[Closed] Hekler and Orange 5 how different are they?

can only relate to the five, and I rode the 2011 one this week. it's pretty slack for a trail bike but climbs well. As far as single pivots go, I'd say your mate has never ridden a five. truly sorted bike both in the slow and the fast-hammer-down-trail sort of way. I guess you could say you need to stay of the brakes a bit more. bit it's sheer simplicity works for me, and the slcakness lets you get away with a bit more..

Your right he has never ridden a 5, he is a magazine expert if you know what I mean.

hecklers are ace, 5's are rubbish and everyones got one

🙂

Obviously I've got a heckler, quite a few mates have 5s but they are all short arses so I've never got to ride a 5 properly to compare. I'd guess there's very little difference.

I can think of exactly 500 good reasons to go for the Santa Cruz over the Orange...

Beat me to it joe or a decent pair of forks!

Not ridden either (other than round a car park) but am a huge fan of single pivots, tell your m8 to stick it up his arse. Single pivots work fine - C'dale Prophet owner, previously a Marin SP and Quad Pivot owner, I know which I liked the best. I have m8's who have both, neither of them are disappointed with their bike.

What I would suggest you look at is the TT length, as I believe the Heckler's is very short, not sure how true that is looking at the info (might be my m8's as his is the 'old' style Heckler).

You've got to love SC UK, this is their Heckler link:
http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/hecker
TO actually get to the page, you need to use..
http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/heckler

Mountain Trax in wokingham have both to demo i think

[img] ?psid=1[/img]

I considered the Prophet, Heckler and Five and bought one of these and am so glad I did.

I demoed the Orange twice but found at 6'2" was awkwardly between the 18" and 20". The M'wood Shova seems to be a little longer in the TT than the 5 and Heckler.

My shova also has continuous gear outers and a front facing seat slot which is a plus as I ride all year (when I can) in usually crappy weather.

I do think that the Heckler is probably smoother looking and less industrial than my shova but I do kinda like the Morewood square and machined look.

Owned both.
The 5 was a great all round bike, but out classed by the heckler. The SC does tech climbing so much better and feels so planted on fast rocky dales decents.
Not to sure about the new 5's angles though, not ridden one yet so won't pass judgement.

I've had a Heckler since 2003 and been very impressed, and actually prefer the more industrial look to the new swoopy version.

2010 Orange 5 owning mate borrowed it last week to do a ride, his comments were that it felt very similar to his 5, albeit shorter top tube and a bit lighter (probably fork selection), very chuckable and climbed well - overall not that different.

I've tried both, they are both excellent both had a similar bottomless suspension feel that a good single pivot gives. Of the too I prefered the Heckler as the tighter angles made it feel a bit more agile through the tighter stuff.

I was looking around for ages for a good S/H Heckler frame in the end I got a Blur LT for £200 cheaper then the Heckler frames were going for.

Had the older 5, and now have the newer Heckler. Five was very good, but had problems with: 1. the shox, (prob all sorted now), 2. the rear shifting - changed frequently - never got to the bottom of this but assumed it was the pull on the outer going via the swing arm, I know ought to be the same as a cable tied one! but it often mis-shifted, and 3. the noise 'the noise' it was not that bad but it often sound like a filing cabinet being dragged down the hill! The new Five does look nice / interesting. And another thing I have seen more cracked Oranges than Santas -thats across all models in both makes.

Overall I do really like the Heckler (more than the old 5), in its roll of all rounder and getting down the odd dh track bike it feels like I have come home. Even so I ride my SS more 🙄

5s downtubes dent much easier than a Hecklers.

Very good prices on the new heckler frames at the minute. I have an 07/08 heckler and love it.

glynP - Member
Your right he has never ridden a 5, [b]he is a magazine expert if you know what I mean. [/b]

I was looking around for ages for a good S/H Heckler frame in the end I got a Blur LT for £200 cheaper then the Heckler frames were going for.

yeah, but my 5 goes down hills faster 😆

Price on new heckler frames are good, but they don't with an RP23 as standard though.

