up every climb seated, or have you fitted a 34/36T chainring as you never used 1st gear with a smaller chainring anyway, and you want the extra top end speed anyway... If the former to both questions, you'll love the SX... If the latter, then you'd hate it!
From the SX bikes I've looked at tonight the Merida e160 SL 6000 stands out. Seems to get great reviews and the Marz shock and fork are meant to perform well. A penny under budget in the sales too. I'll check out reviews for other SX bikes over the weekend.
It does look good I'll admit, and i did consider one for a while before deciding I wanted a touch less travel on a lighter weight eBike myself... Also worth looking at the Mondraker Sly in the same vein... Has an alloy frame and does away with the headset cable routing too! Same geometry and suspension platform as on my Crafty, which is fantastic...
Genuinely though... See if you can get even just a quick ride on a few different bikes, even just to see which motor system you prefer... I'd be surprised if you rode a Bosch CX, SX, Gen3 & 4 Levo's, Avinox, any of the more recent Giant/Yamaha offerings etc. and then came back to buy a bike with a Shimano EP801 fitted... You'll have ideas about geometry, suspension travel and spec you like already I'm sure given your experience, but at least get and try a few eBike motors to get an idea for feel so you can see what you do and don't like there...
Good idea about doing the first few miles unassisted.
You'll find that on a sub 20kg bike with a Bosch SX motor that this is genuinely viable, as long as it's pretty flat anyway. Less so on a heavier full fat bike, but then you've got a larger battery anyway, so swings and roundabouts...
Good luck with whatever you buy!
With a non removable battery its completely sealed against the elements
Sorry but that's not true, my mates Rise had a battery failure which, according to Orbea, was caused by water ingress
Well... drum roll please... I've just ordered a large 2025 Rise LT H10 in black/olive from MTB Monster. Also added shop fitted Invisiframe protection as I regretted not doing it on my current bike when it got scuffed by a Thule clamp.
I could go back and forth between bikes until the cows come home but it was one of the first bikes that made me really want an eMTB and this thread has helped me decide to go for it.
As for charging, the bike will live in my basement, so charged via an extension cable.
I'll post a NBD thread when it arrives 😊
Thanks again for everyone's input, it's been much appreciated! And sorry for the replies I've just missed.
I've just ordered a large 2025 Rise LT H10 in black/olive from MTB Monster.
Great news. That's where my mate bought his rise.
And good decision for the frame wrapping.