Thanks guys, I had an old Hekler and loved it, I've always had a fancy for a 5 but I'm a short arse and am inbetween a 14" and a 16" They also seem to have very long top tubes thats why the Hekler is better being a little shorter. Just wondered if they rode similar

Haven't tried a Heckler, tried the demo 5 & couldn't think of any reason to try anything else, loved it, ordered it.
But I'm like that with most stuff. Tried a Spesh Enduro Pro yesterday. No likey.

I can think of exactly 500 good reasons to go for the Santa Cruz over the Orange..

+1 and more.

Thanks guys, I had an old Hekler and loved it, I've always had a fancy for a 5 but I'm a short arse and am inbetween a 14" and a 16" They also seem to have very long top tubes thats why the Hekler is better being a little shorter. Just wondered if they rode similar

Even though its not long on paper the 18" Five I had felt VERY long. I rode a 16" Five of a friends and that felt way too short. Can't explain why etc.

I owned an old-shape Heckler too (18") - LOVED IT. Sat in it/like a glove etc etc. Whereas I felt the Five felt 'wierd'. Better riders probably like this sort of thing but for barely-able riders like me probably like the Heckler as well- it felt inspiring and made me feel better as a rider/better than I am. Always a good thing in a frame - flatters a rider.

[i]I can think of exactly 500 good reasons to go for the Santa Cruz over the Orange[/i]
You could start by telling me one of them.

+1 for single pivots.

My personal opinion is that apart from a couple of sizable manufacturers, anything that isnt a single pivot is prob designed as much to avoid patent infringement as is to perform well.

Many will disagree. Im not really convinced or bothered enough to argue about it. However its an opinion Ive formed.

That said single pivots could perhaps of been considered a bit rubbish pre-platform shocks.

what did Donk say..."fives are rubbisg cos everyones got them" ?
"Everyones got them cos they "Luv them "... 😉

& I still don't have a reason (let alone 500) for choosing a Heckler over a 5. 😕

essel..
1 reason = £1
get it?

the five is way better TRAIL BIKE than any other out there, want to be a better rider? then get one without a doupt! 🙂

The price you spanner! £500 difference now sc single pivots have dropped.

Test rode both but bought a 5spot. Both seemed very capable but not for me. Orange very forgiving- a good skill compensator (esp downhill) but a little like a comfy armchair for my tastes. The heckler angles made it feel more responsive on the flatter twisty stuff like the 5spot but the stiffer dw back end won out. Had & raced a single pivot previously and can see the simplicity merits but I think you have to ride a more sophisticated system a few times to truly appreciate it's shortfalls. Then again if you don't ride especially hard (talking power in riding rather than straight line downhill radness) the differences are not so marked.

Maybe you should consider the heckler a better choice if you might consider a superlight as an alternative and the 5 if you actally lust after an alpine.

[i]essel..
1 reason = £1
get it?[/i]

Ah, I see now. How much is a Heckler then, in general? I'm paying £3335.00 for the 5 but seeing as I've recently been left A BIG WAD OF CASH IN AUNT MARGARETS WILL, & my Orange will have 'MADE IN ALIFAX, YORKSHIRE' on the front, I don't actually care (for a change)
Oops, actually It'll be £3435.00, forgot about the new XTR pedals I'm putting on it.
If it was someone else I'd be with envy. 😉

Controversial!

Who is this 'magazine expert' that you speak of, Mr Philips?

Greg.

I'd spend £3.4k on a motorbike.

I looked at both but the head angle looked steeper on the SC compared to 5. I was looking for a bike that gave me more confidence to nail it on downs so tried a 5, loved it an bought it.

I love how it's noisy, industrial and above all love the made in GB badge. It's also full of hope bits from the factory and I couldn't get that with the sc.

Also I would have had to travel miles to get a SC dealer where my Orange came from my LBS.

had a heckler for three years and really liked it...but always felt that I would prefer a slacker head angle...
for this reason I sold it and bought an 2010 orange five (frame)..
fantastic !!
rides really different with the slacker HA and steeper SA...
love it!!

and so far..I don`t miss the bottle opener.... 😀

cant see how anyone would go for the orange when you can get the SC, a Revelation or fox fork and a king headset for the same price. Be interesting to see how common/popular SC become with the new prices-screwed second hand values for previous buyers, mind.

Ha! I didn't realise. AT LAST priced properly.

At last something not at a rip-off price.

mR NOBEERINTHEFRIDGE he has a son who is quick on a downhill bike

I own a Five which I love and bought after testing quite a few competitors and have ridden a mates Heckler quite regularly. They're both great bikes and i love the singe pivot simplicity. Personally I prefer the longer top tube on the Five, I'd probably have to go up a size on the Heckler if I was getting one as it feels very short. Probably just what one's used to though.

That said, if you've ridden a Heckler and like it, then the cost would definitely point to the Heckler - its's just much better value now.

These head angle comparisons are bit meaningless; the heckler is designed for a fork between 140 and 160mm; at 140 it is steepish and an excellent climber, though still very capable on the downhills, while at 160 it is well slack to add bit more extra skill compensation, but noticeably twitchy on the climbs -- basically you can make it match your riding requirements, or just a get Lyric U-turn if you can't make up your mind, the money saved over an O5 will just cover it.

How much difference does 10mm of fork travel make? I've always assumed 10mm per degree rule. Is that true?

having a nice slack bike on the downs is fine if its fast and open, but it makes a bit of a mess if you're riding tight woodsy stuff.

having a nice slack bike on the downs is fine if its fast and open, but it makes a bit of a mess if you're riding tight woodsy stuff

+1.

Heckler is a brilliant all-rounder. I fear they are pricing it low as they have two extra frames in the range now and probably going to phase it out soon.

I might buy one!

You'll not go far wrong with either IMO.

theyve had to restructure their range pricing to fit in the APP bikes, but all theyve done IMHO is make their other bikes look poor value. A Heckler/superlight costs £900, so adding a four inch linkage between swingarm and shock to make a Butcher/Nickel apparently costs 400 quid, and then adding a VPP linkage to that to make a Blur LT costs another 400 quid? I would expect heckler/superlights to fly off the shelves at this price, if I didnt have a Nomad I'd have bought one the day the prices changed!

I used to ride my heckler with a pike, to slacken the HA I changed to a marzocchi all mountain 2..HA was fine then..but climbing was rubbish...
the heckler is a very good frame no question, especially with the "new" price...but with 2 degrees difference on the angles it just rides different in comparison to the five...

mR NOBEERINTHEFRIDGE he has a son who is quick on a downhill bike

Chris, That has taken me by surprise!. Not who I was thinking of!.

How much difference does 10mm of fork travel make? I've always assumed 10mm per degree rule. Is that true?

I think its closer to an inch per degree. In my experience 10mm doesn't make any difference whatsoever.

I love single pivots & had quite a few (orange & Cannondale), but having owned a number of four bars (a couple of Nicolai Helius & a Titus Supermoto) & quad link Marins (wolf ridge & Quake), I've got to say they were all very good bikes with excellent suspension designs that truly work. In my opinion there is so much guff written by certain magazines about the merits or faults of each design that you'd think the world depended on it.

I've test ridden a Heckler only. I back to backed it with a five and bought the Five. The heckler had a slightly slacker set tube and a steeper head angle, and felt a little short in the top tube compared to the Orange. I also felt a little perched. I was a bit saddened because overall it looked nicer, but it just didn't do it for me like the Orange.

Just a word on the new santa cruz's - I had a very good look around the Nickel and Butcher, and the new Heckler, and they were ok, but the finish wasn't as good as they used to be; the paint around the pivot points and around the head tube and seat tube was thin and scabby loking in all cases. I'd recommend having a very good look at the finish of any prospective purchase.

Sorry for the life story.